Why do you reject authority?

[Marymog]

Modern church hierarchy are not the 12 Apostles, nor are they Paul.

These flunkies don't even slightly resemble the 1st century church elders.

Thanks Truther!

My OP never suggested any of those things you said sooooo I don't know what to say!

What I pointed out was that Scripture makes it clear that from the time of Moses to the 12 Apostles religion had hierarchy and rulers with authority. Did that stop when the last Apostle died??

 

[quietthinker]

Hi WOH,

You mean like that???

Do you think The Church with authority established by Christ is no longer on this earth? After the last Apostle died so did Church (singular) authority?

Mary

God's Church is the vast unnumbered throng. His people are planted in all the way-fares of life. They hear the call of the shepherd and know who they follow......a stranger they will flee from.

All choose to whom to pay allegiance. To this end no man can dictate to another.

Coercion in its many forms does not harmonise with the Spirit of God.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi WOH,

You mean like that???

Do you think The Church with authority established by Christ is no longer on this earth? After the last Apostle died so did Church (singular) authority?

Mary

Jesus never gave any authority to any of mens churches, the Usurped it, you know what that means, they stole it.

usurp
/jʊˈzəːp,jʊˈsəːp/
take the place of (someone in a position of power) illegally; supplant.

 

[Marymog]

I think it needs to be made clear that the RCC church is not the church that Christ started 2,000 years ago.

Hi PC,

My OP never said the RCC church is the Church that Christ started sooooooo your point is mute.

My OP showed that from the time of Moses to the 12 Apostles religion had hierarchy with men that had authority given to them by God. Did that authority stop when the last Apostle died?

Curious Mary

 

[quietthinker]

Hi PC,

My OP never said the RCC church is the Church that Christ started sooooooo your point is mute.

My OP showed that from the time of Moses to the 12 Apostles religion had hierarchy with men that had authority given to them by God. Did that authority stop when the last Apostle died?

Curious Mary

Your objective is clear Mm.....and for all who have their eyes open your attempt at corralling is as obvious as a train smash.

 

[Marymog]

Responding to your non-question But included comment...

No One claimed to hate The Church.
No One claimed to agree with you that "The Church" IS Exclusively the catholic church.

No One claimed to reject "Christ's Church" Authority.

Christ identified "His Church" as;

Matt 16
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;

To be clear: Catholics who have been taught, adopt the teaching, and preach their teaching that "the catholic church" IS Christ's Exclusive Church...is a Anti-Scriptural Teaching that is widely Rejected.

To be clear: Jesus' Doctrine IS Revealed IN Scripture, and Expressly Authorized to be Used by Any man, for Knowledge of Jesus' Truth and a Verification Method for ANY Other Doctrine any man proclaims IS Scriptural Authorized Doctrine.

Not a big Secret...Some man-made Churches "make up their own Doctrines" and "Attempt to pass their Doctrines off as Jesus' Doctrine."

...the catholic church is not the only church to do ^ that...but the catholic church IS the most notably famous church "claiming to be Christ's Exclusive Church AND projecting its own madeup doctrine, AS Christ's Doctrine".

It is the Opinion of many...
the catholic IS Not Christ's Exclusive Church.
It is the Opinion of many...
the catholic church doctrines Corrupt and Exceed Christ's Doctrine...

You call those people "Anti-catholic"...
Which in essence is A Hokey Ploy to INFER another person NOT in Agreement with catholic Doctrine...is therefore "Anti-Christ".

It is blatenly Obvious...Protestants do not Agree with catholic doctrines that supersede Christ Jesus' Doctrine OR "mimic" a catholics Ill Behavior of calling catholics "Anti-Protestants"... <--- food for thought to one who projects Christ's Church is Exclusively the catholic church!

• There IS ONE Earthly man God Appointed BY Promise to be "Father" of many Nations.
Exclusively Named Abraham.
Exclusively Identified IN Scripture.

• the catholic church, has a whole "host" of men "according to catholic doctrine" the catholic church "authorizes" to be called "father", in Direct contrast to Scriptural Teaching.

• the catholic church teaches Mary was Excepted from being "naturally born in sin", Yet another Direct contrast to Scriptural Teaching.

