SinSinSin

[Ferris Bueller]

When Jesus died for me on the Cross.....how many of my sins were in the Future?

Christ will cover the future sin of the person who believes and trusts in him but who has sinned in ignorance or weakness. He will not cover sins for the person who has turned away from him in a decision to sin willfully and deliberately in a rejection of him. You can not have the benefit of a sacrifice that you are not trusting and believing in and have turned away from in unbelief by willfully and deliberately sinning. Christ's intercessory ministry in heaven is only for those believe in him.

 

[BarneyFife]

When Jesus died for me on the Cross.....how many of my sins were in the Future?

All of them. So what. Are you actually suggesting that God's saving grace is regulated by the limitations of an object (time) that He created?

 

[farouk]

Christ will cover the future sin of the person who believes and trusts in him but who has sinned in ignorance or weakness. He will not cover sins for the person who has turned away from him in a decision to sin willfully and deliberately in a rejection of him. You can not have the benefit of a sacrifice that you are not trusting and believing in and have turned away from in unbelief by willfully and deliberately sinning. Christ's intercessory ministry in heaven is only for those believe in him.

Do you think that some people can be saved for a while, and then lost?

I don't think this is what Scripture teaches.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was thinking of the comment about 'free grace': Ephesians 1 speaks of the 'exceeding riches of His grace'. Yes, as Paul says to Titus, we should live soberly, righteously and Godly in the present world'.

If you aren't living righteously in this world you show that you don't have the grace of God that works that in you. BB's theology says that's not true. It says the Bible is wrong about that.

 

[BarneyFife]

There's no human merit being discussed here. Why is not being hypocritical, but obedient always instantly labeled human merit toward earning salvation? Haven't you people heard of the grace of God that teaches you to say 'no' to worldliness and ungodliness?

It's the perpetual straw man of evangelicalism.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There are teachers on you tube that preach both sides of the debate , just as we do here. You think mine are “ scratching ears “ ..... I believe yours is the guilty party. So what ? It’s just you opinion... you have the right to be wrong , and you are....

True, both sides can be found on YouTube.

But I did not get doctrine from them, I got it out of the scriptures. And I never refer people to men: I refer people to the Bible.

Hey man, I don’t know you. And I apologize if I come off in way that’s unappealing. But our souls are at stake here.

Let us search the scriptures so that we can edify one another, not tear each other apart.

Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you think that some people can be saved for a while, and then lost?

I don't think this is what Scripture teaches.

That's a bunny trail. All we need to know is that the person who does not live for Christ in a life changed by the grace of God is showing he does not have the grace of God. If he dies that way he will go to the left and into the fire at the resurrection. That is the known, unmovable truth that is not in dispute. If you have a once saved always saved argument that changes that truth you have a false once saved always saved argument. Go ahead and have whatever once saved always saved argument that you want to have. Just make sure it doesn't violate the hard and fast truths and facts of the Bible that aren't in dispute like BB's does.

 

[farouk]

I pray I am not coming off in a condescending way. I promise, that is not my intent at all.

@Gideons300 I appreciate your posts; they don't seem to me to be condescending at all.

Hope this is proving to be a peaceful holiday period for you and yours.

 

[farouk]

That's a bunny trail. All we need to know is that the person who does not live for Christ in a life changed by the grace of God is showing he does not have the grace of God. If he dies that way he will go to the left and into the fire at the resurrection. That is the known, unmovable plain truth. If you have a once saved always saved argument that changes that truth you have a false once saved always saved argument. Go ahead and have whatever once saved always saved argument that you want to have. Just make sure it doesn't violate the hard and fast truths and facts of the Bible that aren't in dispute.

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8.38-39)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I thought Christ Himself taught Paul when he was caught up to the 3rd heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

We do not know what those unspeakable words were. And I never venture into presumptions.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8.38-39)

Wonderful. This doesn't change the fact that if you arrive at the resurrection having lived a life unchanged by the grace of God you will go into the fire, not into the kingdom. Maybe you just can't see how people have been misusing once saved always saved arguments to make it so a person doesn't have to have a life changed by the grace of God in order for them to really have the grace of God. That's not what the Bible teaches. Born again people have changed lives. BB's false teaching says that's not true. It says unchanged lives can be born again too. That's not what John says.

1 John 3:10
10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child

 

[BarneyFife]

Do you think that some people can be saved for a while, and then lost?

I don't think this is what Scripture teaches.

People are ultimately saved or lost. Period. God knows beforehand what people are going to do throughout their lives and also exactly when they're going to die. So there is no need for people to transition back and forth between saved and lost. But people are judged according to their works of a lifetime. The Bible is clear as a bell on that point. What qualifies a person for redemption (fruits/works meet for repentance) is not the same as what merits them for it (Christ's life, death and resurrection). When it is in the heart to follow Jesus, He accounts to them His own merits entirely. Anything less would be completely insufficient.

