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theefaith

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KJV Luke 22:25-26
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

KJV Luke 9:51-56
51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

true
 

David H.

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not to mention thousands of catholics killed by Protestants especially in England and by the Huguenots in France
And Freemasons in Mexico in the 20’s and by communists

The Huguenots were defending themselves from the genocide of the Catholic backed Monarchy of France, they were the ones being persecuted, not the Catholics. (Any History book will tell you this) Here is the first thing that popped up in my search, "
NOUN
Huguenots (plural noun)
  1. a French Protestant of the 16th–17th centuries. Largely Calvinist, the Huguenots suffered severe persecution at the hands of the Catholic majority, and many thousands emigrated from France.
Freemasons an communists are of the world, their persecution is expected and is why I quoted the passage from 2 Thessalonians 1 above. The same could be said of the church of England, Much like the Vatican it is a joining of the state to the religion, which always results in persecution, this is why groups such as the Puritans sought the refuge of the New world, and why the founders of this country separated church and state, meaning there is no state religion as per the Constitution. This is why the American People to this day will not vote for a Catholic to be President, because we do not want this merging of state and religion.
 
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theefaith

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The Huguenots were defending themselves from the genocide of the Catholic backed Monarchy of France, they were the ones being persecuted, not the Catholics. (Any History book will tell you this) Here is the first thing that popped up in my search, "
NOUN
Huguenots (plural noun)
  1. a French Protestant of the 16th–17th centuries. Largely Calvinist, the Huguenots suffered severe persecution at the hands of the Catholic majority, and many thousands emigrated from France.
Freemasons an communists are of the world, their persecution is expected and is why I quoted the passage from 2 Thessalonians 1 above. The same could be said of the church of England, Much like the Vatican it is a joining of the state to the religion, which always results in persecution, this is why groups such as the Puritans sought the refuge of the New world, and why the founders of this country separated church and state, meaning there is no state religion as per the Constitution. This is why the American People to this day will not vote for a Catholic to be President, because we do not want this merging of state and religion.

That’s Protestantisms blindness
The French Protestants were persecuting Catholic as we’re american Protestants in the 19th and early 20th cent. Catholic Churches were burned in America and monasteries in france
 

BarneyFife

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mom one can say the state executing justice is murder???

you believe the Bible alone? Where is seperation of church and state in the bible
You're trying to change the subject.
Don't think we don't notice that.


Luke 20
19And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them. 20And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor. 21And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: 22Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? 23But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? 24Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. 25And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. 26And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
 

BarneyFife

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you believe the Bible alone? Where is seperation of church and state in the bible
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
 

BarneyFife

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That’s Protestantisms blindness
The French Protestants were persecuting Catholic as we’re american Protestants in the 19th and early 20th cent. Catholic Churches were burned in America and monasteries in france
So it's not a matter of whether killing for religion is right or wrong; it's just over which religion killed more, is that it?
You are just stumbling all over the place. Make up your mind, already. What are you defending and why?
 
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theefaith

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You're trying to change the subject.
Don't think we don't notice that.


Luke 20
19And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them. 20And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor. 21And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: 22Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? 23But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? 24Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. 25And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. 26And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.

both the church and the state have authority from God, there is nothing about separation?
 

theefaith

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Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”
Of this world no but it is in this world!


Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
 

theefaith

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So it's not a matter of whether killing for religion is right or wrong; it's just over which religion killed more, is that it?
You are just stumbling all over the place. Make up your mind, already. What are you defending and why?

One is justice authorized by God (catholic side) the other of the Protestants is vigilante mob violence or persecution
 

BarneyFife

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Of this world no but it is in this world!


Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
The infiniteness of these passages seems to suggest eternity after Christ's 2nd Coming--not now, and not Catholic with your non-valid popes.
 

theefaith

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Still trying to change the subject.
You advocate Church/State conspired executions.
You're on-the-record.
Own it.

church and state and free speech and free press religious liberty and religious or denominational indifference are also condemned in this encyclical

Quanta Cura
Condemning Current Errors
Pope BI. Pius IX - 1864


“But who, does not see and clearly perceive that human society, when set loose from the bonds of religion and true justice, can have, in truth, no other end than the purpose of obtaining and amassing wealth, and that (society under such circumstances) follows no other law in its actions, except the unchastened desire of ministering to its own pleasure and interests?”
 

