Why do you reject authority?

[Brakelite]

We agree that Jesus is head of His body.

Then you would agree that whatever authority Jesus delegated to His Apostles, it wasn't His authority, for Jesus retains His own authority thus any one and every one else must be in subjection to Christ. If someone claiming to have authority over other men is not in subjection or under authority to Jesus, then that man's authority must be rejected surely. It's false. It's subversive because what he is doing is setting himself as an authority above Christ. Thus he is a false prophet or worse,a false Christ. There is an easy test for discerning who is false and who is true.
To the law and to the testimony. If they do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them . Isaiah 8:20
So question. Has every pope, priest, Bishop, spoken according to the law and to the testimony? I say no. The coercive manner in which the church down through the ages has enforced traditions and beliefs that run contradictory to the Bible testimony and to God commandments is clear evidence to the heretical and apostate nature of Catholicism. Her assumed authority ought to be rejected outright.

 

[tabletalk]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

This image you promote

shows who your god is: a physical object, a wafer.

Your religion walks by sight, not by faith.

And yes, I answered your question.

 

[dev553344]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

The problem is that these leaders are nothing like Moses, Moses talked to God and was a prophet. Do your leaders claim to be prophets or talk to God? The apostles had God (Jesus the Christ) to guide them directly and were therefore prophets and talked to God.

To many people have come to the scriptures and claim that they are interpreters of the scriptures and therefore are qualified to lead people. How many do we have like this on earth now, and how divers are they? Too many false teachers. They are nothing more than interpreters of Scripture and God does not talk to them like the bible points out for spiritual leaders. Communion with God appears to be the main theme in the bible for spiritual leaders is it not? Think about it.

 

[Waiting on him]

Thank you. It is true that there will be false prophets that deceive. Which makes the opposite true; men who are not false prophets that do not deceive and teach sound doctrine (1 Timothy 4:6, Luke 1:4, 1 Timothy 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3, Titus 2:1-7 etc etc).

The men who are not false prophets will be from The Church that has the authority to call out the men who are false prophets. So that brings us right back to a Church with authority (Matthew 18:17). A church that teaches sound doctrine. Have you found that Church?

Mary

Try finding some hens teeth, it’s more likely.

 

[Truther]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

Modern church hierarchy are not the 12 Apostles, nor are they Paul.

These flunkies don't even slightly resemble the 1st century church elders.

 

[101G]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

Addressing the OP, Good topic, there are Good God fearing leader who watch for one's soul, but you have also bad leaders too. the Lord Jesus set the standard for Good Leaders, (that no one would reject), scripture, Matthew 10:5 "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:"

Matthew 10:6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 10:7 "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (primary worth of a good leader).

Matthew 10:8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." (ONE MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT LAST PART AGAIN)

Matthew 10:9 "Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses," (THAT ONE SHOULD BE READ AGAIN ALSO, MAYBE SOME TWICE)

Matthew 10:10 "Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat." (NOW THIS IS TRUE, IF A LEADER IS IN SILK SUITES AND THOSE WHOM HE OR SHE WATCH FOR IN IN RAGE TAG, AND THEIR CHILDREN GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL AND YOUR TO PUBLIC, AND YOU ARE PAYING FOR THAT... NO, BUT YOU'RE THE FOOL. AND THE LEADER EAT STEAKE AND POTATOS, (AT YOUR HOUSE, SOMETIMES), AND YOU AND YOUR FAMILY EAT SOUP? NO. THEY SHOULD EAT THE SAME THING YOU EAT. there is no respecter of pwerson with God. and that inclide a leader also.

Matthew 10:11 "And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.". IF THE WORTHY ONE IS POOR STAY WITH THEM, JESUS DIDN'T SAY WHO WAS THE "RICHES" ADIDE WITH. SO, THE RICH AND FAMOUS, (UNLESS THEY ARE WORTHY?) ARE THE ONLY ONE'S WORTHY? substance, but what about the spirit?

