Hebrews 10:26-31

[BarneyFife]

Look at the word. There's your answer. Metanoia = aftermind = result of having exchanged the mind = ceasing from the mind of the flesh, and having the mind of Christ.

Disregarding the NLT business, is metanoia really that much different or unique? If memory serves me, didn't you suggest that OT and NT repentance were somehow distinct from one another? And, if so, isn't that a bit of a stretch, really?

 

[BarneyFife]

Enough with all the drama!

I guess you'd rather make your lofty pronouncements on me than do a little word study to see how you should understand the verse in question.

Seriously! You know different translations say different things, and, I've avoided saying "cherry pick", but isn't that what you are doing?

And it seems you'd rather try to pin me in my words than know the truth.

This doesn't edify.

Much love!

Don't allow yourself to be provoked, my friend. Isn't that what you said to BB1953 recently? Just sayin'.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I don't mean to flood you with likes but you seem to be on a roll.

You too. You know how to hit 'em out of the park.

 

[BarneyFife]

You too. You know how to hit 'em out of the park.

Aw, shucks.

 

[BarneyFife]

When you purposely choose to do a righteous work, or think a righteous thought, or hold a righteous attitude that's you choosing to submit to the Spirit. Call it God working in you, but it's still YOU submitting the members of your body in obedience to God. You just didn't do those things by your own power. And so it isn't 'you' in that sense only. You did it using the power God gave you to do it.

This is really good stuff, FB.

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)

This is something I'm sharing today. Admittedly, the presenter is Adventist.

I think I'm still going through stages of faith. Jon Paulien has a very interesting article about this. There's really not much that's particularly Adventist (Sabbath, etc.) about it.

Online Text:
Stages of Faith - Jon Paulien Ph.D.

PDF:
http://www.thebattleofarmageddon.com/stages_of_faith.pdf

Audio presentation here:
Audio: Stages of Faith With Jon Paulien « oneClimbs.com

 

[Tong2020]

And @Ferris Bueller was pointing out to you that that position is faulty.

Not to my reading.

Repentance is not the gospel that the apostles preached. It is what the apostles tells people to do.

Tong2020 said: ↑
It’s very clear, you do works to confirm your calling and election. Do you not see what is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that (see Matthew 7:21).

So you too can’t see what’s wrong with that?

Tong
R1598

 

[Tong2020]

And @Ferris Bueller was pointing out to you that that position is faulty.

Not to my reading.

Repentance is not the gospel that the apostles preached. It is what the apostles tells people to do.

Tong2020 said: ↑
It’s very clear, you do works to confirm your calling and election. Do you not see what is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that (see Matthew 7:21).

So you too can’t see what’s wrong with that?

Tong
R1599

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
When God willed to give mercy to a man and save him, will He not accomplish it? Of course He will. Do you think that the idea that it is up to the man whether to choose to be saved or not, would fit with the certainty that God will accomplishing saving the man? No sir. So, it is all God’s work to be certain that it will be accomplished.

It just seems to me that your doctrine results in the concept that the Lord arbitrarily chooses some people out for the lake of fire. Because if man has nothing to do with his salvation (his response is based on whether God really extended grace to him), then if God does not extend grace to someone, they are not saved; and this is entirely the choice of the Lord. Therefore some are chosen out by God for everlasting damnation through no fault of their own.

My Bible tells me that God is love, however.

Your doctrine is inconsistent with the concept that God is love.

God's love will never fail to give every man a choice as to whether he will choose righteousness and be fit for heaven or whether he will reject the means of righteousness (faith in Christ) and end up in hell.

No sir. God does not choose arbitrarily. God choose according to His will, purpose, pleasure, even according to His nature as a whole. We have gone over this, for which you don’t accept that.

<<<Your doctrine is inconsistent with the concept that God is love.>>>

Not to my thinking.

<<<God's love will never fail to give every man a choice as to whether he will choose righteousness and be fit for heaven or whether he will reject the means of righteousness (faith in Christ) and end up in hell.>>>

That’s what you want God’s love to mean or is what you think of God’s love. You seem to say what God’s love must be, what it will do or what. God’s love is what we see in all of what He does. It is how we know what Love is. It’s not what we think what He must do based on what we think is love.

I think if you don’t start with the man, and instead start with God, things will be a lot different in your theology. As it is, I noticed that you always have this problem with the so called free will of man, and perhaps that is why you try to read the scriptures and interpret them in such a way that it satisfies the free will of man. And that, to the point that his free will seems to be so important as even God must not go against it or for kack of a better word, violate it, and seems to be so powerful that even God could not save him without going through his free will.

