Are Jehovah’s Witness Christians?

[Marymog]

Good morning MM
When a group such as a church made up of men decides how a scripture is interpreted, isent that individual opinion.
What gives one group authority over another?

Good Morning JB,

A group interprets Scripture = individual opinion??? I don't understand that analogy.....

It is Scripture that gives one group authority over another: Romans 13:1, Hebrews 13:17, Acts 15:6-20, 1 Timothy 5:17, 2 Thess. 3:14, Matthew 23:3

Would you like to share verses that teach opposite?

Bible Study Mary

PS...when I use the word "group" I am speaking about the Elders of The Church!

 

[jaybird]

Good Morning JB,

A group interprets Scripture = individual opinion??? I don't understand that analogy.....

It is Scripture that gives one group authority over another: Romans 13:1, Hebrews 13:17, Acts 15:6-20, 1 Timothy 5:17, 2 Thess. 3:14, Matthew 23:3

Would you like to share verses that teach opposite?

Bible Study Mary

PS...when I use the word "group" I am speaking about the Elders of The Church!

Good morning MM.
How are the elders of a church not a group of individuals?

 

[Marymog]

Good morning MM.
How are the elders of a church not a group of individuals?

Ah ha....I see what your saying. Thank you.

The Apostles were individuals however they made a group decision on what was binding upon all Christians at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:6-20).

Once again: Would you like to share verses that teach opposite (of authority)?

Patient Mary

 

[jaybird]

Ah ha....I see what your saying. Thank you.

The Apostles were individuals however they made a group decision on what was binding upon all Christians at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:6-20).

Once again: Would you like to share verses that teach opposite (of authority)?

Patient Mary

Jesus taught if you seek the Father He we lead you, faith.
We also have the spirit to lead us.

I don't think these things are given for us to force our will on others. They are meant for the individual. If we can't rely on faith and the spirit we are no better off than we were before Jesus got here.

 

[Marymog]

Jesus taught if you seek the Father He we lead you, faith.
We also have the spirit to lead us.

I don't think these things are given for us to force our will on others. They are meant for the individual. If we can't rely on faith and the spirit we are no better off than we were before Jesus got here.

I never suggested and Scripture never suggest that anything will be forced upon others. Scripture makes it clear The Church has authority (refer to the passages I mentioned earlier) ant that there are false teachers and false doctrines. If by your own free will you follow a false teacher who is teaching a false doctrine you are not forced to follow that person.

I see you have no verses to back up your theory......Thank you for your time.

 

[Truther]

According to JW's, a virgin gave birth to an archangel.

This would have it's roots in the serpent seed religion.(angels mating with humans making hybrids). except in this case, God getting involved in the process.

Quite creepy....God turning an angel into a sperm cell to mate with Mary's human egg, creating Michael(Jesus) the hybrid.

Hollywood could run with this script....

 

[101G]

Ah ha....I see what your saying. Thank you.

The Apostles were individuals however they made a group decision on what was binding upon all Christians at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:6-20).

don't mean to get into your conversatation, but the Jerusalem Council was debating a sticking point, and not general church rules. but Learning and being guided in God word is a personal responsibility, (WHEN ONE IS INITIALLY PREACHED TO). example, Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." and God commands the hearer of his word to ... John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:40 "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

again all must adhered to the scriptures, be ye elders or not. now those in a "WORK", and not what we call an OFFICE, but in a "WORK" of God is to help other to understand the scriptures, (this is where elders come in at). and they must have the Holy Ghost first themselves. Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"Ephesians 4:12 "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"

but let me say this, one can have the Holy Ghost and still be in the dark about a matter untill the Holy Spirit enlighten them. case in point, when Peter, the apostle, yes, an apostle, was enlighten when God brought in the Gentiles when he went to captian Cornelius house in Act chapter 10.

this is why that same apostle, yes, the same apostle, said this in Acts 6:3 "Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business." Acts 6:4 "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word." a leader in God's church must always be prayed up and reading/studying God's words. for how can one help another if they need help themselves?. and understand this, not just the Leaders must have the Holy Spirit, likewise the fellow workers also, as well as the Lay member in the church also. but each have a "work" to do. and not all are apostles, prophets, and teachers...ect. but by having the Holy Spirit, one can learn from one another, (Faith to Faith), as well if need be to keep their mouth shut to some things. the Holy Spirit is the controlling factor, if we let him.