Matthew 10:12 "And when ye come into an house, salute it.". not only greet the dwellers, but BLESS THE WHOLE HOUSE. MAKE IT BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE.

NOW THIS ONE I LIKE,
Matthew 10:13 "And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you." LOVE WORKS BOTH WAYS. DON'T DEMAND CHICKEN BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU LIKE, IF THEY HAVE TURKEY .... GOBBLE, GOBBLE IT DOWN..... (SMILE). AND BE SATISFIED WITH WHAT YOU RECEIVE.

Matthew 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet." BE THEY RICH OR POOR, BOND OR FREE, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR GOD HOLY WORD, LEAVE

Matthew 10:15 "Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

now a leader should reflect his or her follower of the Lord Jesus, (whom the Lord entrust with). the standard that the Lord Jesus set is correct, why have a house falling down and a new car park in the yard? don't make sense.

if a Leader is worthy, then obey, because he or she have your Good interest at heart. scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:24 "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth." (kjv). be the same, by helping one another. no one is better than anyone else, (and certainly not because one is a leader). too much emphasis is put on "wealth", that is monetary, instead of Spiritual wealth.

and as for the "RULE" over you, which rule? God's or the Leader "rule?". don't be a fool either. examine, and question your leaders, and if the leader is found worthy, (according to GOD GOLDEN RULE), there is no reason not to obey. but if a leader goes ouside the bounds of his or her God given role. then as the bible say go to them, if they hear, Good, or vice verse. but if not, get a witness, if no result, then take it to the church.
some, not all, believe they are without reproach , that's a fool's paradise. a worthy Leader is concern for one's, health wealth and soul... Spiritually.

and a side note: Rule don't don't mean to run or dictate another one's life, but to HELP one's life to live for God.

there's a lot to this topic, but as said a good one....

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Truman]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.




So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do


Curious Mary

The congregation of God is built on the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Paul Christensen]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

It all depends on what basis is the authority. The type of authority that is often seen in churches is merely a form of spiritual abuse and control that has the attitude, "I am more important than you so you are to do as I say". It often comes from an arrogant person who by manipulation gets himself into leadership and seeks the pre-eminence over everyone else in order to build up his spiritual "empire".

A pastor of a church told a friend of mine who was in the process of planting a church in that town that "This is my town and I will do all I can to make sure you don't succeed". This is an example of a bullying, controlling, spiritually abusing type of pastor who is not representing Christ, but is exerting his personal authority. I have heard of pastors preventing members from sharing a word in the service, or giving prophecies, because "I am the only one here to do the preaching and prophesying". I have heard of others reprimanding members in public during services and blocking them from partaking in the Lord's Supper. Others have excommunicated members from the pulpit on Sunday morning because they have questioned the pastor on some issue in the church.

Good, sound leadership is based on the fruit of the Spirit and using Scripture as the basis for sound doctrine. A good leader seeks to build up the members in their most holy faith, to encourage them, and to exhort them to come closer to Christ. He celebrates and encourages the members' gifting and gives regular opportunity to ensure that these members bless the people with the particular gifts they have. He sees himself as a part of a ministry team rather than a "one man band" who does all the performing at the front.

My advice to anyone who is confronted with a bullying, controlling pastor in his church is to get out of that church and find another where the leadership is sound and Scriptural and values the members and their gifts. The main reason I become disillusioned with the Charismatic movement and left it, was that I remained too long in a church where some of the leadership were controlling of people and favoured those in the "acceptable" social group while relegating most of the members to being just useless pew sitters. In that church, much gifting that could have been a blessing to others was wasted and allowed to "wither on the vine". This is the result of a controlling leadership that deals in favoritism and discrimination. A leadership that destroys a member's confidence in his or her gifting is exercising inappropriate authority, and if it won't respond to correction by those who are sound in their faith, then member's should quit that church and find a more suitable one down the road.

So, when it seems that godly people are rejecting the "authority" of their church leadership, then one must take a closer look at the leadership itself, and discern what is the motivation for the "authority" that is being exerted. The leadership may be representing a false Jesus that is not the Jesus of the Gospels.

