Who founded your church?

[Marymog]

Mary, I suggested you read Romans chapter 6. You clearly didn't, believing your knowledge of you own church's false theories would suffice.

Backlit, why do you believe your knowledge of Scripture is superior to that of the men of The Church and the Protestant men that disagree with you in this matter??

 

[Marymog]

Oh the irony. You refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that anyone has a personal relationship with God, you belittle and sarcastically ascribe learning from others who also have such a relationship and the combined wisdom becoming effectual to understanding the scripture, then you hypocritically go to other men yourself without any reference to scripture as you demonstrated above!!.

Huh....I refuse to acknowledge.....What???

Yes, I openly admit that I go to other men to better understand the Truth of Scripture. I go to the men of The Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Scripture tells us to go to The Church to settle our differences. You don't go to the Church to settle differences you go inside your own brain and battle it out and then come up with your truth and pretend the Spirit brought you to that truth....which is opposite of everyone elses Spirit led truth!!! Can you see the conundrum you are in with your false belief???

Scripture doesnt say that each individual man is the pillar and foundation of truth; it says The Church is. Put away your false belief that YOU are!!

 

[Marymog]

Nice try. Now read verse 27. "behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet....
Here is a man of wealth, authority and influence. He had his own chariot, a servant to drive it, and a scroll of scripture which in such times would have been very expensive. He had money in other words. He was also on a major trade route returning to north Africa which was like all trade routes in those days, would have been frequented by robbers and highwaymen...a la the good Samaritan parable. Being an important dignitary of government, the queen herself would have ensured he was well protected by a force of armed soldiers, likely on horseback or camels. Mary, that baptism was about as public as you can get, and you can well believe those soldiers would have taken no small interest in the proceedings, very likely vetting and frisking Philip before he even came close to the eunuch, and taking great interest in his baptism, speaking of it among themselves for some time afterward. In fact, historians tell us that from that one incident, a powerful Christian Sabbath keeping church sprang up in Ethiopia and remains to this day. Even the fact that the baptism was recorded by Luke (the writer of Acts) tells us that it was anything but private.

Ummmmm vs 27 does't say that it was done in public so your point is mute.

How about if we read vs 38 which definitively says who went to the water: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Soooooo you want to add to scripture that that all the people that were with the Eunuch went down to the water to watch the baptism even though Scripture doesn't say that they did???? OK...I will split that one with you 50/50!!! I believe it possible that all those people went down to the water to watch (even though Scripture doesn't say they did)!!

Moving on to Acts 16 when the jailer and his entire household were baptized. No mention of the baptism taking place in public. What is your interpretation of that passage????

Bible Study Mary

 

[Truther]

Like I said before - because you ignorantly isolate Acts 2:38, like most Scripturally-bankrupt people - you don't understand the rest of the verses pertaining to Baptism.

BOTH Peter and Paul Baptized entire households based on the faith of the leader of those households.
Peter baptized the house hold of Cornelius - and Paul baptized the households of the Philippian Jailer and Stephanas.

Households - especially in the 1st century were multi-generational. Under the same roof, you had the elderly, the other adults - and CHILDREN of ALL ages.

Do your HOMEWORK before posting next time.
This is embarrassing . . .

The RCC skips entire adult Acts 2:38 fulfilling households for baptism and baptizes newborns instead.

To make matters worse, they sprinkle instead of immerse.

Even worse than that, they omit repentance and the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

How embarrassing.

 

[Truther]

exactly what do I need to do?

Simply be baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins per Acts 2:38.

Call a United Pentecostal church to baptize you.

 

[Marymog]

The RCC skips entire adult Acts 2:38 fulfilling households for baptism and baptizes newborns instead.

To make matters worse, they sprinkle instead of immerse.

Even worse than that, they omit repentance and the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

How embarrassing.

Yup Truther....You are right!! @BreadOfLife is wrong.

What Christianity teaches now and has taught for 2,000 years about baptism is all based in that one passage...Acts 2:38....Throw out all other passages about baptism....BOL....You should gracefully bow out on this one!!

