Why do you reject authority?

[Marymog]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

 

[Michiah-Imla]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

Because Paul the Apostle warned us of this:

Acts 20:30-31 KJVS
[30] ...of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. [31] Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And Jesus said:

Matthew 7:15 KJVS
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 16:6 KJVS
[6] Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

And Peter said:

Acts 5:29 KJVS
[29] ...We ought to obey God rather than men.

It behooves us to search the scriptures to ensure that we do not end up under any false teachings.

And in these last days Christ said:

Matthew 24:11 KJVS
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

 

[Marymog]

And Peter said:

Acts 5:29 KJVS
[29] ...We ought to obey God rather than men.

Hi Michiah-Imla,

Thank you for your response.

Putting your partial quote from Acts into context we see that the Apostles were refusing the demand of the high priest to stop teaching about Jesus after he was crucified. His demands on them had no God given or scriptural authority. So it seems to me your out of context partially quoted passage has NOTHING to do with obeying the authority of The Church.

Furthermore Jesus said to his Apostles: He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me. According to your theory we are not to obey any man! If that were true then why did Jesus say that about obeying men???

Why does scripture say that we are to Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves if we are not to obey men?

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

Because Paul the Apostle warned us of this:

Acts 20:30-31 KJVS
[30] ...of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. [31] Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And Jesus said:

Matthew 7:15 KJVS
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 16:6 KJVS
[6] Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

And Peter said:

Acts 5:29 KJVS
[29] ...We ought to obey God rather than men.

It behooves us to search the scriptures to ensure that we do not end up under any false teachings.

And in these last days Christ said:

Matthew 24:11 KJVS
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Thank you. It is true that there will be false prophets that deceive. Which makes the opposite true; men who are not false prophets that do not deceive and teach sound doctrine (1 Timothy 4:6, Luke 1:4, 1 Timothy 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3, Titus 2:1-7 etc etc).

The men who are not false prophets will be from The Church that has the authority to call out the men who are false prophets. So that brings us right back to a Church with authority (Matthew 18:17). A church that teaches sound doctrine. Have you found that Church?

Mary

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Why do you reject the truth that Jesus Christ ALONE is the head of His body?????

 

[Michiah-Imla]

your out of context partially quoted passage has NOTHING to do with obeying the authority of The Church

It is an example that God is the ultimate authority over man. Any man in leadership must be under the authority of God. Please spare me the “out of context” nonsense. Scripture can be used out of context to prove a point (see Paul’s usage of Habakkuk 1:5 out of context at Acts of the Apostles 13:41).

The men who are not false prophets will be from The Church that has the authority to call out the men who are false prophets

Anyone can set up a “church”.

That does not mean anything.

It’s only a church when it’s members and leaders are under the authority of the word of God.

1 Peter 5:1-3 KJVS
[1] The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; [3] Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

 

[Marymog]

It is an example that God is the ultimate authority over man. Any man in leadership must be under the authority of God. Please spare me the “out of context” nonsense. Scripture can be used out of context to prove a point (see Paul’s usage of Habakkuk 1:5 out of context at Acts of the Apostles 13:41)..

Hi and I agree with you....god is the ultimate authority over man.

How does God project his authority? Thru men guided by the Holy Spirit. Council of Jerusalem and giving to man what the contents of the bible should be is an example of men being infallibly guided by God.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Anyone can set up a “church”.

That does not mean anything.

It’s only a church when it’s members and leaders are under the authority of the word of God.

1 Peter 5:1-3 KJVS
[1] The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; [3] Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

Once again we agree. Any man can set up a church. However if they go against sound doctrine then what is that "church"? It is a church made up of false teachers who itch our ears. Scripture makes it clear that any man that sets up a church that is against sound doctrine is not The Church.

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

How does God project his authority? Thru men guided by the Holy Spirit.

In that case Pope Francis should have been fired a long time ago. Indeed, he should not even have been appointed. But you are so blind that you cannot see that the entire Catholic hierarchy is false. The fact the Marxist/Globalist Francis remains head of the Roman Catholic Church proves that.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?

As long as this “church” is teaching and exhorting sound doctrine I would not reject it’s leadership.

 

[Marymog]

In that case Pope Francis should have been fired a long time ago. Indeed, he should not even have been appointed. But you are so blind that you cannot see that the entire Catholic hierarchy is false. The fact the Marxist/Globalist Francis remains head of the Roman Catholic Church proves that.

Thanks Enoch. We already know you are anti-Catholic.

The question is why do you reject authority not why do you hate The Church so much.

Peace...Mary

 

[Marymog]

As long as this “church” is teaching and exhorting sound doctrine I would not reject it’s leadership.

Once again we agree...


Which church is teaching and exhorting sound doctrine?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Why do you reject the truth that Jesus Christ ALONE is the head of His body?????

Hi PW,

We agree that Jesus is head of His body. He then instructed the Apostles what the Truth is. The Apostles then taught other men that Truth.
He then said whoever rejects you rejects me. When did that Truth stop being taught?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Which church is teaching and exhorting sound doctrine?

I am not aware of one in my parts.

Any in your area?

 

[Marymog]

I am not aware of one in my parts.

Any in your area?

Yes. Perhaps @amadeus is aware of one in his parts?

 

[Enoch111]

The question is why do you reject authority not why do you hate The Church so much.

There is a big difference between legitimate God-appointed authority within the churches, and illegitimate man-appointed authority within Christendom. And the same applies to governments. If criminal Biden can steal the presidency, that will be illegitimate authority.

 

[Marymog]

There is a big difference between legitimate God-appointed authority within the churches, and illegitimate man-appointed authority within Christendom. And the same applies to governments. If criminal Biden can steal the presidency, that will be illegitimate authority.

Soooooo you still haven't answered the question....thanks for your time.

 

[quietthinker]

Soooooo you still haven't answered the question....thanks for your time.

what you're actually insisting on Marymog is that folk dance to the tune of the RCC hierarchy. History tells us that sad story of domination and subjugation by that system. Anyone who is familiar with its history has plenty of reasons to reject the RCC's right to authority......but of course if you want to submit you can do it when and wherever you like.

 

[Brakelite]

the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe,

I fully agree with this statement. Totally. Like a club, for example a surf life saving club. If you don't want to save lives, then the leadership of the club can decide to bounce you because they decide what is members must practice. The question I have for you, what right does the RCC have to dictate what members of other churches believe and be forced to submit to papal authority? If you claim authority of leadership in your church, why cannot others do the same for theirs? Should a surf life saving club dictate what a bridge club should believe and how they ought to conduct their affairs. Neither should a Catholic club dictate to Christians.

So it seems to me your out of context partially quoted passage has NOTHING to do with obeying the authority of The Church.

It has everything to do with obeying authority because of what you quoted here.... Rather than support for your argument, you have successfully argued against yourself...

Furthermore Jesus said to his Apostles: He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me. According to your theory we are not to obey any man! If that were true then why did Jesus say that about obeying men???

One is to obey man only insomuch as he himself is also in subjection to authority. Otherwise we could end up obeying any Tim, Rick, or Larry and follow them over a cliff. Remember the old adage, the blind leading the blind?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi PW,

We agree that Jesus is head of His body. He then instructed the Apostles what the Truth is. The Apostles then taught other men that Truth.
He then said whoever rejects you rejects me. When did that Truth stop being taught?

Then you agree that Jesus Christ shares His position as the ONLY head of His body with no man?