• Disagreeing with catholic teachings and catholic doctrines has zero concept of trying to equate being anti-catholic is equal to anti-Christ.

Hi Taken,

My OP showed that from the time of Moses to the 12 Apostles religion had hierarchy with men that had authority given to them by God. Did that authority stop when the last Apostle died?

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus never gave any authority to any of mens churches, the Usurped it, you know what that means, they stole it.

usurp
/jʊˈzəːp,jʊˈsəːp/
take the place of (someone in a position of power) illegally; supplant.

I don’t know that it’s so much that they stole anything from the Lord, maybe the better way to view this is there are people in this world and always have been that need some man to tell them what they think.

 

[Marymog]

Your welcome. But you didn't answer my question. What busyness does the Catholic Church have with persecuting those that are not in their club?

Thanks Backlit,

I don't see that question asked previously. Could you clarify? I thought we were talking about the authority of The Church to ex-communicate someone of which I gave multiple passages from scripture to show they can.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Good morning, Mary!

Your question sounds loaded to me, so I guess the deal is that we don't answer each other's questions.

And a very merry and blessed Christmas to you too!

Hi PW,

Hmmmmm.....OK....All I am asking you to do is have some respect for me and answer my question before you ask me a question.....Seems pretty logical to me!!

Sooooo in the future if I decide one of your questions is loaded I can just ignore it, ignore you and throw a question back at you???? Game on...

Thank you

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi PW,

Hmmmmm.....OK....All I am asking you to do is have some respect for me and answer my question before you ask me a question.....Seems pretty logical to me!!

Sooooo in the future if I decide one of your questions is loaded I can just ignore it, ignore you and throw a question back at you???? Game on...

Thank you

Mary, where were you when I needed you? Instead of you and I going round and round about Christ being the Head of His church, maybe you could address the blatant heresies being promoted in the following thread.

Thank YOU, from the bottom of my heart!

The Wise Men's Star

 

[Marymog]

Yes when Jesus left after choosing the apostles, they didn't know who to choose to fill the empty position, so they cast lots. Acts of the Apostles 1:23-26

Thanks DW,

Ok....sooo your theory is that since the leaders of The Church could not decide who to choose between the two that were put forth as a replacement for Judas that means no one had authority after Jesus died?????? Even though they did promote one of them (Matthias) after praying and asking guidance from the Lord (vs24) soooooo is your theory that the Lord did not answer their prayer and guide them to the right choice???

The point is the leaders of The Church (the Apostles) knew that Judas had to be replaced (see vs 20). They knew they had the responsibility and authority to fulfill that passage from the Book of Psalms to decide who was going to replace Judas....It was not put to a vote of all the church members.

Mary

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,

My OP showed that from the time of Moses to the 12 Apostles religion had hierarchy with men that had authority given to them by God. Did that authority stop when the last Apostle died?

The question is not about men being Appointed authotity within a church but rather men using their Authority to preach and teach in "contrast" to Jesus' teachings and doctrine.

Rejection which "contrasts" Jesus' teaching and doctrine...is What Jesus did...and when a man does what Jesus did ... that man is becoming in Jesus' likeness.

When one agrees with a man's doctrine that "contrasts" Jesus' teaching and doctrine...that one becomes in the likeness of men.

 

[Marymog]

I Take it from the comments and the name, you are RCC. My View is that the RCC is not the God given authority in matters of the church, instead they are nothing more than Nicolaitans, Those who rule over the Laity, and act as a mediator between God and man which they have no authority to do as the Word of God is clear that we have only one mediator Christ Jesus. The Apostles, prophets, teachers and elders of the church are to have authority, but they are not mediators. Jesus said to the disciples you are all brethren, when they started thinking amongst themselves who was the greatest, thus squashing the whole Nicolaitan mindset that you are promoting. Paul says in Ephesians that the fivefold offices are there for the perfecting of the saints at which time those offices will hold no more authority over the person as all will be united in Spirit then, having laid aside the doctrines of men to the Pure doctrine of Christ.

I Encourage you, to do this yourself, to stop looking for men to teach you and seek the teaching of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, If you have him dwelling in you? The Doctrines of men pale in comparison to this.
God bless.

