Hebrews 10:26-31

[justbyfaith]

So Stop Accusing Christians That they will go to hell if they make a mistake, Your Doing The Devils Work, Its not petty stuff like showing you are a liar when you are a liar, That's just dealing with the facts

You are slightly misrepresenting me there, friend.

I do not say that Christians will go to hell if they make a mistake; it will take more than a mere mistake for a believer to go to hell. We have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I am in agreement with @Ferris Bueller, and I think also with @Michiah-Imla, that if someone commits a deliberate sin in rebellion against the Lord, after having received the full knowledge of the truth, that there remains for them no more sacrifice for sins but a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the adversaries of the Lord. And it is also, literally, what we find in the passage that we are discussing in this very thread.

So, you have called me a liar again, I am reporting your post. That is what got many of your other posts deleted in this thread, wherein you were railing on me at that time also.

 

[HisLife]

You are slightly misrepresenting me there, friend.

I do not say that Christians will go to hell if they make a mistake; it will take more than a mere mistake for a believer to go to hell. We have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I am in agreement with @Ferris Bueller, and I think also with @Michiah-Imla, that if someone commits a deliberate sin in rebellion against the Lord, after having received the full knowledge of the truth, that there remains for them no more sacrifice for sins but a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation that will consume the adversaries of the Lord. And it is also, literally, what we find in the passage that we are discussing in this very thread.

So, you have called me a liar again, I am reporting your post. That is what got many of your other posts deleted in this thread, wherein you were railing on me at that time also.

Yea it's hard to hold you to account when you dodge questions delete your posts and my posts get deleted, But it is what it is, The fact is You admit you have deliberately Sinned after receiving the knowledge of the truth So you don't know where you stand... That's what you said, so by your own judgment and the judgment you put on others You deserve Hell, Your message is condemnation On those you know are already Born again as you have said your message is to Christians

 

[justbyfaith]

I have “Lived” your type of religion.....I used to be a Baby like you......I have seen and Lived both sides of the argument....You have not...

I know you were talking to @Ferris Bueller there...but I kind of think that you think that you are talking to both of us, so I will respond.

I have indeed, also, been on both sides of this argument.

And, when I was on your side of it, there were sins that I felt free to commit and didn't feel a qualm of conscience about committing them. I would just confess them every time and think that that covered it.

Then I spent some time in prayer to the Lord and asked Him to show me something in the Bible that would help me to stop those sins. And He led me to Ezekiel 33:11-20. In fact, it came up the next day in my systematic reading of the Old Testament.

It showed me that sin is more serious than I had previously thought. And it woke me up.

So, when I preach the passage in question, people will respond by saying, "That is in the Old Testament and it is not valid today".

Nevertheless, the Holy Ghost spoke to me through that passage and gave me truth...truth that has set me free.

Fact is, 2 Timothy 3:16 is talking about the Old Testament...and so is 2 Peter 1:3-4.

All scripture (in the Old and New Testaments) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness...it contains promises that will help us to be partakers of the divine nature.

That is the bottom line.

So, perhaps you ought to take a second look at the passage in question (Ezekiel 33:11-20) and ask the Lord if maybe it is the truth that will set you free...

Because I am almost certain that because you carry the doctrine that you carry, you are very much like I used to be...making excuses for a sinful lifestyle and committing sins that you think you are getting away with.

Chances are the Lord is not chastening you for these sins...because you may very well be illegitimate and not a true son...so you are going along thinking that you are somehow holy because of the lack of chastening when it may simply be true that you are not a subject of His chastening because you are not His...

At least, that is one of the ways that a man might see it who is looking at it from the outside.

You may in fact be very much a child of God...and perhaps He chastens you severely over the sins that you commit on a regular basis....because I believe that at one point you testified that you do commit sins on a regular basis.

Does He chasten you over them?

If He doesn't, then the Bible teaches us that you are illegitimate and not a true son (Hebrews 12:5-11).

Better get your heart right if that is the case.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yea it's hard to hold you to account when you dodge questions delete your posts and my posts get deleted, But it is what it is, The fact is You admit you have deliberately Sinned after receiving the knowledge of the truth So you don't know where you stand... That's what you said, so by your own judgment and the judgment you put on others You deserve Hell, Your message is condemnation On those you know are already Born again as you have said your message is to Christians

Well, if they deliberately sin after having received the full knowledge of the truth, chances are they were never born again; they just think that they are.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yea it's hard to hold you to account

Did you ever stop to think that it is not your job to hold me to account?

