Make No Mistake! God Will Kill Some For Not Keeping His Dietary Laws! Part 2

[Xanderoc]

Your question are unfounded because you err in understanding the context of Isaiah 66 and Hebrews 10.
I will show you as soon as you are ready to consider context when reading scripture, until then it would just be a futile act. You error in your understanding of God's new and better covenant through Christ and you want to ignore the dynamics of this new covenant even though it is simply and clearly expressed in the scriptures. You obviously don't want to deal with the new covenant nor it's dynamics, but when your ready we can start with the scriptures in 2 Corinthians 3 that you have been ignoring.

jiggyfly you still haven't responded to my question? I will copy and paste my earlier post. "When has the lord come with fire?

1 Thess 1: [sup]7[/sup]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [sup]8[/sup]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 66:[sup]15[/sup]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

[sup]16[/sup]For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
This looks like the same time frame to me!!! So I ask again when did the lord come with flames of fire? MAKE FULL PROOF OF YOUR MINISTRY!!!"

 

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly you still haven't responded to my question? I will copy and paste my earlier post. "When has the lord come with fire?

1 Thess 1: [sup]7[/sup]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [sup]8[/sup]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 66:[sup]15[/sup]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

[sup]16[/sup]For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
This looks like the same time frame to me!!! So I ask again when did the lord come with flames of fire? MAKE FULL PROOF OF YOUR MINISTRY!!!"

When they still used chariots as transportation.
On a side note, you may want to check your keyboard, I think your exclamation point is hung up.

 

[Xanderoc]

When they still used chariots as transportation.
On a side note, you may want to check your keyboard, I think your exclamation point is hung up.

That is your response? Well that didn't prove anything to the readers, except you can't make full proof of your ministry.
When has the Lord come with fire to take vengence? When Jesus came, He didn't come with fire, and He didn't take vengence on ALL flesh.
That was a sad attempt to make fun of the scriptures. Remember the Lord will plead with all the false doctrine being spread on this forum. It will behoove you to make full proof of the doctrine your spreading!

 

[charlesj]

jiggyfly you still haven't responded to my question? I will copy and paste my earlier post. "When has the lord come with fire?

1 Thess 1: [sup]7[/sup]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [sup]8[/sup]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 66:[sup]15[/sup]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

[sup]16[/sup]For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
This looks like the same time frame to me!!! So I ask again when did the lord come with flames of fire? MAKE FULL PROOF OF YOUR MINISTRY!!!"

xander:



I think you mean 2 Thess 1:7? Anyway, this event spoken of in 2 Thess 1:7 is NOT the same event as Isaiah 66:15. You are tying these two events (Is 66:15 & 2Thess 1:7) together because of the judgment language.



When you see prophecy (judgment) language used by the Hebrews you will see “coming in clouds, coming with fire, coming like a whirlwind, etc.etc” The fire pictures judgment while the whirlwind speaks of speed. It will happen fast and it will be bad!



The event of Isaiah 66 has already taken place when God judged the exiles (Jews) coming back out of Babylon. The event of 2 Thess has not taken place yet.



The problem with the premillennialist is they take everything literally.



May the Lord be with you,

Charles Jemeyson

[email protected]

San Antonio, Texas

 

[jiggyfly]

That is your response? Well that didn't prove anything to the readers, except you can't make full proof of your ministry.
When has the Lord come with fire to take vengence? When Jesus came, He didn't come with fire, and He didn't take vengence on ALL flesh.
That was a sad attempt to make fun of the scriptures. Remember the Lord will plead with all the false doctrine being spread on this forum. It will behoove you to make full proof of the doctrine your spreading!

Sorry Xander but I'm smart enough to know you do not speak for Jesus. I talk to Him everyday and if I were you I would worry about Xander and your own paradigm and leave jiggyfly to me.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

The event of Isaiah 66 has already taken place when God judged the exiles (Jews) coming back out of Babylon.

If that is the case please prove your point; prove that ALL of Isa.66 has happened!


Prove that;

[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Again we have the phrase, "...ALL FLESH.." that you have to deal with. At what point in time had God pleaded with ALL FLESH? .....then the following....

[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

So ALL of the nation of Israel must have come to worship at Jerusalem.....and then....


[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

You must prove that ALL mankind came to worship the Lord....and THEN.....


[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

You must prove when they came they were able to see the men burning whose worms did not die! Who were these men and why did their worms not die?

You say it is NOT literal? Then explain! Just when did these events happen?

.

.

 

[Martin W.]

Experts in the law and the Pharisees would say pretty much the same thing.

And we all know what Jesus said about them.

 

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly you still haven't responded to my question? I will copy and paste my earlier post. "When has the lord come with fire?