 

[Philip James]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

Hello Mary,

Non serviam has ever been the cry of our enemy.. It is the poison he whispers in our ears, convincing us that our brothers are not worthy enough for us to submit to them...

We see it echoed by Korah here:

and held an assembly against Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD'S congregation?"

And Jude warns us of this here:

Woe to them! They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam's error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah

It is a difficult thing to humble oneself and submit oneself to flawed human beings... Compare with this:

His fellow citizens, however, despised him and sent a delegation after him to announce, 'We do not want this man to be our king.'

If we are not willing to serve the least of our brethren, are we worthy of our calling?

Serviam!!

Merry Christmas!

Peace be with you!

 

[friend of]

I reject all ungodly authority

 

[friend of]

I thought the office of the Pope was supposed to be a lifetime appointment. Why did Benedict leave then? I also heard Francis is going to step down too. So much for being appointment by God.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hello Mary,

Non serviam has ever been the cry of our enemy.. It is the poison he whispers in our ears, convincing us that our brothers are not worthy enough for us to submit to them...

We see it echoed by Korah here:

and held an assembly against Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD'S congregation?"

And Jude warns us of this here:

Woe to them! They followed the way of Cain, abandoned themselves to Balaam's error for the sake of gain, and perished in the rebellion of Korah

It is a difficult thing to humble oneself and submit oneself to flawed human beings... Compare with this:

His fellow citizens, however, despised him and sent a delegation after him to announce, 'We do not want this man to be our king.'

If we are not willing to serve the least of our brethren, are we worthy of our calling?

Serviam!!

Merry Christmas!

Peace be with you!

Real authority has to be earned. If a person says, "I have authority. You must obey me," it means they have no true authority at all. A good leader has proved himself by experience and maturity, and the skill of leadership, having earned the respect of those he works with in the church. The test of a good leader with real authority to perform the role is that the members of the church stay, and not leave. Where you get many people leaving a church through disillusionment or are the victims of abuse, or have groaned under the leadership, it shows that the leadership is incompetent to lead a group of people. People vote with their feet and will not stay with a church where the leadership is domineering and abusive.

The Apostle John had issues with a church leader who "desired the pre-eminence" and who threw members out of the church who supported John's apostleship. John was going to that church to deal with that fellow, probably to put him out of leadership because he could see that the members had no obligation to accept the fellow's usurped authority. There was no doubt that the members would accept John as a true leader in the church because of his Apostleship, having been personally appointed by the risen Christ.

John would never have accepted the leadership of the Pope, because it is obvious that he was apposed to any one person taking overall authority in the church. The design of church leadership was a plural leadership of ruling elders who were able to give solid doctrinal teaching and guidance to the members.

Therefore the type of pyramid leadership with a head rooster right at the top is not known in the New Testament, therefore any pyramid type leadership is contrary to Scripture and therefore a fraud and there is no obligation on members to accept such leadership. It is a counterfeit leadership designed to bring people into bondage to man's authority, turning them away from Christ, who is the true Head of the church.

There has been much harm done to innocent church members through abusive and arrogant leaders who should never have been appointed to the role. It is actually the devil's strategy to destroy a church - manipulate into leadership political appointees who are not God's appointed leaders and who don't meet the Scriptural conditions for leadership in the body of Christ.

 

[Mosheli]

So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?
Curious Mary

No one disputes the authority of Jesus and the apostles and of true pastors/elders/bishops. But there is a question of whether catholic & orthodox bishops are true/genuine christians, and some of their fruits/works/words are not biblical.

The Romans infiltrated and hijacked the leadership as false christians though they were/are not really genuinely real christians. There is no proof that the catholic and orthodox bishops are true apostolic successors. Revelation implies that Rome is the harlot Babylon that mixed Roman and christian. Revelation mentions church infiltrated by Balaam and Jezebel etc.

