Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I think what you mean is God CALLS all men, but few answer the call and so are not chosen by God.
Hebrews 10:26-31
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<<I leave it up to the individual>> you're whet behind the ears, young or old, son.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
At this point I don't think I would willingly choose to walk away from the forgiveness I have in Christ. It's too valuable to me. Is there a difficult trial, or deception out there in the future that could cause me to walk away from God and go back to my sins? Maybe. But if I stay strong in faith through continued fellowship with God I will by God's grace be prepared to resist the temptation to walk away and go back to unbelief and my old life of sin.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Persuaded is probably a better word for it. Sometimes weakness persuades me to cave into the temptation to sin. Sometimes ignorance. Sometimes it's unpreparedness.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
The one born of God does not sin as a matter of lifestyle and habit. The saint may sin, but he is not characterized by sin. The unbeliever is. Sin is the modus operandi of the unsaved, un-regenerated person, not the born again saint. The person who 'lives like this' is the person who is condemned as an unbeliever in their lifestyle of fornications, and thefts, and lies, etc.
Galatians 5:19-21
19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, they are indicative of your faith in Christ. A lifestyle of sin, like an unbeliever lives, indicates the absence of faith in Christ.
This, "22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off."
Could you only discover what you are reading!
This is consolation and assurance; not warning and condition!
You see in this threat and damnation; while with Paul's arguments, God, offers kindness and salvation.
This reflects an issue that never will be and cannot ever be resolved between individuals; only between one and all and God only who is mighty to reveal the life, and no condemnation, therein, in this, "the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off." Can't you see, WITHOUT, PROVIDED, God's sternness, the lost will be cut off, lost; but now instead WITH, BECAUSE OF GOD'S PROVISION, is saved forever.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Well I hope that some of you have been looking at the various commentaries and some of them are interesting. But being that some of the most significant parts of Hebrews has remained a mystery for nearly 2000 years, if you look closely they end up, just like so many before them, they end up grasping at straws to come up with their speculations.
I have collected an amalgamation of commentaries to analyze their finer points and to even see how they went wrong. It is just as important to know what paths to go down as it is to know what paths are dead ends. And guys and gals, un-willful sins is a dry hole for explaining the Book of Hebrews. But one thing know for sure that, the author knew and believed in the forgiveness of sins. The mystery is why he felt it necessary to give these stern warnings, and give these stern warnings in such detail. They do collaborate with other verses that I included in my post, so the concept is not entirely unique. But still they stand in what appears to be in stark contradiction of the overall concepts of forgiveness well defined throughout the New Testament. Everything I presented in my post are clues. Post # 329 Please do not waist your time throwing scriptures at it, it is waste of time. There is no reason to try to prove forgiveness of sins through Christ...that is a given. Find out what harmonizes Hebrews with the New Testament concepts of forgiveness.
Another clue; The author of Hebrews like Paul had a Roman father and Hellenistic Jewish mother. He had confidence in himself being educated in the best schools in Alexandria and he knew Paul and Timothy, and was good friends with Priscilla and Aquila. Which is one of the reason that the literary style of Hebrews stands alone.
Parts of assorted commentaries.....
The Epistle to the Hebrews, or Letter to the Hebrews, or in the Greek manuscripts, simply To the Hebrews (Πρὸς Ἑβραίους) is one of the books of the New Testament.
The text does not mention the name of its author, but was traditionally attributed to Paul the Apostle. However, doubt on Pauline authorship in the Roman Church is reported by Eusebius. Modern biblical scholarship considers its authorship unknown, perhaps written in deliberate imitation of the style of Paul. Although the writer's style reflects some characteristics of Paul's writing, there are some differences.
Scholars of Greek consider its writing to be more polished and eloquent than any other book of the New Testament, and "the very carefully composed and studied Greek of Hebrews is not Paul's spontaneous, volatile contextual Greek". The book has earned the reputation of being a masterpiece. It has also been described as an intricate New Testament book. Some scholars believe it was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution. At this time, certain believers were considering turning back to Judaism (the Jewish system of law) to escape being persecuted for accepting Christ as their Saviour, now following this system of grace (saved by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross). The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as mediator between God and humanity.
