Hebrews 10:26-31

[Ferris Bueller]

Wow.....simply wow. “By the Keeping of the Commandments—- NO Flesh shall be Justified”....Are you really “ THAT” far gone ? ......This Goes WAY beyond your False, Perverted Gospel Of “ Lucky Repentance”......My Lord, you are in more Trouble than I ever dreamed....

The believer keeps his commandments because he is already made righteous in Christ by grace. The believer does not keep the commandments to become righteous. When you purposely sin you are either showing yourself to not already be righteous in Christ, or you are rejecting the righteousness you have received in willful unbelief.

Are you purposely not understanding the argument? I mean, I know you don't agree that works are the sign of being justified through faith in Christ. But you keep hearing it as 'works make you saved'. Are you doing that on purpose?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I am curious, can you describe for us such attitude that tells you, with certainty, that one did a good deed out of love?

Usually, if it is done with joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance, it is done in the love that is shed abroad in the heart through the Holy Ghost.

Love is expressed and perceived in various ways and forms ~ appearance. What you said there could be one. Others express love by crying, feeling sorry, worried or bothered, for example. The point is appearance may and may not be what they seem to be that is in the inside of a person. That’s why there are such as are called hypocrites, pretenders, fake, impostors. So, we can’t really tell, could we?

Love is a spiritual thing and is best perceived in the spirit. It is felt in the spirit more than it is felt by our physical make up. Besides the question “how do you know if he did those in love or out of love?” really is not if we can perceive love or not, for we can. Rather, the question is about the intent of the heart of the doer. Only God and the man knows that for certain. We do not know the true intent of the heart of another and can’t know for sure.

And so, the main point of the matter is how one reads the scriptures you quoted regarding the fruit of the tree. Is the fruit referring to good works or to something else or what? The reader must also be careful about context.

Tong2020 said: ↑
So in your thinking, one gets to know the heart of a person by looking at his attitude? If that were the case, then the truth that only God knows the heart of man is somewhat no longer true anymore.

Bingo. Except it was never true.

What is never true? That only God knows the heart of the man?

Tong
R1670

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I used to be a fornicating, drunken atheist....now I am none of these....”YOU” tell “ME” if I have a changed life.....

That's great. But are you full of greed and lust and hypocrisy? Fornication and drunkenness are just two deeds of the flesh. There are others. Pride, for example, is just as much a deed of the flesh as drunkenness and fornication are. The Pharisees would take comfort out of knowing they didn't do particular sins but they were profoundly guilty of other ones. They thought they were doing right in their righteousness but they were not. The greasy gracer is the modern day Pharisee. He abuses grace the way the Pharisees abused the law.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The most extreme.....the most Advanced “SOLID MEAT ” is this.....RESTING in the Finished Work Of The Cross ...

No it's not. The knowledge of salvation is the most elementary teaching of Christianity. That's baby milk knowledge. The knowledge of salvation is the food that babies start out eating. From there they grow up on the teachings distinguishing between evil and good in order to actually live the life of Christ that God saved them to live.

1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, a and of faith in God
Hebrews 6:1

13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
Hebrews 5:13​

Everybody loves baby milk, and it's easy to prepare and consume, but it's not the meat of the word that will grow you up to into the mature stature and image of Christ. You've been drinking baby milk for 55 years. It's time to grow up.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So, we can’t really tell, could we?

Godly love is distinguished from worldly, fleshly love by it's selflessness. It is given without consideration for personal gain and satisfaction, but rather given for the gain and satisfaction of the recipient, regardless of whether they are friend or foe, worthy or unworthy. That's why God's kind of love loves it's enemies. And that's why it can't be faked.

Christian forums are proof that you can't hide who you really are. Every time we post our character is on display. And how we treat those we consider enemies because of differing doctrines, or being offended, shows us if a person is just wearing sheep's clothing or if they really are a sheep and not a wolf. The wolf always comes out of the the wolf in Christians forums. You can't hide it. By their fruit you will know them. Not by their outer adornment, but by their fruit, their character.

 

[Behold]

To think that "being evil" isn't proof of the lack thereof, is also to place a smile on the devil's lips.

What you said make no sense.
Try again.

 

[Behold]

Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. 1 John 3:7-10There are surely things we're going to have legitimate differences about, but this just isn't one of those. It plainly tells us how we know a child of God from a child of the devil. .

Every self righteous legalist tries to find a verse that proves to them that they keep themselves saved.
Every self righteous legalist tries to find a verse that they believe proves that Salvation is : The Cross + Self effort.

The reason you can't understand this verse.... : "Satan comes as an angel of Light" and "his ministers as ministers of Righteousness", is that you don't yet understand that the Devil deceives you, using what you consider is "real proof".

Let me give you something that will help you, perhaps, find your way into the Light.

Its this.; Spiritual FRUIT can be FAKED.

Now you think on that till you understand what that means, as related to the verse i posted.