I am accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ; and I take that very seriously.

 

[HisLife]

Did you ever stop to think that it is not your job to hold me to account?

I am accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words, thou shalt be condemned I just go on your words, but it is hard to show when you can just delete them

 

[justbyfaith]

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words, thou shalt be condemned I just go on your words, but it is hard to show when you can just delete them

I promise you I won't delete any posts that you provide a link to.

As a matter of fact, I am looking forward to apologizing to you for the sin that I told you I would apologize to you for; as soon as you provide the link showing that I committed that sin.

 

[Behold]

If you see someone living in sin you can know they are not born again. That's what the Bible says very plainly.....

It would be nice if all the Born Again behaved correctly, but, that is not the Case.
The Good news is, God always sees them as Righteous as He is, and does not count their sin against them in Eternity, as this was resolved by Jesus on the Cross, on Earth....once and for all.

​

 

[Tong2020]

If you see someone living in sin you can know they are not born again. That's what the Bible says very plainly.....

1 John 3:6-10
6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
​

The born again person can't continue in his old life, because he is born again.

My point is that, we can know but only as much as we are able to see and perceive. We cannot know with absolute certainty. So we can still be mistaken.

What I can say with certainty, if I see one living in sin, is that he is sinning and needs help. Would I judge him as not born again? I’d rather not, and hope and pray that he stop living in sin.

Tong
R1683

 

[Behold]

Evidently it made sense to someone; for I got a like on that post.

Only be concerned about God liking it.
Dont be so very concerned about other Legalists joining you or liking you, as if you stay in that mind, you'll keep teaching what harms others if they believe you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...Who is in willful Sin? what Sin are you always talking about?

I'm talking about the person who sins deliberately, thinking they are safe to do so in this New Covenant. This isn't about the honest struggle with sin genuine believers are going to have. It's about the arrogant person who, "invoke(s) a blessing on themselves, thinking, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way,”"—Deuteronomy 29:19. And it's no sin in particular. It's the attitude of contempt for the grace of God is the point of consideration here.

Sure If you are born again You will do works But who are you to judge, It's not your responsibility, Your job should be to preach the Gospel...

1 Corinthians 5:1-12 makes it very clear that we are in fact to judge the church.....

9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.” ​

But you oppose the Gospel And say Jesus Didn't Die for all sins....

There is no sacrifice for the unrepentant rejection of the gospel when you have the full knowledge and revelation of the gospel by the Spirit. Can only those who never believed in the first place commit that sin? I don't know. But what does it matter. Unbelief is unbelief. The person in unbelief is not saved.

...You don't Know what work God Does in someone's Life, I will give you an example If someone Was An Adulterer or murderer, And they Heard the truth and where born again, Then they Decided not to Cheat On there Partner Or didn't end up in a situation where they would've killed someone You wouldn't know about it, You would just see a normal Person, The fact that God worked in there life and they didn't kill a person last night you would never see or know anything about it, You overstep your boundaries And oppose The Gospel for your make-belief ideas

This has nothing to do with judging people's past sins that they have changed their mind about and don't do anymore. What we're talking about here is if someone is an adulterer or a murderer he is to be kicked out of the fellowship of believers and turned over to satan so they can be brought to repentance. Paul says to do this so they can be saved when Jesus comes back—1 Corinthians 5:5. A clear indication that they are in no way saved in the unrepentant condition they are presently in.

It's a misguided sympathy of the church to let them remain in the church. All that does is enable them to think they are somehow okay with God and ready for the judgment while they are in the state of willful sin that they are in. The seeker friendly church of the last 40 years or so is responsible for this misguided evangelistic effort to reach lost people. It has destroyed the church. IMO, the damage it has done is irreversible. The real church will have to abandon the present church system to be clean again.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"Greasy grace" is a legitimate term for when people teach grace as a license for immorality.[/QUOTE]


You would be “ Spot On” if anybody ever taught that. I know that I don’t ......nor anybody else that I have ever heard of.....
It’s simply your Perennial excuse that proves you do not know what Grace is.....the VERY THING that Saves a person and sadly you don’t understand it....Believe in it....Trust in it....and you sure as heck don’t LIVE in it.....
Grace-has never been extended to you....you need to be VERY conserved.....
If you dislike this post....go crying to the powers that be.....Baby.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your teaching is what makes grace greasy, not mine. If you are sure that your teaching does not make grace greasy explain why grace is not greasy in your teaching.