According to traditional scholarship, the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, following in the footsteps of Paul, argued that Jewish Law, the cornerstone of the beliefs and traditions of the descendants of the founding fathers, had played a legitimate role in the past but was superseded by a new covenant that applies to Gentiles (cf. Rom. 7:1–6; Gal. 3:23–25; Heb. 8, 10). However, a growing number of scholars point that the terms Gentile, Christian and Christianity are not present in the text and posit that Hebrews was written for a Jewish audience, and is best seen as a debate between Jewish followers of Jesus and mainstream Judaism. In tone, and detail, Hebrews goes beyond Paul and attempts a more complex, nuanced, and openly adversarial definition of the relationship. The epistle opens with an exaltation of Jesus as "the radiance of God's glory, the express image of his being, and upholding all things by his powerful word".[1:1–3] The epistle presents Jesus with the titles "pioneer" or "forerunner", "Son" and "Son of God", "priest" and "high priest". The epistle casts Jesus as both exalted Son and high priest, a unique dual Christology.[14]
Brief Summary: The Book of Hebrews addresses three separate groups: believers in Christ, unbelievers who had knowledge of and an intellectual acceptance of the facts of Christ, and unbelievers who were attracted to Christ, but who rejected Him ultimately. It’s important to understand which group is being addressed in which passage. To fail to do so can cause us to draw conclusions inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.
The writer of Hebrews continually makes mention of the superiority of Christ in both His personage and in His ministering work. In the writings of the Old Testament, we understand the rituals and ceremonies of Judaism symbolically pointed to the coming of Messiah. In other words, the rites of Judaism were but shadows of things to come. Hebrews tells us that Christ Jesus is better than anything mere religion has to offer. All the pomp and circumstance of religion pales in comparison to the person, work, and ministry of Christ Jesus. It is the superiority of our Lord Jesus, then, that remains the theme of this eloquently written letter.
Connections: Perhaps nowhere in the New Testament does the Old Testament come into focus more than in the Book of Hebrews, which has as its foundation the Levitical priesthood. The writer to the Hebrews constantly compares the inadequacies of the Old Testament sacrificial system to the perfection and completion in Christ. Where the Old Covenant required continual sacrifices and a once-a-year atonement for sin offered by a human priest, the New Covenant provides a once-for-all sacrifice through Christ (Hebrews 10:10) and direct access to the throne of God for all who are in Him.
Practical Application: Rich in foundational Christian doctrine, the Epistle to the Hebrews also gives us encouraging examples of God’s "faith heroes" who persevered in spite of great difficulties and adverse circumstances (Hebrews 11). These members of God’s Hall of Faith provide overwhelming evidence as to the unconditional surety and absolute reliability of God. Likewise, we can maintain perfect confidence in God’s rich promises, regardless of our circumstances, by meditating upon the rock-solid faithfulness of God’s workings in the lives of His Old Testament saints.
The writer of Hebrews gives ample encouragement to believers, but there are five solemn warnings we must heed. There is the danger of neglect (Hebrews 2:1-4), the danger of unbelief (Hebrews 3:7–4:13), the danger of spiritual immaturity (Hebrews 5:11–6:20), the danger of failing to endure (Hebrews 10:26-39), and the inherent danger of refusing God (Hebrews 12:25-29). And so we find in this crowning masterpiece a great wealth of doctrine, a refreshing spring of encouragement, and a source of sound, practical warnings against slothfulness in our Christian walk. But there is still more, for in Hebrews we find a magnificently rendered portrait of our Lord Jesus Christ—the Author and Finisher of our great salvation (Hebrews 12:2).
I have collected an amalgamation of commentaries to analyze their finer points and to even see how they went wrong. It is just as important to know what paths to go down as it is to know what paths are dead ends. And guys and gals, un-willful sins is a dry hole for explaining the Book of Hebrews. But one thing know for sure that, the author knew and believed in the forgiveness of sins. The mystery is why he felt it necessary to give these stern warnings, and give these stern warnings in such detail. They do collaborate with other verses that I included in my post, so the concept is not entirely unique. But still they stand in what appears to be in stark contradiction of the overall concepts of forgiveness well defined throughout the New Testament. Everything I presented in my post are clues. Post # 329 Please do not waist your time throwing scriptures at it, it is waste of time. There is no reason to try to prove forgiveness of sins through Christ...that is a given. Find out what harmonizes Hebrews with the New Testament concepts of forgiveness.
Another clue; The author of Hebrews like Paul had a Roman father and Hellenistic Jewish mother. He had confidence in himself being educated in the best schools in Alexandria and he knew Paul and Timothy, and was good friends with Priscilla and Aquila. Which is one of the reason that the literary style of Hebrews stands alone.
Parts of assorted commentaries.....
The Epistle to the Hebrews, or Letter to the Hebrews, or in the Greek manuscripts, simply To the Hebrews (Πρὸς Ἑβραίους) is one of the books of the New Testament.
The text does not mention the name of its author, but was traditionally attributed to Paul the Apostle. However, doubt on Pauline authorship in the Roman Church is reported by Eusebius. Modern biblical scholarship considers its authorship unknown, perhaps written in deliberate imitation of the style of Paul. Although the writer's style reflects some characteristics of Paul's writing, there are some differences.