 

[Behold]

Here's your reality check: Only born again people have fruit.

Actually, the devil produces fruit that the babe in Christ will believe is real.
That's where you currently exist.

Notice this verse, again.. "
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness;"""""

Now, notice carefully, Ferris........"MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS">.

Do you have a clue as to what "righteousness" is?
Its all that spiritual fruit you are talking about.
And Satan's MINISTERS produce it.. and so does the DEVIL.

They FAKE IT.
Understand ????

Look at the verses, till you see it., because as of now, you don't see it yet.

Wake up.

"
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; """"

 

[Tong2020]

Godly love is distinguished from worldly, fleshly love by it's selflessness. It is given without consideration for personal gain and satisfaction, but rather given for the gain and satisfaction of the recipient, regardless of whether they are friend or foe, worthy or unworthy. That's why God's kind of love loves it's enemies. And that's why it can't be faked.

Christian forums are proof that you can't hide who you really are. Every time we post our character is on display. And how we treat those we consider enemies because of differing doctrines, or being offended, shows us if a person is just wearing sheep's clothing or if they really are a sheep and not a wolf. The wolf always comes out of the the wolf in Christians forums. You can't hide it. By their fruit you will know them. Not by their outer adornment, but by their fruit, their character.

I agree on most of what you say there, but not entirely.

For we can only see so much in a man as much as we are able to see and perceive. There are things in every man, secret from us, such as are the true intentions of his heart, which are beyond our ability to know. Needless to say, that is why there is only one righteous and true judge, Jesus Christ, for only He knows the man perfectly, even the secrets of man, even the true intentions of his heart.

Tong
R1673

 

[marks]

For we can only see so much in a man as much as we are able to see and perceive. There are things in every man, secret from us, such as are the true intentions of his heart, which are beyond our ability to know. Needless to say, that is why there is only one righteous and true judge, Jesus Christ, for only He knows the man perfectly, even the secrets of man, even the true intentions of his heart.

While I think this is true, still, people do tend to reveal a lot about themselves in spite of themselves, and even so on a forum. How we write, what we focus on, how we answer and don't answer questions, how we represent other people's views, this all can be very revealing.

When I'm posting back and forth with someone who seizes on some bit of wording of mine, reworks it a little, and reposts it to sound like I'm saying something else, then refutes that, for instance, this says to me it's more about getting a feeling of self-affirmation - sometimes even expressed with a "gotcha" word - than about having a sharing and constructive discussion.

Someone who asks a question to understand better something I already know they disagree with expresses something very different. Truly only Jesus knows the motives in the heart, but they are sometimes telegraphed by the keystrokes.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Every self righteous legalist tries to find a verse that proves to them that they keep themselves saved.
Every self righteous legalist tries to find a verse that they believe proves that Salvation is : The Cross + Self effort.

The reason you can't understand this verse.... : "Satan comes as an angel of Light" and "his ministers as ministers of Righteousness", is that you don't yet understand that the Devil deceives you, using what you consider is "real proof".

Let me give you something that will help you, perhaps, find your way into the Light.

Its this.; Spiritual FRUIT can be FAKED.

Now you think on that till you understand what that means, as related to the verse i posted.

Not only faked, but faked by our own selves, and then we accept that phonied up evidence, as if we have a relationship with Jesus. But when we are alone in the night, we still find we are alone.

May that not be!!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For we can only see so much in a man as much as we are able to see and perceive. There are things in every man, secret from us, such as are the true intentions of his heart, which are beyond our ability to know. Needless to say, that is why there is only one righteous and true judge, Jesus Christ, for only He knows the man perfectly, even the secrets of man, even the true intentions of his heart.

Tong
R1673

If you see someone living in sin you can know they are not born again. That's what the Bible says very plainly.....

1 John 3:6-10
6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
​

The born again person can't continue in his old life, because he is born again.

 

[justbyfaith]

That’s why there are such as are called hypocrites, pretenders, fake, impostors. So, we can’t really tell, could we?

Hypocrites cannot hide behind their hypocrisy for very long. Eventually, the bad fruit that is being borne by them will become evident to all.

Is the fruit referring to good works or to something else or what?

It is referring to something else.

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Of course, love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18), so that the fruit of the Spirit normally translates into works. And therefore the following is also true:

Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

What is never true? That only God knows the heart of the man?

Yes. But not exactly. In eternity where God dwells, there is no one but God in eternity past; and yet from there He sees the hearts of all men. So from that perspective, only God knows the hearts of men.

But that men can know the hearts of other men by judging their fruit is also a biblical truth.

What you said make no sense.
Try again.

Evidently it made sense to someone; for I got a like on that post.

Its this.; Spiritual FRUIT can be FAKED.

Do you have a clue as to what "righteousness" is?
Its all that spiritual fruit you are talking about.
And Satan's MINISTERS produce it.. and so does the DEVIL.

