Latter Rain
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is God and does not change. I know hundreds of people who believe in the latter rain doctrine. And I can guarantee that none of them believe that the Holy Spirit Who was poured out at Pentecost is somehow different than we receive now. The Holy Spirit is poured out in the measure that men will accept Him. He will not force Himself upon any. The difference in the power seen today is that it is that which has been given to folks who feel little need of Him. It will take persecution to cause those who live in developed countries to plead for Him earnestly. Those who feel no need will not plead. Those who feel little need will little plead. If you believe that God pours out His Spirit upon all believers in the same measure regardless of their desire for Him, then that is your prerogative. But to claim that those who believe otherwise believe that God changes is an unfair, straw man argument.
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Exactly
Mark 6
4But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. 6And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
@marks
I know this is liable to push a button but I can't shake this nagging notion that your belief in eternal security isn't coloring your judgment regarding this issue. Eternal security is an all-or-nothing doctrine. And early/former and latter rain theology is anything but.
I know this is liable to push a button but I can't shake this nagging notion that your belief in eternal security isn't coloring your judgment regarding this issue. Eternal security is an all-or-nothing doctrine. And early/former and latter rain theology is anything but.
BF,
I disagree with this claim. Eternal security and whether one believes in it or not is a question of belief and unbelief. Not the belief that salvation comes from, but the belief in the providence of God that allows us to enter the Promised land. It is the same for the Latter rain. Teaching that eteranl security is a doctrine we agree to mentally does not cut it, I believe this is why God put all the scriptures in the Word of God that support conditional security, so as to force us to walk through the valley of doubt that we may reach the blessed assurance that comes from Knowing Him and his promises. Thus eternal security is not a doctrine that can be taught but must be lived through. This is where some churches, fundamentalists primarily get it wrong, they deny the individual the experience of the journey of faith by giving their members the doctrines as mental acknowledgement rather than relational experiences of our walk with Christ. That is why I stress that faith is a journey...
The power to overcome for one...the opening of our eyes to see what was hidden until the appointed time....manifesting His Word with signs and wonders following as the Apostles did...
Just to name a few...
Edit: just my humble opinion...this last outpouring will be far greater the latter rain...this one will be of His Glory and Fire!
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Warning of "the" Last days.
Jesus came in "those" last days with a better testament.
The better Testament has been traveling the globe for 2,000+ years.
Heb 1:
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
2Tim 3:
[1] This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Pet 3:
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts...
Acts 2:
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
All Flesh? Living? Dead? All?
All are raised, some to glory, some to Damnation....yet All will acknowledge bend and bow to the Visibly seen, (the Son of Man) (Jesus) the World of God, Son of God, (Lord).
Isa 45:
[23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Glory to God,
Taken
My question is, doesn't God do these things in us now?
Don't we already have the power to overcome? To show us what we should see?
Much love!
It says in scripture that He will heal their backsliding....
I think there are people blinded and bound up by false doctrine and religious ideology that is a stronghold in their life...He will open their eyes to see the truth and overcome the legalism of their beliefs.
The thing I don't understand . . . isn't God doing that for His children now?
Although . . . I've got to say . . . there seems to be a real resistance in some people to letting go of their legalism!
Much love!
All I can say is that His church will be in one mind and one accord in unity of the same faith.
For the most part I agree with what you are saying here.
What you are describing is a process I see already in many parts of the world, and through history.
I do happen to think that God is more in control of our relationship with Him, and our spiritual development than we are. Kind of like a parent overseeing their small child's education. Certain things the parent may leave up to the child, but the parents, if they are good parents, will still see to it that their child is educated.
The thing that I am wanting to discuss is that these things, persecution so that we cry out to God, are already happening now, they have been, they will continue to, and this quite apart from the Latter Rain doctrine.
We don't need a Latter Rain so that we will be made perfect through suffering, that's already being done.
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Good post, Mark, as I've come to expect from you. I think we're starting to get closer in thought. I guess the only thing I would add is that the true and valid persecution we see now world-wide is going to get so much worse so quickly that the world is going to get a glimpse of the Glory of God such as never has been seen before. The label of "latter rain" is not nearly as important as the event itself. And although it will be extraordinary, it will also happen naturally, perhaps almost organically, so to speak, given the circumstances. :)
This is more in line with my thinking.
Should a large group of believers be in persecution, or other affliction, and receive the increase in the inner man, all at the same time, maybe that would look like a Latter Rain, and, at the end of the day, whether upon the individual, or on the church, Let it rain!
Yeah, maybe this frames the thought well!
Much love!
Aye our God does not change. As to any man who believes that the Holy Spirit is somehow less capable than He was previously... such a man needs to look at himself more carefully and those around him.
When I was a boy in the 1940's and the 1950's, people only went to the medical doctor as a last resort for various reasons not all of them good ones. But many people did pray and talk to God about their illnesses and other hurts first. Not everyone prayed like that then, but today it seems to me that it is the unusual person, bearing the label of Christian, who will pray first and call on the elders of the Church to pray, before contacting his physician for help.
I don't discount all the physicians, but I definitely cry out against anyone who claims to be always on the Lord's side who always contacts his physicians, the M.D, first and perhaps never does call out to God unless he is told that the physicians are definitely unable to help at all. God is their last resort? Should He not should be the first One we turn when we are in need? How many recall these words penned by James?
"Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." James 5:14-15
And remember also what Jesus said...
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8
Yet in another verse James tells us what too often happens:
"...ye have not, because ye ask not." James 4:2
The power of God is Not diminished. It is men who have effectively failed to trust Him or have not not even bothered to ask Him. With such a lack of faith in Him... how do some of these suppose and even insist that they have called on His name and they have already been given their ticket to be with Him always? How many them will be hearing these words?
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:22-23
Selective service to God? According to their faith be it unto them!
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1
When we are unwilling to give what is 'reasonable' what should we expect to see from God?
And if the time of the latter rain is now, today?
"Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice." Phil 4:4
"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
How long should children remain children?
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14
Amen...I am not quite sure if you are presenting an argument to my post or adding to it in addition to mine...and what I am referring to is an even greater outpouring....His consuming fire...and His Glory...and we will be changed from glory to glory...
That's what I see in my spirit anyway and am highly anticipating it.
In 1948, a “revival” broke out in Saskatchewan, Canada, and the teachings of the Latter Rain movement were clarified. Those involved in the revival were convinced that they were on the verge of a new era, one in which the Holy Spirit would demonstrate His power in a greater way than the world had ever seen. Not even the age of the apostles, they said, had witnessed such a movement of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 3:16 KJV: John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
The Spirit without measure is the fire:
Zechariah 2:5 KJV: For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
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