Scholars of Greek consider its writing to be more polished and eloquent than any other book of the New Testament, and "the very carefully composed and studied Greek of Hebrews is not Paul's spontaneous, volatile contextual Greek". The book has earned the reputation of being a masterpiece. It has also been described as an intricate New Testament book. Some scholars believe it was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution. At this time, certain believers were considering turning back to Judaism (the Jewish system of law) to escape being persecuted for accepting Christ as their Saviour, now following this system of grace (saved by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross). The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as mediator between God and humanity.
According to traditional scholarship, the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews, following in the footsteps of Paul, argued that Jewish Law, the cornerstone of the beliefs and traditions of the descendants of the founding fathers, had played a legitimate role in the past but was superseded by a new covenant that applies to Gentiles (cf. Rom. 7:1–6; Gal. 3:23–25; Heb. 8, 10). However, a growing number of scholars point that the terms Gentile, Christian and Christianity are not present in the text and posit that Hebrews was written for a Jewish audience, and is best seen as a debate between Jewish followers of Jesus and mainstream Judaism. In tone, and detail, Hebrews goes beyond Paul and attempts a more complex, nuanced, and openly adversarial definition of the relationship. The epistle opens with an exaltation of Jesus as "the radiance of God's glory, the express image of his being, and upholding all things by his powerful word".[1:1–3] The epistle presents Jesus with the titles "pioneer" or "forerunner", "Son" and "Son of God", "priest" and "high priest". The epistle casts Jesus as both exalted Son and high priest, a unique dual Christology.[14]
Brief Summary: The Book of Hebrews addresses three separate groups: believers in Christ, unbelievers who had knowledge of and an intellectual acceptance of the facts of Christ, and unbelievers who were attracted to Christ, but who rejected Him ultimately. It’s important to understand which group is being addressed in which passage. To fail to do so can cause us to draw conclusions inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.
The writer of Hebrews continually makes mention of the superiority of Christ in both His personage and in His ministering work. In the writings of the Old Testament, we understand the rituals and ceremonies of Judaism symbolically pointed to the coming of Messiah. In other words, the rites of Judaism were but shadows of things to come. Hebrews tells us that Christ Jesus is better than anything mere religion has to offer. All the pomp and circumstance of religion pales in comparison to the person, work, and ministry of Christ Jesus. It is the superiority of our Lord Jesus, then, that remains the theme of this eloquently written letter.
Connections: Perhaps nowhere in the New Testament does the Old Testament come into focus more than in the Book of Hebrews, which has as its foundation the Levitical priesthood. The writer to the Hebrews constantly compares the inadequacies of the Old Testament sacrificial system to the perfection and completion in Christ. Where the Old Covenant required continual sacrifices and a once-a-year atonement for sin offered by a human priest, the New Covenant provides a once-for-all sacrifice through Christ (Hebrews 10:10) and direct access to the throne of God for all who are in Him.
Practical Application: Rich in foundational Christian doctrine, the Epistle to the Hebrews also gives us encouraging examples of God’s "faith heroes" who persevered in spite of great difficulties and adverse circumstances (Hebrews 11). These members of God’s Hall of Faith provide overwhelming evidence as to the unconditional surety and absolute reliability of God. Likewise, we can maintain perfect confidence in God’s rich promises, regardless of our circumstances, by meditating upon the rock-solid faithfulness of God’s workings in the lives of His Old Testament saints.
The writer of Hebrews gives ample encouragement to believers, but there are five solemn warnings we must heed. There is the danger of neglect (Hebrews 2:1-4), the danger of unbelief (Hebrews 3:7–4:13), the danger of spiritual immaturity (Hebrews 5:11–6:20), the danger of failing to endure (Hebrews 10:26-39), and the inherent danger of refusing God (Hebrews 12:25-29). And so we find in this crowning masterpiece a great wealth of doctrine, a refreshing spring of encouragement, and a source of sound, practical warnings against slothfulness in our Christian walk. But there is still more, for in Hebrews we find a magnificently rendered portrait of our Lord Jesus Christ—the Author and Finisher of our great salvation (Hebrews 12:2).
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Who? The publican in the parable of Luke 18:9-14? I think not.
For the publican was at the altar, seeking the Lord.
I have not sinned willfully since receiving the second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15) of entire sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv)).
I would also say that 1 John 3:9 is hyperbole; it is exaggeration to make the point that if a man is truly born again, his life is going to change. Even as it is written,
Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
The law is written in the heart and mind of New Covenant believers; simply in that the love of the Lord is shed abroad in their hearts (Romans 5:5) and that this love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within them (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).
There is no law that will go against our behaviour if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).
It should be clear that the Old Testament is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).
We did have the other option; we just weren't inclined to walk in it.
Provided it is my attitude that I hate sin. If it is my attitude that I love sin, then such verses as Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, and Romans 7:6 do not apply to me.
