Make No Mistake! God Will Kill Some For Not Keeping His Dietary Laws! Part 2

[Selene]

Personally, I don't really care for beef or pork. My diet consist mostly of fish and chicken. I don't believe that God is going to condemn a person to Hell because they ate beef or pork, but I must admit that there is some wisdom in keeping with those dietary laws. It has been proven that eating too much red meat and fatty pork is not very good for one's health. God doesn't need to punish those who ate too much of those food because in time, they will already be punished with diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and the illnesses that comes with obesity, etc.

There were good reasons for having those laws during those times. This could be due to the fact that in ancient times people had not realized how to preserve and prepare some foods. For instance, pork not prepared or stored properly can cause illness. By labeling the animal as unclean and forbidden, consumption and handling of those potentially dangerous foods would not occur. In the New Testament, the most important commandment is to love God and to love your neighbor with all your heart, mind, and soul. Jesus did say that these are the two greatest commandments and that all the laws and prophets are fulfilled in these two commandments. Whether a person decides to eat a lot of red meat and fatty pork is really up to them. After all, God gave us free will. But there is great wisdom in the Bible. God cares a lot about our salvation, and I'm sure He cares a lot about our bodily health as well. After all, our bodies are now temples and the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. Both the human body and the soul are extremely important and both are equally valuable and precious in God's eyes.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Eccl.12:13]

I don't believe that God is going to condemn a person to Hell because they ate beef or pork,

And here in lies the problem, "...I don't believe..."

What you are really saying is that you do not believe God's holy word. Let's read it again, just in case you skimmed through this lesson;

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

So just what part of God's word do you NOT believe?

Do you NOT believe He will return with fire and chariots to render anger and fury, like the scriptures says above?

Or do you not believe that the slain of the Lord shall be many, like God's word says above?

Or is it the following verse you do NOT believe;

[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Now tell me, is it ALL of the verse that you do not believe or just some of it?

Can you provide ANY scripture as to why you do NOT believe God is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Make no mistake...God's word is true! And if His word says He is going to return and consume those that eat, swine, mouse and the rest of what He called an abomination, you can best believe it is going to happen!

The question ALL that are reading this lesson should be asking is, WHY?

WHY is God going to punish those for eating unclean beast?

WHY is there NO mention of clean beast?

WHY is this being done if His dietary laws were nailed to the cross?



Well here is a hint as to WHY?

Jem.12
[10] Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jer.14
[14] Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jer.16
[19] O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Jer.23
[1] Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
[2] Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

Ezek.22
[25] There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
[26] Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.


You have been LIED to!!!!!



.

 

[jiggyfly]

I don't believe that God is going to condemn a person to Hell because they ate beef or pork
In Christ,
Selene

I agree Selene.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

These lessons are for those that may have never been taught, or even heard of these topics! I know there are many that have never considered the fact or read that God is going to punish some for not keeping His dietary laws!

This lesson is for them!

Believe it or not there are some that will take this lesson to heart and at least consider the matter!



.



.

 

[Selene]

And here in lies the problem, "...I don't believe..."

What you are really saying is that you do not believe God's holy word. Let's read it again, just in case you skimmed through this lesson;

Hello Eccl,

What I am saying is that God's greatest commandments are 1) to love God and 2) to love your neighbor as yourself. It is these two that Christ said are the two greatest commandments and it is these two that all the laws and prophets depends on (Matthew 22:36-40).

Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets

Therefore, those dietary laws are not so important, and one will not be punished because of what they ate. St., Paul said that we should not judge a person simply because of the foods or drinks he/she consumes. When St. Paul converted the Gentiles, that does not mean that they are to follow all the laws that God gave to the Jews. For example, circumcision was not required for the Gentiles.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths,

In Christ,
Selene

 

[charlesj]

Now that we know God told man about ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ foods before there was even a Jew on the planet, and then made sure it was written down so that there was no mistakes about which was which, let’s get to the meat of this lesson.

Let’s read just who it is Jesus will punish when He returns.

Isa.13
[6] Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
[9] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it

Right from the start we know just who it is Jesus will punish, “…and he shall destroy the sinners…”

Ezek.30
[3] For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

Sinner’s and heathen’s; both will have their day. Let’s continue….