1 Thess 1: [sup]7[/sup]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [sup]8[/sup]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 66:[sup]15[/sup]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

[sup]16[/sup]For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
This looks like the same time frame to me!!! So I ask again when did the lord come with flames of fire? MAKE FULL PROOF OF YOUR MINISTRY!!!"

While the holy house was on fire, everything was plundered that came to hand, and ten thousand of those that were caught were slain; nor was there a commiseration of any age, or any reverence of gravity; but children, and old men, and profane persons, and priests, were all slain in the same manner; so that this war went round all sorts of men, and brought them to destruction, and as well those that made supplication for their lives, as those that defended themselves by fighting. The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain ; and because this hill was high , and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought that the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine anything either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamour of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword. Josephus Book VI Chapter V section 1

 

[Eccl.12:13]

While the holy house was on fire, everything was plundered that came to hand, and ten thousand of those that were caught were slain; nor was there a commiseration of any age, or any reverence of gravity; but children, and old men, and profane persons, and priests, were all slain in the same manner; so that this war went round all sorts of men, and brought them to destruction, and as well those that made supplication for their lives, as those that defended themselves by fighting. The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain ; and because this hill was high , and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought that the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine anything either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamour of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword. Josephus Book VI Chapter V section 1

Are you really trying to make the above event 'fit' Isa.66? Let's read some more of Isa.66 to see if the above event is the same:

Isa.66
[6] A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

First let's us understand just who it is that will render recompence to HIS enemies! It is the LORD! Is it the Lord that is doing the slaying in the event you provided above?

[10] Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
[11] That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
[12] For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
[13] As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

So tell me....after the events you provided above, was Jerusalem extended with peace?

[14] And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

And again was the hand of the LORD known to HIS servants and was it the LORD that rendered indignation to HIS enemies in the event you are trying to pawn off as Isa.66.

15. For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

So just WHO was it that did ALL of the actions in YOUR event above? Was it the Lord? Let's continue...

[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

So were ALL of the 12 tribes gathered and brought to Jerusalem AFTER the event you provided? In your event above it sounds like Israel was SCATTERED!!!

[21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

And after they were gathered were they made priest?

[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And just when did ALL flesh come before the Lord to worship AFTER the event you provided?

[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

And are the fires STILL burning, and are the worms YET alive, and are the carcases STILL able to be viewed in the event you gave us? God's word says they will be able to be viewed from one sabbath to another and from one new moon to another!

You do understand what is being described above right? FIRE! WORMS that will not die! BODIES of men that have trangressed/broken God's laws!

And you want the readers of this lesson to believe that ALL of what God said in Isa.66 has already happened?

Let me ask you this.....if you thought this from the start why didn't you lead with it? Why didn't you just say from the beginning that ALL of the events of Isa.66 has already taken place?

You didn't because you are trying to FIND a way around what the word of God is saying!

Again.....you provided an event, that sounds to me what happened around 70 a.d., and are trying to say these are the same events that the prophet Isaiah spoke of in chapter 66.

Well, if in fact they did happen, don't just prove ONE part of the event.....prove ALL of Isa.66!!


.

 

[jiggyfly]

Are you really trying to make the above event 'fit' Isa.66? Let's read some more of Isa.66 to see if the above event is the same:

Isa.66
[6] A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

First let's us understand just who it is that will render recompence to HIS enemies! It is the LORD! Is it the Lord that is doing the slaying in the event you provided above?

[10] Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
[11] That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
[12] For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
[13] As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

So tell me....after the events you provided above, was Jerusalem extended with peace?

[14] And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

And again was the hand of the LORD known to HIS servants and was it the LORD that rendered indignation to HIS enemies in the event you are trying to pawn off as Isa.66.

15. For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

So just WHO was it that did ALL of the actions in YOUR event above? Was it the Lord? Let's continue...

[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

So were ALL of the 12 tribes gathered and brought to Jerusalem AFTER the event you provided? In your event above it sounds like Israel was SCATTERED!!!

[21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

And after they were gathered were they made priest?

[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

And just when did ALL flesh come before the Lord to worship AFTER the event you provided?

[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

And are the fires STILL burning, and are the worms YET alive, and are the carcases STILL able to be viewed in the event you gave us? God's word says they will be able to be viewed from one sabbath to another and from one new moon to another!

You do understand what is being described above right? FIRE! WORMS that will not die! BODIES of men that have trangressed/broken God's laws!

And you want the readers of this lesson to believe that ALL of what God said in Isa.66 has already happened?

Let me ask you this.....if you thought this from the start why didn't you lead with it? Why didn't you just say from the beginning that ALL of the events of Isa.66 has already taken place?

You didn't because you are trying to FIND a way around what the word of God is saying!