I would simply point out that anti-semitism doesn't become you.
It is written,
Rom 11:26, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27, For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
That is disputable.
In Luke 8:13, there appears to be a genuine faith in the people mentioned, and yet they fall away because of temptation.
It should be clear in James 1:12-16 that a person who is spiritually alive can die spiritually because of letting sin become fully-grown in their lives.
Good question.
Believers who have a shallow, lukewarm, or nominal faith can indeed fall away (Luke 8:13).
However, those who have a genuine heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) have everlasting life (John 6:47)...that is, life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal life rather than everlasting life.
See Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9.
See Ezekiel 33:11-20. It seems to tell us that we can go in and out of righteousness / salvation.
He may save a man from his sins, knowing that that man will not endure unto the end. If He didn't deliver that man in the first place because He knew that if He did, the man would blow it later and lose everything, the devil might accuse God and say that He never gave that man a chance.
Now the blood atonement does not only justify (as per Romans 5:9)...it also sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7)...
And therefore if someone thinks that their sins are resolved by the blood atonement, but are continuing in their lifestyle of sinning, they are badly deceived/mistaken.
Demas was restored to faith as a prodigal son later...
But even as with the prodigal, if you look at the parable carefully, the prodigal, while he was away from his father, was both dead and lost.
That is also disputable. See John 3:5, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:12, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27.
See Romans 11:20-22; which teaches us that if we do not continue in His goodness, we will be cut off.
gnosticism.
:)
Actually, there are those who place their trust in their works rather than in faith in Christ; whose works will not give genuine assurance that they have been elected and called to salvation. Because their faith is not in Christ; but in their works.
Where?
:)
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Perhaps for the entire book; but it has significance when discussing Hebrews 10:26-31.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Mat 5:10, Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11, Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12, Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Gal 4:29, But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The book of Hebrews almost has a history of its own. Some of the best names in Christianity has wrestled with its meaning but could not keep from being in awe of it. Frustration...
I agree.
To the Christian, sin is a thing of the past and a defeated enemy and so is death. Christ took care of that for him.
While the Christian have the power to overcome sin, it is not for anything else but to not sin when temptation comes. It is not like he has to look for sins to conquer. He had been set free from sin. Christ took care of that for him. So, he must have nothing to do with sin anymore.
Sin dwelled in the flesh since the fall of Adam and it will be there until our flesh turns to dust and is no more. We can’t do much about that. But Christ will take care of that as well at the resurrection. Until then, our mind must be on the Spirit of God who dwells in us and not on sin that dwells in our flesh.
So, the Christian now has everything to do with righteousness. That his concern, eyes, mind, and heart now is on doing the good works God had prepared in advance for him to do.
Look into what is in the new covenant and you will find that what I said could be found there among a lot lot more. Here’s one. In the old, it is much much about what the covenant people should do ~ works of man. Man failed. In the new, it is much much about what God will do ~ works of God. God will not fail. I know you know what that means.
Tong
R1488
I agree with your thoughts there.
Our present reality is while we are no longer of this world, we are still in this world. Though we are freed from sin, we are still in the body of flesh where sin still dwells. What Christian is not eagerly waiting for the second coming of His Lord to finally be taken out from this world and from this body of death?
<<<Perhaps the difference between our experience of intentional and unintentional sin has more to do with our knowledge of what sin is, and our self-awareness.>>>
My thoughts too.
Somehow, I think, that goes back to the very beginning, the matter of having the knowledge of good and evil and the desires of the flesh.
Tong
R1489
It is clear to me now that you believe that a genuine child of God can stop believing in God and can reject Jesus Christ. And that you believe that it is possible for them to believe again and accept Christ again. Thanks, I won’t be guessing any longer.
Mine is that a genuine child of God will not ever want to stop and will not ever stop believing and will not ever want to reject and will not ever reject Christ. And that the matter of repentance unto God and towards faith in Jesus Christ is a matter not for the genuine child of God, but for those who are yet to be born of God.
Tong
R1490
Paul isn’t Jesus Christ. He knows not the heart of others. He may have thoughts about one’s heart but not for certain. So, he knows not with certainty whether one’s faith is genuine or not. In the same way he preached to all people, knowing not who will believe nor who will genuinely believe or not, he tried to win back all. My point is that, it does not follow that because he tried to win them all back that he knew that they all were genuine believers. Nor that it is conclusive that they are all genuine believers. In fact, if there is any conclusion that may be drawn from their falling away is to the contrary, in my point of view. For this is what John said of those who went out from the church, such as he calls as antiChrists, that “they went out from us but they were not of us; if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” (1 John 2:18-19). So, if any one who calls himself a Christian or a brethren, but later reject Christ, is not a genuine Christian and brethren.
Tong
R1491
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