David H.

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That’s Protestantisms blindness
The French Protestants were persecuting Catholic as we’re american Protestants in the 19th and early 20th cent. Catholic Churches were burned in America and monasteries in france

Your reading Jesuit propaganda. Last time I checked there is a catholic church in about every town in this country, none of which are being torched by Protestants. If anything, the BLM and the ANTIFA people are torching down churches, and that is not just catholic ones. You, and all Catholics in this country are free to practice their religion, But not their militancy of state religion. The constitution of this country clearly forbids a state religion, and you as a good catholic must live in obedience to the authorities of the nation you abide in as Per Romans 13, and submit to the rule of Law of this country. Are there militant protestants in this country, yes, and I am equally opposed to them as well.

You see, the way I see it is if the country gets more secular and begins to persecute the church, the more the church will thrive and survive, because persecution creates real converts, not country club Christians, and the more the persecution the more the number of saints being produced, and the closer we are to the LORD Jesus returning with his armies to execute judgment on the wicked. Vengeance is not ours, But the LORD's, We are not to avenge the wicked, but to suffer in meekness according to the will of God that through our testimony we may save those who are perishing. Just as the testimony of Stephen led to Paul's redemption.

The following is from Strong's Concordance on the word meek:

Meekness toward God is that disposition of spirit in which we accept His dealings with us as good, and therefore without disputing or resisting. In the OT, the meek are those wholly relying on God rather than their own strength to defend against injustice. Thus, meekness toward evil people means knowing God is permitting the injuries they inflict, that He is using them to purify His elect, and that He will deliver His elect in His time (Isa 41:17, Luk 18:1-8). Gentleness or meekness is the opposite to self-assertiveness and self-interest. It stems from trust in God's goodness and control over the situation. The gentle person is not occupied with self at all. This is a work of the Holy Spirit, not of the human will (Gal 5:23).
G4239 - praus - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV) (blueletterbible.org)

This is the attitude Of Christ Jesus, who said to be meek and lowly, and is how he laid down his life for us, who are were yet sinners and enemies. This is the heart of who the saints are, not the boisterous pompous leaders of the churches of men who live in luxury and have their every whim catered to. Are there Catholic saints? yes, but I bet they are not the ones canonized as such especially by the modern church. Are there Protestant saints? Yes, and many of them died at the hands of the Vatican run governments in Europe. Not to mention the Catholic and the protestant saints killed by the Muslim and other world religions and and secular governments and kings of the world. We as a church fight against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12) That includes the Spiritual wickedness in the Vatican and the Protestant church leadership. All one has to do is use common sense to see this whether it is in the symbolism of those churches or the doctrine that promotes the ancient Babylonian religious systems of Semiramis worship, and the whole Queen of heaven thing. Yes, Mary is the Mother of Christ, yes, she is our mother by adoption as we are fellow heirs and sons of God by adoption as scripture states, but she is not the Queen of heaven for then she would be the bride of Christ which is not Kosher. We, the church, all who are believers are the bride of Christ. Yes, Mary is to be esteemed which is what Protestants do not do enough of, But she is not to be worshipped, or prayed to or any other such thing. the same is true of the saints, No true saint would want to rob the glory from God, and from Christ Jesus.
 
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theefaith

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Still trying to change the subject.
You advocate Church/State conspired executions.
You're on-the-record.
Own it.
I also don’t have a problem with the crusades or the inquisition
Both are justified
That’s not to there were abuses but those who perpetrated them are responsible not the holy church
Like those who persecuted Saint Joan of Arc
 

theefaith

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Your reading Jesuit propaganda. Last time I checked there is a catholic church in about every town in this country, none of which are being torched by Protestants. If anything, the BLM and the ANTIFA people are torching down churches, and that is not just catholic ones. You, and all Catholics in this country are free to practice their religion, But not their militancy of state religion. The constitution of this country clearly forbids a state religion, and you as a good catholic must live in obedience to the authorities of the nation you abide in as Per Romans 13, and submit to the rule of Law of this country. Are there militant protestants in this country, yes, and I am equally opposed to them as well.