Isa.13
[6] Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
[9] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

It is quite obvious who it is the Lord will punish upon His return. Let’s read a few more scriptures dealing with the second coming of the Lord….

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.


And who are the many that the Lord will slain? The sinners! Now just for the record let’s read God’s definition of “sin”:


1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Those that broke God’s laws are the ones that will be punished, slain and destroyed, when He returns.

Now let’s look at one last group of people God considers “SINNERS”….

[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


I can see why God will punish those that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind the tree, because these are those that worship false god’s and idols.


But to ALL of those that say God’s dietary laws were nailed to the cross, why on earth would God punish, even consume, those that eat Mr. SWINE, Mr. MOUSE and the ABOMINATION?

If God’s dietary law were in fact done away with and nailed to Hiss cross, as some of you THINK Paul declares, why are these poor people being punished for eating Mr. Swine, Mr. Mouse and the ABOMINATION?


Please note not ONE ‘clean’ animal was mentioned!

Only those that God said NOT to eat was mentioned!


Also note the scriptures does not say it will be just the nation of Israel that will be consumed for eating such things. Let’s read it again….



[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Now will God punish ALL that consume such animals? Of course not! If you were not taught what is ‘clean’ or ‘unclean’ how is that your fault.

But for those of you that just read this lesson or have heard of God’s dietary laws and chose to ignore them, thinking they do not apply to you……..what will you do now!

Before ending let’s read Peter’s warning about ALL of Paul’s writings……

2 Peter 3
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Now let’s look at some of the doctrine floating around…..

There are some that say, “Paul says we are not under the law!”

But Jesus says, “…but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”

He even goes and says a few of them, “…Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself…”

To those that want to ride with what they THINK Paul is saying I ask the following question, “Can Paul put you into God’s kingdom?”

Then there are some that say, “Paul says we can eat anything we want!”

But God’s word says…

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Again….. To those that want to ride with what they THINK Paul is saying, I must ask, “Can Paul stop the Lord from punishing the sinner? Can Paul stop the Lord from consuming those that are , ‘…eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse…’?



Make no mistake! God’s word is TRUE! He WILL kill some for not keeping His Dietary Laws!

.

Hello Eccl 12:13:
I posted this reply on your First post regarding eating of swines flesh....
I am going to "paste" my reply here also:


YOU SAID:

“So why is it again Jesus is going to consume some for eating unclean beast?

Isa.66
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


This is the question NO ONE has yet to answer!!!!

And trust me.......I KNOW you guys are trying to find a way around it!!!!”

ANSWER:

In “CONTEXT” (chapter 66) what is this chapter speaking of and to whom is it speaking and why was it written?


If you read the whole chapter you would NOT be applying it to those of the New Covenant, that is, Christians.

I’m going to briefly go through the chapter, at least to verse 20 so as to cover the verse you are using as a “proof text’ not to eat unclean food. Also you are saying Jesus is going to “consume” those who eat unclean beast. NOT SO!


IN the beginning of Isaiah 66, you see some Jewish exiles (from the Babylonia captivity) contemplating appeasing God by building of another temple of great beauty; but is this what Jehovah wants? Could they make a dwelling place for Him whose dwelling place is heaven and whose footstool is earth? Could they impress Him with this?

What God wants is a dwelling place in a man heart (v.2).

God is not impressed by rivers of blood or numerous sacrifices (see Micah 6:6ff). It is not fastidious care in the choice of the clean sacrifices which impresses God! As far as He is concerned, they are all one, if a man does not belong to God! See this also in Psalm 51:16ff. They must suffer for the choice of their ways (v.4) God cannot be bribed by formalism.

To those who are abused (v5), God speaks comfort.

To those Jews whose heart was Zion, comes the word: “Rejoice ye with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all ye that love her” (v.10) She will have peace (v.12) and in this will the righteous Jews be comforted (vs 13,14)

…..skipping down to verse 15 and following…

Judgment will come along with blessing (see also Isaiah 61:2 with 63:4)

The nation (the exiles of Israel) must be purged to bring about blessing. God is going to bring judgment on ISRAEL. This judgment will weed out the iniquitous, those who break the Mosaic Law and eat swine’s flesh, etc.