We were warned of wolves in sheeps clothing (Fabian), and Nicolatines (meaning "victory over laymen"), and not taking the name of the lord in vain, and of false apostles (Revelation 2 letter to Ephesus), and of people who claim Jesus has come or is here or there, the synagogue of Satan (those who claim they are Jews and are not), etc.

Anyone who lies about being a successor of the apostles is obviously ingenuine. And there is evidence if not proof that the popes list is a fake and really matches the emperors list.

Of course the bible does also say christians are to respect secular authorities too but that doesn't mean accepting they have spiritual authority. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's". But the bishops don't have secular power/authority only false claimed spiritual authority.

The only bit I can't answer without more research/study and thinking or praying is the Jews obey those who sit in Moses seat.

 

[Philip James]

Real authority has to be earned

On the contrary, real authority comes from God.
Jesus gave authority to the apostles and the apostles to others.. And tgat authority has bern passed on through the laying on of hands by those with the authority to do so...
So has authority in the Church been passed on from the very beginning...

The Truth is established on the testmony of 2 (or 3) witnesses...

I call the Church in Rome, the Church in Alexandria, and the Church in Constantinople as 2000 year old living witnesses to this Truth..

Where is the 2000 year old Christian community that says otherwise??

Peace be with you!

 

[quietthinker]

God has always given us leaders who we are to obey and who watch out for our souls (Hebrews 13:17). Jesus even makes it clear that the Jews were to obey those that sit on Moses seat (Matthew 23:2-3). If their teaching causes us to stumble or they are a bad example to their flock (sin) He tells us what will happen to them (Malachi 2:7-9, 1 Timothy 5:19-20). Scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers to care for the church of God (Acts20:28) and those who rule over us are worthy of double honor (1Timothy 5:17). Jesus chose 12 men that he revealed the Truth to. Those 12 men were to then go teach others this Truth. Those that were chosen by the Apostles to teach the Truth had to meet certain requirements (1Timothy, Titus) to be elders/overseers of The Church. And what they were taught was to be taught to other reliable men (2 Timothy 2:2). Scripture makes it very clear there is a hierarchy in The Church and that the leaders of The Church decide what all other members of The Church are to believe, practice etc. That is the purpose of some of the letters written to the different churches, to correct “divisions amongst you”, and the purpose of the Council of Jerusalem. I could give multiple other passages from Old and New Testament Scripture that supports Church hierarchy and authority; but you get the point.



So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?



Curious Mary

It's interesting how you ask this question 'Why do you reject authority'. It assumes that others do and that you do not. Doesn't it have the smell of arrogance?
Have you considered that it might be yourself who rejects authority....the authority of the scriptures in favour of an authority sanctioned by the tradition of men?

The apostles battled with this type of authority.....an authority which subverts the word of God.

 

[Paul Christensen]

On the contrary, real authority comes from God.
Jesus gave authority to the apostles and the apostles to others.. And tgat authority has bern passed on through the laying on of hands by those with the authority to do so...
So has authority in the Church been passed on from the very beginning...

The Truth is established on the testmony of 2 (or 3) witnesses...

I call the Church in Rome, the Church in Alexandria, and the Church in Constantinople as 2000 year old living witnesses to this Truth..

Where is the 2000 year old Christian community that says otherwise??

Peace be with you!

If the witnesses are part of a fraudulent cult, then are those witnesses valid? And just because someone gets hands laid on them, who has the authority to lay the hands, and who has the authority to say that God has sent them to commission a person into leadership? If those who commission leaders are part of a cult, is their god the God of the Bible or a figment of their imagination?

I belong to a small Union (Methodist/Presbyterian) church, therefore I respect the minister because he is ordained to his role, and the senior elder because she is chosen by the members. Their role is to ensure that the church is run decently and in order, not to exercise "authority" over members' personal lives.

But I don't subscribe to the authority of any leader in any other church in the city, because I am not a signed up member of them. If they tried to exert authority over me, I would give them the bum's rush, regardless of whether they think that God has appointed them or not.