You see, the way I see it is if the country gets more secular and begins to persecute the church, the more the church will thrive and survive, because persecution creates real converts, not country club Christians, and the more the persecution the more the number of saints being produced, and the closer we are to the LORD Jesus returning with his armies to execute judgment on the wicked. Vengeance is not ours, But the LORD's, We are not to avenge the wicked, but to suffer in meekness according to the will of God that through our testimony we may save those who are perishing. Just as the testimony of Stephen led to Paul's redemption.

The following is from Strong's Concordance on the word meek:

Meekness toward God is that disposition of spirit in which we accept His dealings with us as good, and therefore without disputing or resisting. In the OT, the meek are those wholly relying on God rather than their own strength to defend against injustice. Thus, meekness toward evil people means knowing God is permitting the injuries they inflict, that He is using them to purify His elect, and that He will deliver His elect in His time (Isa 41:17, Luk 18:1-8). Gentleness or meekness is the opposite to self-assertiveness and self-interest. It stems from trust in God's goodness and control over the situation. The gentle person is not occupied with self at all. This is a work of the Holy Spirit, not of the human will (Gal 5:23).
G4239 - praus - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV) (blueletterbible.org)

This is the attitude Of Christ Jesus, who said to be meek and lowly, and is how he laid down his life for us, who are were yet sinners and enemies. This is the heart of who the saints are, not the boisterous pompous leaders of the churches of men who live in luxury and have their every whim catered to. Are there Catholic saints? yes, but I bet they are not the ones canonized as such especially by the modern church. Are there Protestant saints? Yes, and many of them died at the hands of the Vatican run governments in Europe. Not to mention the Catholic and the protestant saints killed by the Muslim and other world religions and and secular governments and kings of the world. We as a church fight against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12) That includes the Spiritual wickedness in the Vatican and the Protestant church leadership. All one has to do is use common sense to see this whether it is in the symbolism of those churches or the doctrine that promotes the ancient Babylonian religious systems of Semiramis worship, and the whole Queen of heaven thing. Yes, Mary is the Mother of Christ, yes, she is our mother by adoption as we are fellow heirs and sons of God by adoption as scripture states, but she is not the Queen of heaven for then she would be the bride of Christ which is not Kosher. We, the church, all who are believers are the bride of Christ. Yes, Mary is to be esteemed which is what Protestants do not do enough of, But she is not to be worshipped, or prayed to or any other such thing. the same is true of the saints, No true saint would want to rob the glory from God, and from Christ Jesus.
I agree with some of what you say but
Catholic churches were being burned and Catholics persecuted in the 19th cent. And early 20th cent. you can see it dramatized in a film about the life of eliz. Ann Seton who was a convert to Catholicism
 

David H.

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One is justice authorized by God (catholic side) the other of the Protestants is vigilante mob violence or persecution

Mighty left wing of you. When Antifa burned down Washington DC it was called "peaceful protest" when the republicans do it is "insurrection".
This is known as a double standard, and as the old saying goes, if it weren't for double standards the left would have no standards. Does this quote apply to the catholic church as well?
 

David H.

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I agree with some of what you say but
Catholic churches were being burned and Catholics persecuted in the 19th cent. And early 20th cent. you can see it dramatized in a film about the life of eliz. Ann Seton who was a convert to Catholicism

Violence breeds violence. Many of those who perpetrate these sorts of Crimes were victims of the same at the hands of the catholics in their country of origin. Violence in response to violence is condemned as well, that is the point of what I said regarding meekness. I have dealt with this a lot with people who are victims of childhood violence, as this perpetuation of violence has to stop. Many victims of these crimes become perpetrators themselves. Think about that. If the catholic church is the mother of harlots, who are her daughters, Many protestants who in turn fall into the same crimes. This is not an anticatholic point but an anti Nicolaitan point i am making it pervades all of Christendom. We must break that cycle and build a relationship not with Christendom, but with Christ. I Hope I am getting through to you on this.?
 

David H.

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even Barney fife said Americans won’t vote for a catholic. Persecution???

That is not persecution, that is caution, because we know what the catholic church state has done in their history, and do not want to repeat history.
 
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