The rest will be “escapees”, survivors; and these will be sent among the nations to declare God’s glory shown in judgment (this is illustrated in Ezekiel 35:8,9, 15b & Isaiah 26:9b). The sign placed thus among Israel refers to the stigma of judgment. (See also Exodus 10:1,2)

They of verse 20 seem to be the nations (compare 43:6; 49:22f; 60:4) who carefully (v.20b) bring home the scattered of Israel. These former exiles will be used as priests and Levites (v.21)….



Isaiah 66 is dealing with the exiles from the Babylonian captivity. These are JEWS and not Gentiles. Some of these exiles had picked up the habits of Babylon and God would “weed these out.” Some of these exiles are breaking the law of Moses with unclean meats as food.



Christians are under The Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses. Jesus changed the law (Heb 7:12ff) We are under a new Priest, a Priest from the tribe of Judah!! We are NOT under Moses, nor has a Gentile ever been under that law unless he/she became a proselyte to Judaism.


May the Lord be with you,

Your servant in Messiah, Jesus the Christ,
Charles Jemeyson
[email protected]
San Antonio, Texas


"God has NO grandchildren, NO in-laws, ONLY children"

 

[Eccl.12:13]

and one will not be punished because of what they ate.

Then please explain the following verses;

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Someone is being punished here. And from what I read it is the following;

Those that sancity themselves!
Those that purify themselves in the gardens, which is worshiping false gods!
Those that eat swine!
Those that eat the abomination!
Those that eat the mouse!

Are not ALL of the above punished by the Lord upon His return?

Do you have any idea WHY?

.

I’m going to briefly go through the chapter, at least to verse 20 so as to cover the verse you are using as a “proof text’ not to eat unclean food. Also you are saying Jesus is going to “consume” those who eat unclean beast. NOT SO!

Come on now charlesj:

You know I'm going to come back with scripture on you. Let's read the verse you did NOT post, although you said you would post all the way to verse 20!!!!

Isa. 66
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Now just who is ALL flesh? Is it ONLY the nation of Israel?

No! "ALL" means "ALL"

.

 

[charlesj]

Then please explain the following verses;

Isa.66
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Someone is being punished here. And from what I read it is the following;

Those that sancity themselves!
Those that purify themselves in the gardens, which is worshiping false gods!
Those that eat swine!
Those that eat the abomination!
Those that eat the mouse!

Are not ALL of the above punished by the Lord upon His return?

Do you have any idea WHY?

.





Come on now charlesj:

You know I'm going to come back with scripture on you. Let's read the verse you did NOT post, although you said you would post all the way to verse 20!!!!

Isa. 66
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Now just who is ALL flesh? Is it ONLY the nation of Israel?

No! "ALL" means "ALL"

.

Eccl:
The "all" is "all the exiles" that this chapter is speaking of. This chapter is speaking to the exiles of Israel. NO one else is God going to judge for breaking the Law of Moses. Gentiles (as I've said several times) NEVER had the Law of Moses.
Christians are under the Law of Chirst, not the Law of Moses.
I've already asked you to show me ONE place in the New Covenant where we are are to obey the dietary laws. So far, you have not answered me???

Anyway, it's my bed time, being as I get up at 5:30 and drink coffee (opps, this is okay?) with my wife. I'm on CST and it's 10:47 here now.

Keep your chin up.

May the Lord be with you.

Your servant in Christ,
Charles Jemeyson

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Eccl:
The "all" is "all the exiles" that this chapter is speaking of. This chapter is speaking to the exiles of Israel. NO one else is God going to judge for breaking the Law of Moses.

Really? Then please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite that can sin? Let's read....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So are the 'we' above JUST the nation of Israel? Is this another one of your 'group' tactics like you tried with 'all flesh'?

And what is God's defintion of sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let me ask you.....Do not we ALL sin?

Now do we ONLY sin by NOT loving God or NOT our neighbors? After all....that's what everybody says we must keep!