Again.....you provided an event, that sounds to me what happened around 70 a.d., and are trying to say these are the same events that the prophet Isaiah spoke of in chapter 66.

Well, if in fact they did happen, don't just prove ONE part of the event.....prove ALL of Isa.66!!


.

Nah, I think I agree with Martin and have better things to do than discuss this issue with someone so close minded towards the gospel of grace.



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[aspen]

You know, I think you guys have really said all you can say about this issue - Jiggyfly, you laid out all the relevant verses and Selene you put the focus back on loving God and neighbor, rather than food. It seems to me that Eccl has failed to address the words of Paul and Jesus on this subject. Here is verse that I believe is worth repeating:

Galatians 5:1
[ Freedom in Christ ] It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Why make it harder for Christians to know Christ? We have been warned not to cause the little children to stumble.

Peace

 

[Martin W.]

I am going to make a comment that goes down the middle of the road.

I am not a middle of the road kind of guy , but I find the bible sometimes takes us there.

Ecclesiastes, the legalistic Pharisee started this thread about keeping the law. I would not necessarily disagree with him. He makes some very good points and it is obvious that he studies hard.

Jesus tells us he came to abolish the law , he also tells us he came to fulfill the law , he also tells us he came to keep all the commands of his Father. I would not disagree with Jesus either , but my mind is confused by all this.

One of the ways I have found to escape from my confusion is to consider that one day The God of Israel will land on Mount Zion and proclaim all his truths and all his commands and all his laws , and then we all find out where we fit in.

For me as a Christian , I expect a lot of forgiveness. After all I am merely a branch grafted into the Olive Tree Israel. I did not have the Law but I found salvation in Christ. The law was not given to the gentiles like me. It was given to Moses and Israel. At times like this I feel fortunate to be a gentile Christian with forgiveness on my side.

If I was Israel by birth and trying to keep the law , I would be troubled and pray for a savior. It is very difficult to keep the law without stumbling on even one point.

One day God will return and both his law and his forgiveness come into play. Both are true.

A person can live under the law , or live under Christ.

Each one of us individuals decide for ourselves what we live by. We are the judge. Not some mean old God on a throne.

God still has a plan and a time to deal with Israel. It will be under the law they were given. They do not have Christ. They have the law.

Both positions are correct. When I travel down the middle of the road , it is only because the bible gives me no other choice.

Best regards to all

Arnie . Martin. Woodside MB.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

You know, I think you guys have really said all you can say about this issue - Jiggyfly, you laid out all the relevant verses and Selene you put the focus back on loving God and neighbor, rather than food. It seems to me that Eccl has failed to address the words of Paul and Jesus on this subject. Here is verse that I believe is worth repeating:

Galatians 5:1
[ Freedom in Christ ] It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Why make it harder for Christians to know Christ? We have been warned not to cause the little children to stumble.

Peace

Your turn Aspen....please explain just why is it God is going to do the following;

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

There have been many attempts but none yet has given an answer as to why God is going to do this. Or are you too under the assupmtion that Isa.66 has already happened?

Do you believe Isa.66 has happened?

.

 

[aspen]

Yes, it seems that it is my turn to have my post ignored and get confronted with scripture that is first addressed to Israel, thousands of years ago and second, is primarily give to us to show God omnipotence, rather than threaten humankind - God is hardly threatened by our sin - Jesus already died for us.

Instead of confronting me with verses from a prophet who was addressing Israel's unfaithfulness (not specifically, their dietary indiscretions), why not address the verses from the NT that everyone on the board has so lovingly presented you with?

Peace

 

[Rach1370]

How can we grow in Christ unless we are open to biblical teaching and the voice of the Holy Spirit?? I wonder if ecc.12:13 is? He seems stuck on repeat!!
It seems to me that jiggyfly, Martin W and Aspen have it right. Jesus came to fulfill the laws of the old Testament for us, since we are incapable of it ourselves. Paul is quite clear in 1 Cor 10 that food is not an issue for Christians...we should only have a care not to make a brother uncomfortable or stumble.
I do realise that by posting here I will be up for the "but you haven't answered my question" response; and to that I say this....
Any time you argue this venomously for anything in the Bible, it needs to point at Jesus. Not food, not law, not being so sure you are 100% correct that there is nothing left for you to learn. All the Old Testament points to Jesus...how everything that is required of us is impossible, how all the old rituals were preparing for the ultimate sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb. And the New Testament confirms this, it shows us who the Messiah is, and that faith placed in him for everything is not wasted, but precious!
We are the church, the bride of Jesus. We should stand together and point unbelievers towards him....and if we disagree on some matters, we should discuss them lovingly, not make others feel they "will be killed by God" for being pig eaters. We are covered by the blood of Jesus, and to suggest that that is not enough to save us from the wrath of God is to suggest that Jesus' sacrifice is not sufficient.
I will not post here again, as I have come across people just as stubborn as you, and know my answer will likely be attacked. I pray that you will discover the joy of Freedom that our Lord purchased for us!
(disclaimer: when I say freedom, I do NOT mean Christians have liberty to sin as they please!! We are to run from sin and spend our lives striving to become more Christlike. )

 

[aspen]

Any time you argue this venomously for anything in the Bible, it needs to point at Jesus.