No. I have explained my Doctrine too many times already and you are Blind to it...You think one more time is going to make any difference? All I can do is throw it out there and those that have been given “ eyes to see” by the Holy Spirit will “ get it “...... Grace Deniers and Lucky Repenters will continue to be “ Blind Guides” That will , along with their Ignorant Supporters , will wind up in a ditch....

 

[justbyfaith]

Only be concerned about God liking it.
Dont be so very concerned about other Legalists joining you or liking you, as if you stay in that mind, you'll keep teaching what harms others if they believe you.

My point was that someone understood it...whereas you tried to say that it was not easily understood.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I know you were talking to @Ferris Bueller there...but I kind of think that you think that you are talking to both of us, so I will respond.

I have indeed, also, been on both sides of this argument.

And, when I was on your side of it, there were sins that I felt free to commit and didn't feel a qualm of conscience about committing them. I would just confess them every time and think that that covered it.

Then I spent some time in prayer to the Lord and asked Him to show me something in the Bible that would help me to stop those sins. And He led me to Ezekiel 33:11-20. In fact, it came up the next day in my systematic reading of the Old Testament.

It showed me that sin is more serious than I had previously thought. And it woke me up.

So, when I preach the passage in question, people will respond by saying, "That is in the Old Testament and it is not valid today".

Nevertheless, the Holy Ghost spoke to me through that passage and gave me truth...truth that has set me free.

Fact is, 2 Timothy 3:16 is talking about the Old Testament...and so is 2 Peter 1:3-4.

All scripture (in the Old and New Testaments) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness...it contains promises that will help us to be partakers of the divine nature.

That is the bottom line.

So, perhaps you ought to take a second look at the passage in question (Ezekiel 33:11-20) and ask the Lord if maybe it is the truth that will set you free...

Because I am almost certain that because you carry the doctrine that you carry, you are very much like I used to be...making excuses for a sinful lifestyle and committing sins that you think you are getting away with.

Chances are the Lord is not chastening you for these sins...because you may very well be illegitimate and not a true son...so you are going along thinking that you are somehow holy because of the lack of chastening when it may simply be true that you are not a subject of His chastening because you are not His...

At least, that is one of the ways that a man might see it who is looking at it from the outside.

You may in fact be very much a child of God...and perhaps He chastens you severely over the sins that you commit on a regular basis....because I believe that at one point you testified that you do commit sins on a regular basis.

Does He chasten you over them?

If He doesn't, then the Bible teaches us that you are illegitimate and not a true son (Hebrews 12:5-11).

Better get your heart right if that is the case.

Assuming this post is full of your usual Blather....I ignored it...

Hey, “His Life!” ......please notify mean If their is anything in his latest Post that is of any value to “ The Brethren ....otherwise, I will continue to try to ignore it - His and Bueller’s Legalism also....

 

[justbyfaith]

You would be “ Spot On” if anybody ever taught that. I know that I don’t ...

Actually you do.

...nor anybody else that I have ever heard of.....

Then you never read Jude 1:3-4 in the NIV...

It’s simply your Perennial excuse that proves you do not know what Grace is.....the VERY THING that Saves a person and sadly you don’t understand it....Believe in it....Trust in it....and you sure as heck don’t LIVE in it.....
Grace-has never been extended to you....you need to be VERY conserved.....
If you dislike this post....go crying to the powers that be.....Baby.

I'm not really going to go crying to anyone because what you say is very simply a lie.

I know that I am a recipient of the grace of God ever since I told Him, "I don't know if You're real but I'm going to start reading Your word and doing what it says; and I know that if You're real You are going to reveal Yourself to me."

He inundated me with such joy unspeakable and full of glory that I will never be the same.

Even when I stumbled and fell, I never forgot that unspeakable joy and strove to get it back when I lost it. And I did eventually get it back, too.

And the grace of the Lord in my life has changed my life to the extent that I'm not going to treat you, in return, the way that you are treating me.