Or is it possible to sin by stealing, but murdering, by coveting, by commiting fornication, by telling lies? Are not ALL these sins!

And are not all these from God's laws that He GAVE to Moses? They are not Moses laws!!!



Let's look at the 'New Covenant'!


Heb.8
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Finding fault with WHO? God's laws? NO!! Finding fault with 'THEM', the people!

And what is it God puts now in our minds? "...I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts..."!

You want to know where it is God tells us to keep His dietary laws? It's right above!

The problem is that too many have been led astray and no longer think they must obey them.



.

 

[jiggyfly]

Really? Then please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite that can sin? Let's read....


.

Couple of questions Eccl. Who was the letter to the Hebrews written to? Who was the author? This is all part of understanding the context.

 

[Xanderoc]

Couple of questions Eccl. Who was the letter to the Hebrews written to? Who was the author? This is all part of understanding the context.

The problem with the understanding of some of the people on this forum is trying to separate Israel from the Gentiles. Paul say there is no difference between Jew or Greek (Gentile)!!
1 Cor.12:[sup]13[/sup]For we were all baptized by[sup][a][/sup] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Acts 20:[sup]21[/sup]I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Romans 1: [sup]15[/sup]So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. [sup]16[/sup]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[sup]17[/sup]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 10:[sup]12[/sup]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

The Gospel was given to Israel first, the same Gospel was given to the Gentiles.

Isaiah said it best!!!

Isaiah 56:
[sup]2[/sup]Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

[sup]3[/sup]Neither let the son of the stranger (Gentile), that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.

What you fail to realize is, this is the God of Israel, and His covenants were made with Israel, so for us to join in with the Lord, we have to keep the same covenants. What ever Israel has to do, the stranger has to do also. Paul stated that the stranger (Gentile) was grafted into the fold.

Romans 11: [sup]17[/sup]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree ( Gentiles), wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

[sup]18[/sup]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

[sup]19[/sup]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

[sup]20[/sup]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


They were broken off for not keeping the commandments of God, and not believing in the One ( Messiah)!!!!


[sup]21[/sup]For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest he also spare not thee.


This means we have to do what Israel failed to do.... Believe in Jesus, His Commandments, His Laws, His Feast Days, and His Sabbath Day!!!


[sup]22[/sup]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: ( how do you continue in his goodness?) otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

[sup]23[/sup] And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.


So until the people on this forum, and the world realize there is no difference between Israel and the stranger.


That what ever Israel has to do to make it into the kingdom of God


(7th Day Sabbath, Feast Days, Dietary Law, Commandments,)

The Gentiles (stranger) has to do the same....God is a just and fair God...He isn't going to kill an Israelite for picking up sticks on the Sabbath Day, and then come in the flesh and say the Gentiles don't have to keep it!!!! He is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow!!!! All this folly, and false doctrine is do to the lack of understanding Paul's writings!!!!


The only thing Israel and the Gentiles are not to do is sacrifice animals. Jesus was are sacrifice!!!!!

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Couple of questions Eccl. Who was the letter to the Hebrews written to? Who was the author? This is all part of understanding the context.

How about answering the topic of the lesson.!

Can you tell me why it is God is going to consume some that do not keep HIs dietary laws?

But to answer your question, Pauls letter is to those that believe and trust in the true and living God! Here....let's prove it...

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Now you answer me this! Who is the 'WE' Paul speaks of above? Is it ONLY for his fellow Israelites?

Do you really think God has TWO agendas?

Do you really think God is going to punish one set of people, just because they were born a certain nationality, for doing something and not another because they were born something else?

Do you honestly think God would kill a man for picking up sticks on his sabbath in the OT, but because another was born something other than an Israelite in the NT, not render the same punishment for doing the samething?

And do you really think those God will consume for breaking His dietary laws will be limited to ONLY the nation of Israel?

I would not want to serve THAT god! That god is an unfair god!

The God I serve is a fair God! He renders His wrath to ALL that disobey! And His word is true! And His word says.....

"....all nations..." and "...all flesh..." in Isa.66

.