as Paul, another apostle, said this, Philippians 3:13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before," Philippians 3:14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." so, just as Paul, an apostle, no one knows eveything about God, (that's why he had 12 apostles, one knew one thing very good, another, another thing, but when they all come together, they knew more together than apart). but if you have the Holy Ghost in you, he will speak for you if you don't know something. and if he don't speak for you, then you don't speak, but seek his gudiance. again, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

and this is one of the problem in the church today, we have too many who think of themselves more highly than he ought to think. some, not all, who are educated, THINK, they know it all. and some who are slick, deceive. and that's how as we speak, cults form. yes, form. and yes, we all has been deceive .... now, or before. and if the deception is in the Leadership that bad, ... worest. for one don't know the TRUTH.
but God always give us a way out of anything, even cults. READ YOUR BIBLE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. for he will guide you in all TRUTH. that's a sure bet. be like those in "Berea" search the scriptures, for this is a command for the Lord Jesus Himself, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.". NOW THAT'S A DIRECT COMMAND FROM GOD HIMSELF. if you go to hell, at least go on your own, and not because of someone else. sorry about that just being plain.

see, we have a responsibility, GET RID OF, OR SWALLOW OUR PRIDE, especially before the fall comes. if one have a LEADER as such, leave... in a hurry.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

I never suggested and Scripture never suggest that anything will be forced upon others. Scripture makes it clear The Church has authority (refer to the passages I mentioned earlier) ant that there are false teachers and false doctrines. If by your own free will you follow a false teacher who is teaching a false doctrine you are not forced to follow that person.

I see you have no verses to back up your theory......Thank you for your time.

If you believe your church has authority and my church does not, my teaching is false and only yours is true, then you are forcing your will on others.
Every church can argue their doctrine with scripture to back it up so posting a scripture does no good. The 2 opposing views will only interpret the scripture 2 different ways.
Unless one of these groups has an angel sent from the heavens they are nothing more than a group of men. I would rather go with the spirit and faith.

 

[sho]

"But we know that the Son of God came and gave us understanding, that we might know the true One; and we are in the true One, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and the eternal life."

The word comes from the spirit. The word was with the spirit and is the spirit.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If you only beget 1 son, is that son you or an individual?

"Only begotten Son" means that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit. He had no human biological father. But spiritually, the pre-incarnate Jesus eternally existed. He emptied himself into Mary's womb. If one does not accept the triune God, then it will be difficult to accept Jesus as God. It is difficult to understand the Trinity, but we are shown this in scripture: "In the beginning Elohim (a plural form of God); at Jesus baptism, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were present and we are told to be baptized in the name of all three. We see a distinction between them. Jesus said, the Father will send you a Comforter, (a Helper, Counselor), Who will glorify Me and teach you all things that I have taught you ... and He said, this Comforter would not come until He ascended. He must go to the Father so the Holy Spirit could come and baptize believers, live in us, while He sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven. 3 persons = 1 God.
A, B, C ... easy as 1, 2, 3 ... do, re, mi, A, B, C, that's easy LOVE can be.

 

[sho]

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, a glory as of one born of the Father) full of grace and truth."

The spirit of God which is the mind of God became flesh, and one has seen the mind of God through the words which came out of the spirit of God. Jesus is the expression and manifestation of God's Spirit.

 

[Truther]

"Only begotten Son" means that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit. He had no human biological father. But spiritually, the pre-incarnate Jesus eternally existed. He emptied himself into Mary's womb. If one does not accept the triune God, then it will be difficult to accept Jesus as God. It is difficult to understand the Trinity, but we are shown this in scripture: "In the beginning Elohim (a plural form of God); at Jesus baptism, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were present and we are told to be baptized in the name of all three. We see a distinction between them. Jesus said, the Father will send you a Comforter, (a Helper, Counselor), Who will glorify Me and teach you all things that I have taught you ... and He said, this Comforter would not come until He ascended. He must go to the Father so the Holy Spirit could come and baptize believers, live in us, while He sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven. 3 persons = 1 God.
A, B, C ... easy as 1, 2, 3 ... do, re, mi, A, B, C, that's easy LOVE can be.

Begotten denotes sexuality.

Mary's sex organs were used by God to produce Jesus, though she felt nothing.

This means her egg cell was fertilized by God(conceive).

Jesus is God's biologically begotten son, not spiritual born son.

Mary did not self fertilize the son of man. It took a fertilize-er.

 

[sho]

Jesus is God's biologically begotten son, not spiritual born son.

Is the son of man man? Is the son of animal animal?