Spectacular!

Peace

 

[Xanderoc]

How can we grow in Christ unless we are open to biblical teaching and the voice of the Holy Spirit?? I wonder if ecc.12:13 is? He seems stuck on repeat!!
It seems to me that jiggyfly, Martin W and Aspen have it right. Jesus came to fulfill the laws of the old Testament for us, since we are incapable of it ourselves. Paul is quite clear in 1 Cor 10 that food is not an issue for Christians...we should only have a care not to make a brother uncomfortable or stumble.
I do realise that by posting here I will be up for the "but you haven't answered my question" response; and to that I say this....
Any time you argue this venomously for anything in the Bible, it needs to point at Jesus. Not food, not law, not being so sure you are 100% correct that there is nothing left for you to learn. All the Old Testament points to Jesus...how everything that is required of us is impossible, how all the old rituals were preparing for the ultimate sacrifice of the Perfect Lamb. And the New Testament confirms this, it shows us who the Messiah is, and that faith placed in him for everything is not wasted, but precious!
We are the church, the bride of Jesus. We should stand together and point unbelievers towards him....and if we disagree on some matters, we should discuss them lovingly, not make others feel they "will be killed by God" for being pig eaters. We are covered by the blood of Jesus, and to suggest that that is not enough to save us from the wrath of God is to suggest that Jesus' sacrifice is not sufficient.
I will not post here again, as I have come across people just as stubborn as you, and know my answer will likely be attacked. I pray that you will discover the joy of Freedom that our Lord purchased for us!
(disclaimer: when I say freedom, I do NOT mean Christians have liberty to sin as they please!! We are to run from sin and spend our lives striving to become more Christlike. )

Rach, it seems to me that everyone is saying ecc. is on repeat mode, but the fact is, no one here has given any scriptures to say Jesus isn't going to kill people for not keeping His commandment and laws. On the contrary the bible is clear from both Old and New testaments, that the Lord will render His wrath on the unbeliever. The Lord said through His prophet Amos. Amos 3: [sup]7[/sup]Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. So if you want to know the secrets of the Lord, read the prophets. Everyone is saying Ecc. is on repeat mode, but NO ONE is listening the message. The Lord is the one who sanctifies people, and He does it with His word. He sets people apart from the world with the Laws and commandments. People are being taught the don't have to follow God laws and commandments anymore. So what makes them different from the world? If Jesus was here today on earth, the Christians of today wouldn't follow Him. Because He would say; Christmas is Pagan, Sunday worship is Pagan, Easter is Pagan, you would have to keep the Sabbath, and all His High Days. you wouldn't be able to eat what ever you want. The Christians of today would kill Him. People on this forum, reading this thread, read the scriptures, and find the truth. Don't let no prophet put you and your family in the Lake Of Fire!!!

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Each one of us individuals decide for ourselves what we live by. We are the judge. Not some mean old God on a throne.

Really? So YOU have decided and NOT God what you will live by? It sounds as though the created is assuming the role of the CREATOR!!

And YOU are the judge and NOT God? Really?

And is any of what you say supported by God's holy word?


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Prov.14:12

Isa.30
[9] That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
[10] Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
[11] Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
[12] Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:

.

 

[Martin W.]

And YOU are the judge and NOT God? Really?

I alone am the one who decides my destiny. I can choose Christ or I can reject him.

 

[Foreigner]

How can we grow in Christ unless we are open to biblical teaching and the voice of the Holy Spirit?? I wonder if ecc.12:13 is? He seems stuck on repeat!!
It seems to me that jiggyfly, Martin W and Aspen have it right. Jesus came to fulfill the laws of the old Testament for us, since we are incapable of it ourselves. Paul is quite clear in 1 Cor 10 that food is not an issue for Christians...we should only have a care not to make a brother uncomfortable or stumble.

-- I agree with Rach.

The only issue I can see with food is when it comes to gluttony.

Whatever you turn to in your time of need - be it food, sex, work, etc. - THAT becomes your God. In that particular case I can indeed see where food becomes a vice.

'Vice' is Latin for "in place of' and when food becomes a vice, filling the void for lonliness, rejection, etc. then God becomes secondary and Eccl. has a legitimate point.

But the torture and death that Jesus suffered on the cross is not going to be negated just because you stopped to get a McRib sandwich at McDonald's on the way home from church.