 

[jiggyfly]

How about answering the topic of the lesson.!

Can you tell me why it is God is going to consume some that do not keep HIs dietary laws?

But to answer your question, Pauls letter is to those that believe and trust in the true and living God! Here....let's prove it...

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Now you answer me this! Who is the 'WE' Paul speaks of above? Is it ONLY for his fellow Israelites?

Do you really think God has TWO agendas?

Do you really think God is going to punish one set of people, just because they were born a certain nationality, for doing something and not another because they were born something else?

Do you honestly think God would kill a man for picking up sticks on his sabbath in the OT, but because another was born something other than an Israelite in the NT, not render the same punishment for doing the samething?

And do you really think those God will consume for breaking His dietary laws will be limited to ONLY the nation of Israel?

I would not want to serve THAT god! That god is an unfair god!

The God I serve is a fair God! He renders His wrath to ALL that disobey! And His word is true! And His word says.....

"....all nations..." and "...all flesh..." in Isa.66

.

Can you show me any place in the letter to the Hebrews that proves Paul was the author?
When it comes to the punishment written of in Isaiah 66, did it ever occur to you that it has already come to pass? Again Eccl. you could save yourself a lot of confusion if you would learn how to read the scriptures within the context given.

 

[charlesj]

Really? Then please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite that can sin? Let's read....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So are the 'we' above JUST the nation of Israel? Is this another one of your 'group' tactics like you tried with 'all flesh'?

And what is God's defintion of sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let me ask you.....Do not we ALL sin?

Now do we ONLY sin by NOT loving God or NOT our neighbors? After all....that's what everybody says we must keep!

Or is it possible to sin by stealing, but murdering, by coveting, by commiting fornication, by telling lies? Are not ALL these sins!

And are not all these from God's laws that He GAVE to Moses? They are not Moses laws!!!



Let's look at the 'New Covenant'!


Heb.8
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Finding fault with WHO? God's laws? NO!! Finding fault with 'THEM', the people!

And what is it God puts now in our minds? "...I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts..."!

You want to know where it is God tells us to keep His dietary laws? It's right above!

The problem is that too many have been led astray and no longer think they must obey them.



.

Hello Eric:

We’ve got to quit meeting each other this way. You keep throwing things “out of context” and acting like a fireman with a hose spraying in every which way, but the right way. Calm down, listen. Hear fast, speak slow.

You referenced Heb 8 which of course is a quotation of Jer 31:31ff. As jiggyfly said, who is this book written to? Yes, it is the Hebrews, the Jews.


Let’s talk about it for a moment. First, this covenant Jer 31:31 and Heb 8 is speaking of being made with “Israel.” So you agree Israel (collective noun) is a group of people who are Jews? Right? (Not the Gentiles, that is, us.)

Let’s step back in time and look at Hebrews 8:8ff that you quoted…

The twelve apostles were told “you shall also, sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (See Matt 19:28 & Lk 22:30)

Who are the 12 tribes to judge? The text says the “12 tribes of Israel” (ie. Israel)

Did the apostolic group judge Israel? OF COURSE THEY DID.; and they do. The twelve apostles were the basis of the New Israel, the nation to whom the kingdom would be given. {Remember Christ said, “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matt 21:43)} The kingdom was taken away and given to the remnant of the believing Jews.

It was the apostolic group that declared sins remitted or sins retained (John 20:23). It was the apostolic group that bound or loosed on earth because they had the keys of the kingdom of God. (Matt 16:9)

It was the apostolic group that declared the new covenant “first” to the Jews and urged them to accept the new prophet king or be “cut off from among the people’ (Acts 3:25,26)

There was a new Israel created in Christ. They were Jews! All Israel wasn’t Israel (Romans 9:6). There were those who said they were Jews and weren’t (Rev 2:9; 3:9) This new Israel was created by their submission to the new covenant.

THEY WERE NOT GENTILES!! Jeremiah 31:31ff (Heb 8:8ff) does not have Gentiles in mind. But this Israel was to be joined by Gentiles as the prophets had foretold (Isaiah 2:2ff and elsewhere). Who is it to whom the power was given to declare which Jews were in and which were out? THE APOSTLES!