 

[101G]

If you believe your church has authority and my church does not, my teaching is false and only yours is true, then you are forcing your will on others.
Every church can argue their doctrine with scripture to back it up so posting a scripture does no good. The 2 opposing views will only interpret the scripture 2 different ways.
Unless one of these groups has an angel sent from the heavens they are nothing more than a group of men. I would rather go with the spirit and faith.

again, all denominations have some good points, I agree, but if lacking in one point, then it no Good. as sho just said, it is the Spirit that we must follow.... IN ALL THINGS.... yes the Roman Catholic have some good beliefs, but are they correct in all doctrine? no, just as the baptist and any other protestant religions out there.

here is my bottom line. READ YOUR BIBLE, AND LET THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDE YOU, because as said, all religions have some GOOD STRONG POINTS. but if any religion tells you to follow somthing that is not of God, reject it.

and lastly, even in those religions, at least they are preaching christ, even out of envy or strife, and here is where I agree with the apostle, Philippians 1:12 "But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;" Philippians 1:13 "So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;" Philippians 1:14 "And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear." Philippians 1:15 "Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:" Philippians 1:16 "The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:" Philippians 1:17 "But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel." Philippians 1:18 "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." Philippians 1:19 "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,"Philippians 1:20 "According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death."

so I rejoice also, even out a false mouth Christ is preached. and when one get exposed to the word of God then one's eyes will began to open. this is what happen to, I believe in certian doctrines, because this is what I was taught ... first. and when I learned more, then I STARTED TO ASK QUESTIONS.

well, (smile), when you start to ask question, then one will see if what you believed is really true. so again I say... READ YOUR BIBLE, WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS YOUR GUIDE.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Truther]

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, a glory as of one born of the Father) full of grace and truth."

The spirit of God which is the mind of God became flesh, and one has seen the mind of God through the words which came out of the spirit of God. Jesus is the expression and manifestation of God's Spirit.

Rather, the spoken word of God that made all things per John 1:3(per Gen 1) was also made flesh in verse 14.

The word of God is God's voice, not another person.

 

[Truther]

Is the son of man man? Is the son of animal animal?

Yes.

Jesus was the biological son of God and the biological son of man. 2 parents.

 

[Marymog]

If you believe your church has authority and my church does not, my teaching is false and only yours is true, then you are forcing your will on others.
Every church can argue their doctrine with scripture to back it up so posting a scripture does no good. The 2 opposing views will only interpret the scripture 2 different ways.
Unless one of these groups has an angel sent from the heavens they are nothing more than a group of men. I would rather go with the spirit and faith.

HI JB,

Ummmm....I don't get your rational on how me being confident that I have found The Church spoken of in Scripture = forcing my will upon you. That makes no sense to me.

I agree with you that "2 opposing views will only interpret the scripture 2 different ways". That is why we have thousands of different denominations with 2-3 interpretations of the same passage of Scripture with each denomination claiming they have the right interpretation or truth. Hence Confusion reins in Christianity. Who is the author of confusion? This confusion started with the Reformation. Before the reformation there was (in general) One Church with One doctrine and One voice. The Apostles, a group of men, didn't have an "angel sent from the heavens" to make the decision that they did at the Council of Jerusalem that all Christians were bound to follow (Matthew 18:18). They had the Spirit guiding them.

SCENARIO: You felt that you had the Spirit with you on what the Truth is of a passage that you just read in Scripture. Your "truth" differed with another mans "truth" who also felt he had the Spirit with him. Is the Spirit confused or the two of you? Scripture makes it clear that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, the men of The Church, guided by the Spirit, decide what the Truth is and we are to go to The Church to settle our differences. We are to have confidence in our Church leaders and submit to their authority (Hebrews 13:17)!! Which Church would you like to go to that you have confidence in so we can settle this matter between us?

 

[101G]

"Only begotten Son" means that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit. He had no human biological father.

first thanks for that reply, and correct that the Lord Jesus did not any human biological father or mother, but only a surrogate mother who carried that flesh and bone with blood body for him to dwell in.

but one other thing, you're correct in saying that, "that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit.", which is scripture, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

Now a teaching question, is not the one who conceives the Child is called the "Father" of that child? correct..... yes or no?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Truther]

first thanks for that reply, and correct that the Lord Jesus did not any human biological father or mother, but only a surrogate mother who carried that flesh and bone with blood body for him to dwell in.

but one other thing, you're correct in saying that, "that Jesus was the only man ever begotten by the Holy Spirit.", which is scripture, Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

Now a teaching question, is not the one who conceives the Child is called the "Father" of that child? correct..... yes or no?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

So, the son of man, son of David, lion of the tribe of Judah was just a figure of speech?

We should dismiss these titles of Jesus?

 

[101G]

Yes.

Jesus was the biological son of God and the biological son of man. 2 parents.

if so then explain, John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

tell us how he from above have human parents?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"