I will not stoop to that.

 

[justbyfaith]

Assuming this post is full of your usual Blather....I ignored it...

Hey, “His Life!” ......please notify mean If their is anything in his latest Post that is of any value to “ The Brethren ....otherwise, I will continue to try to ignore it - His and Bueller’s Legalism also....

You are still very accountable on your day of judgment for the contents of that message...because the Lord knows that it was sent to you...and your not reading it may indeed mean that you will go to hell instead of heaven because it may have been the very message that saved you...

But that is not my responsibility...because I was faithful to give you the message...and your not reading it is not because I hardened my heart...

 

[Tong2020]

Hypocrites cannot hide behind their hypocrisy for very long. Eventually, the bad fruit that is being borne by them will become evident to all.

Perhaps. But until how long?

And so, the main point of the matter is how one reads the scriptures you quoted regarding the fruit of the tree. Is the fruit referring to good works or to something else or what?

It is referring to something else.

Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Of course, love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18), so that the fruit of the Spirit normally translates into works. And therefore the following is also true:

Tit 3:14, And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

The following are the scriptures you quoted:

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

So, you are saying that the fruits there refers to those mentioned in Gal.5:22-23? And that would be for the good tree right? So, I guess it is reasonable to think that for the bad tree, the fruit would be the opposite of the fruits of the good tree, am I right?

In the false prophet’s hypocritical and disguisedly act of being a good tree, what fruit would you see? Would he be peaceful, good, meek, gentle? Yes, that would be the disguise, right? Now, how then that Jesus said in Mt. 7:16 that you shall know them by their fruit, if the fruit we see is not their true fruit but their disguise fruit of joy, peace, meekness, gentleness...? And if they are good at it, and most likely are, then we might have been devoured before we know it. In that sense, it makes be think that the fruit is something else.

Tong2020 said: ↑
What is never true? That only God knows the heart of the man?

Yes. But not exactly. In eternity where God dwells, there is no one but God in eternity past; and yet from there He sees the hearts of all men. So from that perspective, only God knows the hearts of men.

But that men can know the hearts of other men by judging their fruit is also a biblical truth.

So, you don’t really believe the truth that only God knows the heart of the man? Well,......

That only God knows the true intents of man’s heart and even the deepest secret of man is the truth.

That the Christian can know the hearts of other men by their fruit is also true, but only as much as he can see and perceive, but not know with absolute certainty.

Tong2020 said: ↑
Needless to say, that is why there is only one righteous and true judge, Jesus Christ,

Actually, that is not entirely the case.

1Co 6:1, Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
1Co 6:2, Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3, Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

So you don’t really believe that Jesus Christ is the ONLY ONE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS Judge? Well,....

Out of context sir, if you quoted those to support your position that it is not entirely true that Jesus Christ is the only true and righteous judge.

Tong
R1684

 

[justbyfaith]

So, you are saying that the fruits there refers to those mentioned in Gal.5:22-23? And that would be for the good tree right? So, I guess it is reasonable to think that for the bad tree, the fruit would be the opposite of the fruits of the good tree, am I right?

In the false prophet’s hypocritical and disguisedly act of being a good tree, what fruit would you see? Would he be peaceful, good, meek, gentle? Yes, that would be the disguise, right? Now, how then that Jesus said in Mt. 7:16 that you shall know them by their fruit, if the fruit we see is what we see in them? And if they are good at it, and most likely are, then we might have been devoured before we know it. In that sense, it makes be think that the fruit is something else.

The false prophet's "fruit" would be the works of the flesh...

Gal 5:19, Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Out of context sir,

No...not out of context.

if you quoted those to support your position that it is not entirely true that Jesus Christ is the only true and righteous judge.

I quoted them not to say that Jesus Christ is not a true and righteous judge; but to say that we also will judge the world and angels at the time of judgment.

 

[Tong2020]

justbyfaith said: ↑
Luk 13:24, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Strive to enter Your not there yet, You have to put your Faith in Jesus

@justbyfaith and @Ferris Bueller also,

It just came to me, do you remember John 10 about the sheep?

Jesus is the good shepherd of the sheep. The sheep are the saved. What do you know of the nature of a sheep? In the nature of a sheep, does it ever desire to be away from the flock and his shepherd that cares and feeds him, and keep him safe?

Tong
R1685