I believe the apostolic group became the “founders” of the new Israel, constituted of believing Jews. They (declaratively) cut off from among the people all those who rejected Jesus Christ. That’s what Moses had warned would happen – the unbeliever would be cut off “from among the people”!

The “people” and the 12 tribes stand for Israel. Israel is used in two ways – to speak of the over all national group of Israelites and of the remnant of believers in the midst of the nation.


A new covenant was coming, new founding fathers, a new priesthood, new sacrificial system, a new commonwealth!! It was Jewish to the core!

It was the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises to the Jew. Hadn’t God said it would be through the seed of Abraham that the world would be blessed (Gen 12:3)? Hadn’t he said that the Gentiles would come running to the Jew to be taught about the God (Isaiah 2:2ff)? Didn’t he say that it would be the believing remnant that would take the good news to both Jew and Gentile (Isaiah 49:6 with Acts 13:47)?

Into that new commonwealth the Gentiles would be invited. Paul in Ephesians 2:20-22 speaks of Gentiles outside of Christ as being without God, without hope, strangers from the covenants of promise, and as aliens from the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL.

Now Paul was speaking of a time after Christ had been manifested (Eph 2:12). So what “commonwealth of Israel; was he speaking of? What commonwealthdid Israel have after the Cross of Christ? It ws the new commonwealth based on the new covenant. Whatever commonwealth it was, the Gentiles became a part of it (verse 19) and became “fellow-citizens” with “the saints.” They were invited into the Israelite commonwealth as God had always intedned them to be. BUT REMEMBER, it was the Jew first and also the Greek”. Not only did Paul say this in Romans 1:16, Peter said it in Acts 3:26; Paul said it in Acts 13:46; and Jesus said it in Acts 1:8.

The Gentiles were invited in to partake of the blessings of the olive tree to which they were foreign (Rom 11:16, 17) and in a bold statement Paul said the Gentiles were made partakers of JEWISH SPIRITUAL THINGS (Rom 15:27). Salvation, said Jesus, is of the Jew! Jesus Christ, said Paul, was made a “minister of the circumcision” (Rom 15:8). He was made a minister of the of the circumcision (Acts 10:36,42) for two things.

Paul names them both in Romans 15:8,9.

Why was Christ made a “minister of the circumcision”?

• That he might confirm the promises made unto the fathers,
• That the Gentiles might have reason to thank God for His mercy in permitting them to be fellow partakers WITH HIS PEOPLE of His blessings (verses 10-12)

When the world wants to know anything about God, they go to Jewish apostles and friends of the eye-witnesses. When they seek comfort, rebuke, admonition, edifying, and any other such thing, they turn to Moses, Isaiah, Matthew, Peter, Paul or Luke (who got his material from eye-witnesses). If they want a Mediator, Priest, Prophet or King they turn to the son of David, a Jew – the man, CHRIST JESUS (1 Tim 2:5)



Your servant in Messiah, Jesus The Christ,


Charles Jemeyson
[email protected]
San Antonio, Texas



"one mistake does not a character make"

 

[Eccl.12:13]

You keep throwing things “out of context” and acting like a fireman with a hose spraying in every which way, but the right way.

Why is it I answer ALL of you guys questions and you NEVER answer any of mine?

Here is one i asked of jiggyfly that he never answered and I'll ask the same of you;


Please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite? Let's read....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So are the 'we' above JUST the nation of Israel?

And what is God's defintion of sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let me ask you.....Do not we ALL sin?

Now do we ONLY sin by NOT loving God or NOT our neighbors? After all....that's what everybody says we must keep!

Or is it possible to sin by stealing, but murdering, by coveting, by commiting fornication, by telling lies? Are not ALL these sins!

And are not all these from God's laws that He GAVE to Moses? They are not Moses laws!!!

This is pretty simple.


.

 

[Xanderoc]

Can you show me any place in the letter to the Hebrews that proves Paul was the author?
When it comes to the punishment written of in Isaiah 66, did it ever occur to you that it has already come to pass? Again Eccl. you could save yourself a lot of confusion if you would learn how to read the scriptures within the context given.