They FAKE IT.
Understand ????

Any time spiritual fruit is being faked, you can be sure that the person faking good fruit cannot hide their bad fruit for very long.

It should be clear that a corrupt tree cannot bear good fruit (Matthew 7:18); so if you taste the real fruit of a corrupt tree, it is going to taste like bad fruit.

Needless to say, that is why there is only one righteous and true judge, Jesus Christ,

Actually, that is not entirely the case.

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[justbyfaith]

When I'm posting back and forth with someone who seizes on some bit of wording of mine, reworks it a little, and reposts it to sound like I'm saying something else, then refutes that, for instance, this says to me it's more about getting a feeling of self-affirmation - sometimes even expressed with a "gotcha" word - than about having a sharing and constructive discussion.

I admit that I am the one that you must be referring to.

Do you think that such an attitude in debate constitutes bad fruit; or could it be that sometimes we can get caught up in a debate mentality and do such things in spite of ourselves?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There's nothing lucky about repenting from willful unbelief. God either lets you repent or he doesn't. He decides if, and how long, the door of repentance is open to the person who sins in willful unbelief. But the struggling, but believing saint, he remains and abides in Christ despite his failure, because he is not sinning in a trampling on and abuse of God's grace. The finished but ongoing ministry of Christ in heaven remains for that person to cover the bumps and scratches of growing up into Christ in faith. It does not remain for the person who purposely sins in unbelief.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left
Hebrews 10:26
​

I am officially “shaking the dust off of my feet”. Continue on in your willfully ignorant, Grace- Denying , ways.....I suggest that you spend your remaining time here on Earth praying that “ Falling From Grace” ,simply means enduring a Crippled Walk Of Faith and “ not” Eternal Damnation....VERY STRONG cases have been made for the latter view.....

 

[justbyfaith]

I am officially “shaking the dust off of my feet”. Continue on in your willfully ignorant, Grace- Denying , ways.....I suggest that you spend your remaining time here on Earth praying that “ Falling From Grace” ,simply means enduring a Crippled Walk Of Faith and “ not” Eternal Damnation....VERY STRONG cases have been made for the latter view.....

What you're not realizing is that neither @Ferris Bueller, nor me, denies the grace of God in any way.

But because you define grace as a license for immorality, and neither one of us is going to fall for such a teaching, you count us as denying grace.

When in all reality, what we are denying is the teaching that grace is a license for immorality; such as in your quote from Martin Luther.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am officially “shaking the dust off of my feet”. Continue on in your willfully ignorant, Grace- Denying , ways.....I suggest that you spend your remaining time here on Earth praying that “ Falling From Grace” ,simply means enduring a Crippled Walk Of Faith and “ not” Eternal Damnation....VERY STRONG cases have been made for the latter view.....

If it is one of the two, it would have to be eternal damnation...

Because neither one of us has a crippled walk of faith.

But I'm pretty certain that it is neither one of the two (if either one of us can be defined as having "fallen from grace").

But because neither one of us truly has "fallen from grace", truly it would be the case still, that those who have fallen from grace have either a crippled walk of faith or else eternal condemnation...

Neither of which applies either to me or @Ferris Bueller.

But your implication that either one of us may have "fallen from grace" is clearly against the rules of these boards.

And therefore, if you continue to say this, you can be certain that your posts will be reported.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That's great. But are you full of greed and lust and hypocrisy? Fornication and drunkenness are just two deeds of the flesh. There are others. Pride, for example, is just as much a deed of the flesh as drunkenness and fornication are. The Pharisees would take comfort out of knowing they didn't do particular sins but they were profoundly guilty of other ones. They thought they were doing right in their righteousness but they were not. The greasy gracer is the modern day Pharisee. He abuses grace the way the Pharisees abused the law.

Anybody who refers to the Grace Of God that thankfully is greater than all of our sins, and was purchased at a dreadful Cost to God's Precious Son —— Yes, ANY body that believes in “ greasy grace” must also believe in the “ Greasy Blood” That was Shed to Save us. Talk about “ trampling in the Blood”.....Shame on you AND your Blasphemous “ Grease Doctrine”.....
Lets just throw that Perverted Belief atop the pile of Hog- Wash that also consist of “ Lucky Repentance”.....They belong together....

 

[justbyfaith]

"Greasy grace" is a legitimate term for when people teach grace as a license for immorality.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Anybody who refers to the Grace Of God that thankfully is greater than all of our sins, and was purchased at a dreadful Cost to God's Precious Son —— Yes, ANY body that believes in “ greasy grace” must also believe in the “ Greasy Blood” That was Shed to Save us. Talk about “ trampling in the Blood”.....Shame on you AND your Blasphemous “ Grease Doctrine”.....

I'm not the one making God's grace greasy. I maintain that God's grace is NOT greasy. The doctrine of 'Easy believism' makes God's grace greasy, not me.