Latter Rain

[Billy Evmur]

I can't help but think of Joshua and Caleb, how different they were to the other spies

But they didn't march into the promised land regardless of what the rest of Israel said or did, they marched back into the wilderness for another 40 long years .. their hearts must have ached. We must stay with the church.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The thing I'm talking about here is that I believe my relationship with God is boundless, and certainly is not limited by someone else's faltering faith.

I'm not necessarily saying you are limited, or me, or anyone else for that matter. But I'm saying you will not be experiencing true NT Christianity if you are operating in spiritual gifts on an island. It was supposed to be a corporate experience, a "fellowship" or "shared experience" of the Spirit, as it were.

Is it truly fair to say, since I've never raised someone who had died, that this is because I've not received the Second Outpouring?

No. I have received the second outpouring, and I have yet to do such a thing. All I'm saying is, the church as a whole is not what it should be or WAS until we are again operating in the same things they were, and more than that.

What if that were true for the entire true church at this time? That God is doing something different?

Ick! Here's where we strongly disagree. I do not believe that the church today is not moving in the power of God to manifest His works because it is not His will. I believe it is because the church is by and large in a deplorable state spiritually. You may disagree with that, but I think you would be in the minority.

What if we still have the full power and the full potential given by the Holy Spirit to the disciples of that day, in us? What if all that is needed is that each of us mature into to works God has for us?

We can attain to greater gifts just like they did, through prayer (1 Corinthians 12:31, 1 Corinthians 14:1). The problem is, we are not doing so, and that is precisely my point.

 

[Hidden In Him]

He also walked on water, and was transfigured before their eyes. He raised Himself from the dead. Who does that?

Ah, but Peter also walked on water, and if Peter can then why would it be impossible for someone else to in Christ. The transfiguration is unique to Christ, but then translocation is something the saints participated in as well. And Christ didn't actually raise Himself from the dead. Scripture says the Father raised Him (Romans 8:11).

Do we raise the dead when we want, or when He wants? When He wants, naturally! When does He want?

When He wants, but He desires to have vessels thru whom He may do so, as a witness to His power and Divinity. And that's the issue. How many are fully preparing themselves to be such vessels? There is temptation that comes with such power, as the temptation of Christ demonstrated.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When the Church is "of one accord" there is Power there.

These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
(Act 1:14)
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Acts 2:1)
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (Acts 2:46)
And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: (Acts 4:24)
And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. (Acts 5;12)
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. (Philippians 2:2)

Whatever the latter rain is, it is tied intricately to being of one accord and of singleness of heart.

Amen, and that will happen when they increasingly become led of the Spirit. When all are submitted to the leadership of the Head, the body will respond to His every leading and be filled with His Spirit to overflowing. They will increasingly become of one mind and one will, and walk in one accord and singleness of heart.

Good word, brother, and I knew you were a winner when you first showed up.

 

[marks]

Ah, but Peter also walked on water, and if Peter can then why would it be impossible for someone else to in Christ.

You are right of course about this.

but then translocation is something the saints participated in as well.

In the case of Philip, this was something God did to him, unlike when Peter walked on water.

And Christ didn't actually raise Himself from the dead. Scripture says the Father raised Him

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

When He wants, but He desires to have vessels thru whom He may do so, as a witness to His power and Divinity. And that's the issue. How many are fully preparing themselves to be such vessels? There is temptation that comes with such power, as the temptation of Christ demonstrated.

I don't discount the church today as so many do. I differentiate between the true and the false, but Jesus works in His people right now, and through them right now.

I don't buy into, "The Church has failed". There is testing and tempation with anything. And the same faith overcomes all.

But this world is going down in flames, deluded and deceived under the lying signs and wonders that will lead the world to follow the beast.

I'm not necessarily saying you are limited, or me, or anyone else for that matter. But I'm saying you will not be experiencing true NT Christianity if you are operating in spiritual gifts on an island. It was supposed to be a corporate experience, a "fellowship" or "shared experience" of the Spirit, as it were.

OK, but we're not on islands.

No. I have received the second outpouring,

How do you know this if you aren't raising the dead? Isn't that the point of outpouring? All the signs miracles?

Ick! Here's where we strongly disagree. I do not believe that the church today is not moving in the power of God to manifest His works because it is not His will. I believe it is because the church is by and large in a deplorable state spiritually. You may disagree with that, but I think you would be in the minority.

Again, I differentiate between the false and the true, and I will not malign nor impugn Jesus' ability to complete the good work in us that He does.

You seem to have the idea of a God Who is not able to work with His children, able to train them in righteousness and holiness.

"Unresting, unhasting and silent as night,
Nor wanting, nor wasting He ruleth in light"

That says a lot to me about how God works in His people. I suggest we begin to trust in His workmanship in us, that we will walk in the works He's prepared, even if they are not signs and wonders.

The problem is, we are not doing so, and that is precisely my point.