When has the lord come with fire?

1 Thess 1: [sup]7[/sup]And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [sup]8[/sup]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Isaiah 66:[sup]15[/sup]For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

[sup]16[/sup]For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
This looks like the same time frame to me!!! So I ask again when did the lord come with flames of fire? MAKE FULL PROOF OF YOUR MINISTRY!!!

 

[Selene]

Really? Then please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite that can sin? Let's read....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So are the 'we' above JUST the nation of Israel? Is this another one of your 'group' tactics like you tried with 'all flesh'?

And what is God's defintion of sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let me ask you.....Do not we ALL sin?

Now do we ONLY sin by NOT loving God or NOT our neighbors? After all....that's what everybody says we must keep!

Or is it possible to sin by stealing, but murdering, by coveting, by commiting fornication, by telling lies? Are not ALL these sins!

And are not all these from God's laws that He GAVE to Moses? They are not Moses laws!!!



Let's look at the 'New Covenant'!


Heb.8
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Finding fault with WHO? God's laws? NO!! Finding fault with 'THEM', the people!

And what is it God puts now in our minds? "...I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts..."!

You want to know where it is God tells us to keep His dietary laws? It's right above!

The problem is that too many have been led astray and no longer think they must obey them.

Hello Eccl,

The Dietary laws was given only to ancient Israel. It was not given to the Gentile converts. St. Paul says that we can eat anything.

Romans 14:2-3, 14-15 For one believeth that he may eat all things: but he that is weak, let him eat herbs. Let not him that eateth, despise him that eateth not: and he that eateth not, let him not judge him that eateth. For God hath taken him to him...........I know, and am confident in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if, because of thy meat, thy brother be grieved, thou walkest not now according to charity. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Can you show me any place in the letter to the Hebrews that proves Paul was the author?
When it comes to the punishment written of in Isaiah 66, did it ever occur to you that it has already come to pass? Again Eccl. you could save yourself a lot of confusion if you would learn how to read the scriptures within the context given.

Again....here is your chance! Prove it through scriptures or history that it has happened!

Prove that;

[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Again we have the phrase, "...ALL FLESH.." that you have to deal with.....then the following....

[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

So ALL of the nation of Israel must have come to worship at Jerusalem.....and then....


[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

You must prove that ALL mankind came to worship the Lord....and THEN.....


[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

You must prove when they came they were able to see the men burning whose worms did not die!


Do you really want the readers to believe ALL of the above has already happened?

If so all you have to do is PROVE IT!!!!


Readers of this lesson......didn't I say there would be those that will try their best to get around what it is the word of God is saying?

Look at the attempts;

"All flesh does not really mean all flesh!"

"Prove that Paul is the author of Hebrews?" Do you REALLY want to go there just to attempt to prove a point? Do you REALLY want to dismiss the letters of Hebrews by suggesting Paul is NOT the writer?

Readers.....can you see just how far some will go when presented with something that goes against ALL they have been taught?

Here are more.......

Poking jokes; "Eccl., I would suggest that you enhance your calm. Perhaps eat some shellfish..."

Saying things that make NO sense, "(The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)"

Using their OWN mind when the word of God says otherwise, "I don't believe...", "...one will not be punished because of what they ate..."

Saying Isa.66 is, "...speaking to the exiles of Israel..." only, when God's word says, "...all flesh..." and "...all nations..."!


And now we have, "...did it ever occur to you that it has already come to pass?" Really? This has ALL happened before?



OK.......how about answering this one question. It's very simple! It ONLY requires a yes or no reply.


Will God's dietary laws be kept during His 1000 year rule here on earth?

.




.



.

 

[charlesj]

Why is it I answer ALL of you guys questions and you NEVER answer any of mine?

Here is one i asked of jiggyfly that he never answered and I'll ask the same of you;


Please tell me just who it is that Paul speaks of in the following? Is it ONLY the Israelite? Let's read....

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So are the 'we' above JUST the nation of Israel?

And what is God's defintion of sin?

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Now let me ask you.....Do not we ALL sin?