Thank you DH,

My OP laid out from Scripture how from Moses to the 12 Apostles there has always been a church and church leaders with authority over all it's member's. And your response to that is to encourage me to stop looking for men to teach me..... when Scripture teaches opposite of that??? I think I will follow Scripture and not follow your advise.

Do you believe that the Apostles had the authority to tell all the living Christians at that time what they can or can't believe?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

It's interesting how you ask this question 'Why do you reject authority'. It assumes that others do and that you do not. Doesn't it have the smell of arrogance?
Have you considered that it might be yourself who rejects authority....the authority of the scriptures in favour of an authority sanctioned by the tradition of men?

The apostles battled with this type of authority.....an authority which subverts the word of God.

Hi QT,

Ya wanna know what's really interesting???? You didn't even address what I said.....My message was that from Moses to the 12 Apostles there has always been Church leaders who had authority over the members of that Church........You attacked the messenger and not the message!!!

How sad for you....

 

[dev553344]

Thanks DW,

Ok....sooo your theory is that since the leaders of The Church could not decide who to choose between the two that were put forth as a replacement for Judas that means no one had authority after Jesus died?????? Even though they did promote one of them (Matthias) after praying and asking guidance from the Lord (vs24) soooooo is your theory that the Lord did not answer their prayer and guide them to the right choice???

The point is the leaders of The Church (the Apostles) knew that Judas had to be replaced (see vs 20). They knew they had the responsibility and authority to fulfill that passage from the Book of Psalms to decide who was going to replace Judas....It was not put to a vote of all the church members.

Mary

Dunno, it makes me wonder though, Merry Christmas

 

[historyb]

So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?

I don't myself but then again I am not an evangelical. I am under the direct authority of my Priest as a sub deacon and my Bishop than my Patriarch.

 

[Marymog]

No one disputes the authority of Jesus and the apostles and of true pastors/elders/bishops. But there is a question of whether catholic & orthodox bishops are true/genuine christians, and some of their fruits/works/words are not biblical.

The Romans infiltrated and hijacked the leadership as false christians though they were/are not really genuinely real christians. There is no proof that the catholic and orthodox bishops are true apostolic successors. Revelation implies that Rome is the harlot Babylon that mixed Roman and christian. Revelation mentions church infiltrated by Balaam and Jezebel etc.

We were warned of wolves in sheeps clothing (Fabian), and Nicolatines (meaning "victory over laymen"), and not taking the name of the lord in vain, and of false apostles (Revelation 2 letter to Ephesus), and of people who claim Jesus has come or is here or there, the synagogue of Satan (those who claim they are Jews and are not), etc.

Anyone who lies about being a successor of the apostles is obviously ingenuine. And there is evidence if not proof that the popes list is a fake and really matches the emperors list.

Of course the bible does also say christians are to respect secular authorities too but that doesn't mean accepting they have spiritual authority. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". But the bishops don't have secular power/authority only false claimed spiritual authority.

The only bit I can't answer without more research/study and thinking or praying is the Jews obey those who sit in Moses seat.

Thank you Mosheli.

Well thought out response and I appreciate it.

I agree with you that it is undisputable that the Apostles had the authority to tell all other Christians at that time what to believe, practice etc.

Do you believe that authority died when they died?

Curious Mary

 

[quietthinker]

.

 

[mjrhealth]

Thank you Mosheli.

Well thought out response and I appreciate it.

I agree with you that it is undisputable that the Apostles had the authority to tell all other Christians at that time what to believe, practice etc.

Do you believe that authority died when they died?

Curious Mary

If you keep digging a hole in mud all you will ever find is mud.

 

[BarneyFife]

Thanks Backlit,

I don't see that question asked previously. Could you clarify? I thought we were talking about the authority of The Church to ex-communicate someone of which I gave multiple passages from scripture to show they can.

Mary

Hi Mary,

The church does have the authority to censure and remove members. Matthew 18 states this as clearly as can be. However, removal does not constitute divine judgment. Prooftexts have been piled up for centuries to prove the most brazen heresies. The mere fact that there are 40,000 denominations in the Christian church suggests that. I think a person's view of the Bible as a whole is a better way to determine truth. I like Christ's model of the two great commandments upon which the rest of Scripture hangs. I like to start with "God is love."