We who? Who is this group you speak for? Why the assumption we are all failures? Except you, who have received the 'Second Pentecost'. I thought the idea was everyone would at once, no?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

In the case of Philip, this was something God did to him, unlike when Peter walked on water.

Mmmm... iffy differentiation. By the leading of the Lord, Peter walked on water. It was not simply a self-motivated act. As such, Philip was also moving in the Spirit in ministry when he was translocated. Hard to differentiate either as not "walking by the Spirit," and hence following His leading.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

LoL. Ok, then it just serves as another proof that Jesus and the Father are One, since Romans 8:11 says it was the Father who raised Him up : )

I don't discount the church today as so many do. I differentiate between the true and the false, but Jesus works in His people right now, and through them right now.

I don't buy into, "The Church has failed".

That's not really what I'm saying, though. My belief is that the church is caught up in superficiality in out time, and is not truly spiritually rich in any sense of the word because of it, though assuming she is. But that doesn't mean she will stay this way forever. "The church has failed" seems to have some sort of finality to it. I certainly don't believe that for an instant.

OK, but we're not on islands.

Mmmm... I think we are too fragmented, and those who walk in genuine supernatural gifts at the present time are too few and far between.

How do you know this if you aren't raising the dead? Isn't that the point of outpouring? All the signs miracles?

I'm referring to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, LoL. Something tells me that that may start an old argument all over again, but I'm simply saying that the outpouring will result in many being again baptized in the Holy Spirit, and powerfully.

Again, I differentiate between the false and the true, and I will not malign nor impugn Jesus' ability to complete the good work in us that He does.

Again, not saying that. But I am saying that the vessels are not properly prepared.

That says a lot to me about how God works in His people. I suggest we begin to trust in His workmanship in us, that we will walk in the works He's prepared, even if they are not signs and wonders.

Ah, but we cannot simply be satisfied. To me that has been part of the whole problem. When it says "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness," it implies there must be a thirst for it. If there is no thirst and there is no pleading with God, it will not come. It is not a matter of God not wanting it for us. It is a matter of us not wanting it badly enough to accept the responsibility, and be ready and prepared to handle it when it comes.

Let's risk using an analogy: A car is a great responsibility, especially a nice one that can reach high speeds. If a father had all the money in the world and wanted his son to have a beautiful sports car, nevertheless he would not give it to him until he was convinced the son wasn't going to do serious harm to himself and/or others once he received it. Likewise the church has not yet come to that place where they could be entrusted with great power. We have ministers sticking their hand out and saying, "Thus sayeth the Lord. Pay me" just because they are a little charismatic and can entertain people superficially for 45 minutes and call it "preaching." Imagine what many would do if they could heal the sick and raise the dead?

We who? Who is this group you speak for? Why the assumption we are all failures?

Ah, come on. You gotta get off of thinking I am saying we are all "failures." I think people are doing their best in many ways at the current time. But I am especially not pleased with the leadership of the church. I mean, I can turn on the television and watch some local guy preach a message and just be astonished at how inaccurate he is in teaching the scriptures, yet no one seems to know the difference. I have hope for the future generations - at least those who will have the courage to keep standing for the truth in the face of increasing hatred and opposition - and that is what my eyes are on. As for us today, we should be seeking to prepare the way for them by what we teach and how well we did with what has been given to us.

 

[marks]

Mmmm... iffy differentiation. By the leading of the Lord, Peter walked on water. It was not simply a self-motivated act. As such, Philip was also moving in the Spirit in ministry when he was translocated. Hard to differentiate either as not "walking by the Spirit," and hence following His leading.

Peter got out of the boat as an act responding to Jesus' command. I think that was what Peter wanted, knowing, if Jesus told him to, he could.

Concerning Philip,

Acts 8:39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing."

In the case of Peter, we're told that he did this. In the case of Philip we're told that the Spirit of the Lord did this.

These are the things I pay attention to.

LoL. Ok, then it just serves as another proof that Jesus and the Father are One, since Romans 8:11 says it was the Father who raised Him up : )

Just so!

Ah, but we cannot simply be satisfied.

I suggest finding satisfaction in a daily walk communing with Jesus. Daily communing with Jesus will fulfill our heart's desires, more than we imagine, and will also lead us into all good works.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,"

For they will be filled! With righteousness!

It is a matter of us not wanting it badly enough to accept the responsibility, and be ready and prepared to handle it when it comes.

I assure you my brother that in seeking Jesus above all else, you will find all else too!

But again, I differentiate between the true and the false church. There is so much false around! But if we know the Word, and just stay with what it says, we'll be OK.

I think people are doing their best in many ways at the current time.

Yet still falling oh so far short.

The thing is . . . there is so much in the Bible along the lines of, "be it to you according to your faith". Is your faith that God can do all He wants in and through you? That He is able to successfully disciple you?

I think He can!

Much love!