Now do we ONLY sin by NOT loving God or NOT our neighbors? After all....that's what everybody says we must keep!

Or is it possible to sin by stealing, but murdering, by coveting, by commiting fornication, by telling lies? Are not ALL these sins!

And are not all these from God's laws that He GAVE to Moses? They are not Moses laws!!!

This is pretty simple.


.

Eccl:

This chapter, chapter 10 starts out talking about the Law of Moses, then goes on speaking of the Law and the verse before your quote, verse 25, speaks to some Jews who are leaving the new covenant teachings and going back to the old law. The Hebrew writer warns them not to do this and in the verse you quoted, verse 26, the Hebrew writer tells them that they heard and had the truth, but if they fall away, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. The Jews are in the state of “unbelief” at this time.



No, he is NOT speaking to Gentiles at this time.

You asked, what is sin and then you give the defintion?? (Most everyone can quote 1 John 3:4 by heart)



You then ask "do we all sin?" answer: = Yes...

YOu then ask , "are not these all God's laws He gave to Moses?" "These are not Moses laws" - If God gave these laws to Moses and He did then they are called the Law of Moses, or the Mosaic Law... and they were ALL GIVEN TO ISRAEL. As a matter of fact there were 613 laws ISRAEL had to obey. This law was administrated by the Levitical Priesthood.



In the New Covenant, we have a new law, a new administrator from the Tribe of Judah (means praise), a new mediator, a new Priesthood. The old law was changed by God.



Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



Please don’t put me under the Law of Moses. I have REST & PEACE under my Lord Jesus Christ.



I hope I’ve answered your questions.



Love,

Charles Jemeyson

[email protected]

San Antonio, Texas



As a Christian, I am under the Law of Christ. In the New Covenant (Testament) you will NOT find Sabbath laws or penalities nor will you find the dietary laws that the Law of Moses had. Take a look at Acts 15 and see for yourself what the apostles told Gentiles in regard to what they had to do and didn't have to do.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[jiggyfly]

Again....here is your chance! Prove it through scriptures or history that it has happened!

Prove that;

[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Again we have the phrase, "...ALL FLESH.." that you have to deal with.....then the following....

[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

So ALL of the nation of Israel must have come to worship at Jerusalem.....and then....


[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

You must prove that ALL mankind came to worship the Lord....and THEN.....


[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

You must prove when they came they were able to see the men burning whose worms did not die!


Do you really want the readers to believe ALL of the above has already happened?

If so all you have to do is PROVE IT!!!!


Readers of this lesson......didn't I say there would be those that will try their best to get around what it is the word of God is saying?

Look at the attempts;

"All flesh does not really mean all flesh!"

"Prove that Paul is the author of Hebrews?" Do you REALLY want to go there just to attempt to prove a point? Do you REALLY want to dismiss the letters of Hebrews by suggesting Paul is NOT the writer?

Readers.....can you see just how far some will go when presented with something that goes against ALL they have been taught?

Here are more.......

Poking jokes; "Eccl., I would suggest that you enhance your calm. Perhaps eat some shellfish..."

Saying things that make NO sense, "(The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!)"

Using their OWN mind when the word of God says otherwise, "I don't believe...", "...one will not be punished because of what they ate..."

Saying Isa.66 is, "...speaking to the exiles of Israel..." only, when God's word says, "...all flesh..." and "...all nations..."!


And now we have, "...did it ever occur to you that it has already come to pass?" Really? This has ALL happened before?



OK.......how about answering this one question. It's very simple! It ONLY requires a yes or no reply.


Will God's dietary laws be kept during His 1000 year rule here on earth?

.




.



.

Your questions are unfounded because you err in understanding the context of Isaiah 66 and Hebrews 10.
I will show you as soon as you are ready to consider context when reading scripture, until then it would just be a futile act. You error in your understanding of God's new and better covenant through Christ and you want to ignore the dynamics of this new covenant even though it is simply and clearly expressed in the scriptures. You obviously don't want to deal with the new covenant nor it's dynamics, but when your ready we can start with the scriptures in 2 Corinthians 3 that you have been ignoring.