Tong
R1600

 

[Tong2020]

@Blood Bought 1953,

Tell me please, is the following part of a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel?

Bear fruits worthy of repentance...

for the axe is laid to the root of the trees.

Do you consider that as good news (gospel)?

Tong
R1601

 

[Tong2020]

There are those who teach that putting your faith in Jesus is the same as works; especially when you get into the realm of Calvinistic teaching.

That is perhaps because they take the believing as the doing of the man that earns him his salvation. I don’t share that view.

Tong
R1602

 

[Tong2020]

For God is able to raise up from these very stones those who are saved by Jesus.

Do you believe that? Do you believe that God will do that if He so wills to do it?

Tong
R1603

 

[Tong2020]

You are saying believing in God is a works gospel if the believing is your own doing, not something outside of yourself given to you. The faith to believe is indeed given from God. But man chooses whether he will retain that faith in a choice to believe and trust in God through that faith, or chooses to not retain that faith in a choice to not believe and trust in God. Faith is a thing. Believing is what a person does when they receive and retain this thing called faith.

<<<You are saying believing in God is a works gospel if the believing is your own doing, not something outside of yourself given to you.>>>

Not quite. Salvation is all God’s work. Now, that is not to say that God does the believing for the man. No sir. The man is still him who will believe. But that is not the work of the man. It is still the work of God.

Now, if the believing refers to or taken as being the work of man, then that would make it a “works (of man) gospel”.

<<<The faith to believe is indeed given from God.>>>

“faith to believe”? Now, this is really getting difficult to understand. Sorry, I can’t seem to get that and so them the rest of what you say.

Tong
R1604

 

[marks]

Don't allow yourself to be provoked, my friend. Isn't that what you said to BB1953 recently? Just sayin'.

Always a good reminder!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Disregarding the NLT business, is metanoia really that much different or unique? If memory serves me, didn't you suggest that OT and NT repentance were somehow distinct from one another? And, if so, isn't that a bit of a stretch, really?

I'm not really sure what you mean about metanoia being different.

In the OT, when it talks about repentance, it's words meaning "to change one's direction" or to "reverse course".

In the NT, using metanoia, it's a word speaking of not changing one's mind, but exchanging it. Rather then the "stop doing this and start doing that" of the OT, it's more, trade in your old mind for a new mind, and now we have new minds.

Doea this help?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Don't allow yourself to be provoked, my friend. Isn't that what you said to BB1953 recently? Just sayin'.

The drama distracts from real discussion. Or flat out avoids it.

I figure if someone wants to avoid a conversation, just don't post in it. No need to try to make it look like something else.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you consider that as good news (gospel)?

Tong
R1601

The Gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:1-12
1) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9) For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10) But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12) Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

There's the Good News! Resurrection!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think I'm still going through stages of faith. Jon Paulien has a very interesting article about this.

Just read some of this, I'm planning to go back for a longer look.

I'm not sure that I go along with these stages as a general rule, but I can see how these patterns can present themselves. I feel like my life doesn't really show so much this progress in the overall, but I can see "mini-cycles" at various times in my life.

My first thought on this read is that I like how he gets into what our faith looks like, means to us, at different times of life. And pointing to some of the pitfalls in our thoughts we may encounter.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm not telling believers they are not unsaved. The message is for unsaved people living in sin who think they are saved because they say works don't matter.

The fact is "your works"dont matter, not one bit, your wrks add not one dot to your salvation. Jesus came to do His fathers will not His own,

The works that I do are the works my father gave me to do.

You know how many "christians" run around dong works and are completely outside the will of God, you know that bit , we did this and e did that in your name, and He says depart from you workers of iniquity..

 

[BarneyFife]

I'm not really sure what you mean about metanoia being different.

In the OT, when it talks about repentance, it's words meaning "to change one's direction" or to "reverse course".

In the NT, using metanoia, it's a word speaking of not changing one's mind, but exchanging it. Rather then the "stop doing this and start doing that" of the OT, it's more, trade in your old mind for a new mind, and now we have new minds.

Doea this help?

Much love!

Absolutely! Got it!

 

[Behold]

If someone falls away because of temptation (Luke 8:13), they do not continue to have salvation.

Salvation is the blood of Jesus saving you and keeping you saved.
Of which you have no idea, according to the 100 posts, obo, that you've posted to me, that teach that you are your own savior, who is trying to keep yourself saved by not falling away.
My advice to you, is to realize yourself, asap.