 

[ChristisGod]

Speaking of running away, you completely ignored the "next........." thing which, by the way, has nothing to do with "defining words." And pressing a question over and over can be seen as contentious. This is not an isolated incident with you. But, if you don't want to acknowledge that or you don't agree, I won't continue to appeal to your sense of Christian charity. I just like to think we've become a bit friendly, and that you would let me know if I were exhibiting some ill behavior. Forgive me if I've wrongly accused you.

What if it's you who's misunderstanding Scripture? Is that truly impossible? The reason I ask this is that you are easily one of the most confident and verbose members of this board, and radically critical of others.

I’m fishing with my son and brother I’ll check in later

 

[BarneyFife]

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

We do not know what those unspeakable words were. And I never venture into presumptions.

Lawful is very likely a mistranslation. What could Christ peak that is unlawful? The word translated "lawful" can also be translated "possible." And here we go. I have just gone down the KJV-only rabbit hole.

 

[BarneyFife]

I’m fishing with my son and brother I’ll check in later

That 2nd paragraph was meant for another poster--BB1953. Please disregard.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What if it's you who's misunderstanding Scripture? Is that truly impossible? The reason I ask this is that you are easily one of the most confident and verbose members of this board, and radically critical of others.

I’ve said it before —— I could be wrong about everything that I “ think , do ,and say”..... How about you?
It takes intelligence and humility to know and admit that......yes, I could be wrong about Everthing....but if you know and UNDERSTAND your Bible.....you won’t bet against me....lol...
My sincerest prayer to God is to be correct in my Doctrine ....this Site is Holy Ground as far as I am concerned....may God strike me dead and judge me harshly if I come here and teach erroneously ....I pray for both sides here——“ God, if I am wrong and the other Side is correct.....open my eyes and change my heart and allow me to see it. If the other side is wrong and I am correct, grant them the grace to see it also.....I don’t care who is wrong or who is right....this ain’t no game to me.... I want the Truth .....in my heart of hearts , I think I have it. I will continue to preach it . If you sincerely believe that “ you” are correct ......all I can tell you is to do the same.
Sooner or later , I am holding out hope that you guys will come to your senses, admit that BB is SUPREME concerning ALL things Biblical , and my detractors have been deceived idiots all along and that you will get on your knees BEGGING for my Forgiveness! Lol.....I kid! ....I kid! Yuk....yuk....

 

[Michiah-Imla]

And here we go. I have just gone down the KJV-only rabbit hole.

No.

Not KJV-only.

All the inspired words-only.

If Modern translations would use the right text they would be complete Bibles.

But they are missing many inspired scriptures. Not to mention that many are corrupted by modern theology as well.

 

[BarneyFife]

I’ve said it before —— I could be wrong about everything that I “ think , do ,and say”..... How about you?
It takes intelligence and humility to know and admit that......yes, I could be wrong about Everthing....but if you know and UNDERSTAND your Bible.....you won’t bet against me....lol...
My sincerest prayer to God is to be correct in my Doctrine ....this Site is Holy Ground as far as I am concerned....may God strike me dead and judge me harshly if I come here and teach erroneously ....I pray for both sides here——“ God, if I am wrong and the other Side is correct.....open my eyes and change my heart and allow me to see it. If the other side is wrong and I am correct, grant them the grace to see it also.....I don’t care who is wrong or who is right....this ain’t no game to me.... I want the Truth .....in my heart of hearts , I think I have it. I will continue to preach it . If you sincerely believe that “ you” are correct ......all I can tell you is to do the same.
Sooner or later , I am holding out hope that you guys will come to your senses, admit that BB is SUPREME concerning ALL things Biblical , and my detractors have been deceived idiots all along and that you will get on your knees BEGGING for my Forgiveness! Lol.....I kid! ....I kid! Yuk....yuk....

I'm certainly fallible. To say this site is holy ground and then to unleash the amount of levity you have here is somewhat confusing, I must admit.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The word translated "lawful" can also be translated "possible."

By the way, my response did not focus on the word “lawful”.

I’m perplexed why you chose to bring up KJV-onlyism regarding that word. The word translated “lawful” bears no weight here. The “unspeakable” words are the focus here.

 

[BarneyFife]

No.

Not KJV-only.

All the inspired words-only.

If Modern translations would use the right text they would be complete Bibles.

But they are missing many inspired scriptures. Not to mention that many are corrupted by modern theology as well.

Modern translations are not all the same, are they? Young's Literal is actually pre Westcott-Hort.

Wasn't the King James corrupted by Catholic and Anglican Theology?