Anyone can say the Holy Spirit has commissioned them, but that doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit has, in reality, commissioned them. Jesus warned his Apostles that many false prophets are going out in the world. All of these current false teachers, cult leaders, and prophets maintain that God has appointed and sent them.

And just because a church organisation is 2000 years old, it doesn't mean that it has not turned into a fraudulent, paganised cult through the centuries, headed up by a man appointed by a group of corrupt, some homosexual, cardinals. What about a priest who has sexually abused choir boys, or the nun who have been reported as supplying young boys for hire to homosexual priests for sex? Are those homosexual cardinals and priests sent by God, when their conduct and lifestyle is totally contrary to Scripture?

It is old news that the Vatican is rife with blatant homosexuality with gay orgies happening on a regular basis. So if they are the witnesses, then how reliable are they really? Frankly, I wouldn't touch their authority with a barge pole, and even then I would give them a prod and be prepared to run for my life so their corruption and evil doesn't rub off on me.

 

[Philip James]

who has the authority to lay the hands,

Hello Paul,

That is a very good question. In the Church, established by Christ through His apostles, that would be the bishops.

As for others, who have left the Church to establish communities on their own authority Paul says this:

And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

And John says this:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

If we are not in the community of which John speaks, where are we?

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[David H.]

So I ask you: Why do you reject the authority of church leadership? Why do you reject church hierarchy?

I Take it from the comments and the name, you are RCC. My View is that the RCC is not the God given authority in matters of the church, instead they are nothing more than Nicolaitans, Those who rule over the Laity, and act as a mediator between God and man which they have no authority to do as the Word of God is clear that we have only one mediator Christ Jesus. The Apostles, prophets, teachers and elders of the church are to have authority, but they are not mediators. Jesus said to the disciples you are all brethren, when they started thinking amongst themselves who was the greatest, thus squashing the whole Nicolaitan mindset that you are promoting. Paul says in Ephesians that the fivefold offices are there for the perfecting of the saints at which time those offices will hold no more authority over the person as all will be united in Spirit then, having laid aside the doctrines of men to the Pure doctrine of Christ.

I Encourage you, to do this yourself, to stop looking for men to teach you and seek the teaching of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, If you have him dwelling in you? The Doctrines of men pale in comparison to this.
God bless.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hello Paul,

That is a very good question. In the Church, established by Christ through His apostles, that would be the bishops.

As for others, who have left the Church to establish communities on their own authority Paul says this:

And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

And John says this:

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

If we are not in the community of which John speaks, where are we?

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

The true church is made up of all those who have embraced Christ as Saviour and Lord. The religious organisations are not the true church. They are the "scaffolding" that supports the true church. Any organisation that purports to be the Church established by Christ is a fraudulent counterfeit and any representative of it is of man and not of God. The AntiChrist is going to emerge out of the fraudulent religious system. This is because the spirit of AntiChrist is present in the paganised, ceremonial, counterfeit religion that claims to be the Church established by Christ.

 

[Rene Loup]

1 Peter 2:11-25 and Romans 13:1-7 are quite the doozies for Christians distrustful towards the government, especially going as far as threatening to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. It is much better to suffer for doing good (such as being a law-abiding citizen promoting Christ-like virtues, knowing where they're going after death) than to suffer for doing evil (such as riots and armed protests because of election outcomes, further contributing to the hypocritical Christian stereotype).[1] Ultimately, obey human laws while keeping in mind God's Laws, ALL OF IT, not just the ones most compatible with one's own political party.[2] This kind of Christian living, especially in the face of persecution, shows actual FAITH in God's Word.[3]

1. Matthew 26:47-56, 1 Peter 2:18-23, 3:8-22, Romans 12:9-21
2. Luke 20:20-26, Mark 12:13-17, Matthew 22:15-22
3. 2 Corinthians 5:6-10, James 1:2-18, John 14:15-31, 15:18-25, Luke 12:1-12, 12:22-34, Matthew 10:24-33, Revelation 2:10