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Illuminator]

WHAT ARE THE ROMAN CATACOMBS?
The catacombs are underground tunnels that were forged out of soft rock. They are long, marrow winding corridors. The dead were buried in the walls on either side. From time to time, going through these corridors, one comes to a wider space like a room. In these rooms the Christians would gather for the sacrifice of the Mass so as to worship free from the pagan’s persecutions.

Burial in the catacombs stopped when the barbarians plundered Rome. The popes removed the relics of the saints and martyrs from the catacombs. The catacombs, once abandoned, were gradually forgotten and not discovered again until the end of the sixteenth century. Most famous of the catacombs is that of St. Callistus, where many of the popes were buried after they were martyred for the faith.

HOW THE CATACOMBS BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH TODAY

An authentic Catholic catechism, containing to true Catholic teachings, could be composed from the pictures and inscriptions on the tombs and walls of ancient catacombs of the first three centuries. Pictures, medals, and inscriptions in the catacombs identify the faith of the early Christians with the Catholic faith.

The catacombs prove that the first Christians believed that Jesus Christ is true God and true Man. They also believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the holy Eucharist, the divine institution of the papacy, the dignity of the mother of God, the intercession of the saints, purgatory, prayers for the deceased.

The emblem of the fish, ichthys, was frequently used in the catacombs. It is a symbol of the Lord Jesus, for the Greek word ichthys means “fish” and its letters are the initials for “Jesus Christ, God’s Son, Savior.” When Christians spoke of “receiving the fish”, they meant to receive Jesus in Holy communion.

Frequently, pictures of our Savior in the catacombs reveal him as the Good Shepherd., carrying the lost sheep on his shoulders. This is the ancient biblical form which reveals the same message as our modern devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. A number of people are sitting around a table on which is bread and fish.

Death and resurrection were often in the minds of the early Christians, as indicated by the pictures of Noah and the ark, Jonah and the whale, Daniel in the lions’ den, and the raising of Lazarus. Their faith in resurrection and eternal life gave them courage in facing death under persecution. There is also the famous account of Tarsicius being martyred a he took the holy Eucharist, the bread of life, to Christian prisoners.

The eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass was offered in the catacombs on the altars under which rested the bodies of martyrs. Catholic altars even today have “altar stones” in which the relics of saints and martyrs were placed by bishops when they consecrated the altar stones.

A Catechism of the Catholic Church, by Robert J. Fox. Copyright© Franciscan Herald Press, pgs. 20, 21

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hey Lady,

Idolatry is the worshiping of a false God. The Church does not support or teach any member of it's flock to worship a false God! So if you can prove that those people that you see kneeling in front of a statue are actually worshiping that statue then you would have a case of idolatry.

I suspect that those people that you see kneeling in front of a statue of Mary are not worshiping the statue or Mary. They are using the statue as a visual reminder of His mother. The Church teaches that Catholics are to love, respect and adore Mary just like her son and God did. Do you love, respect and adore the mother of Jesus?

Curious Mary

PS: In all fairness and to 'keep it real' there are many Protestants that 'idolize' Mary and it is NOT true that "most Catholics kneel at an idol of Mary"!! It has been my experience, as a Catholic instead of a biased Protestant, that your statement is not true. Why were you so unfair in your statement by only going after Catholics?

If you don't want to heed the warning Jesus gave you in His letter to the RCC/Orthodox, that is up to you.

 

[Behold]

In other words YOU couldn't provide me with an example of "Remembrannce" being defined as "merely symbolic", either.
That's what I thought. . . .

I can provide you again with the word as used in the bible, or i can provide you with the Greek word, that is correctly translated as remembrance, and if you dont like the word, or the translation.... that would be something that you can work on.
The reality is, 1 Corinthians 11:24 is not going to change any time soon.
So, maybe you should.

 

[Behold]

What God commands absolutley matters - YOUR disapproval, notwithstanding . . .

Its not a command.
You are rewriting Matthew 28 to replace "do all that i have commanded", with your religious organizations hereticL rewrite of the verse.... as you are stating it, as """command to be water baptized."
The verse does not command that...

Also, here is something else your religious organization missed.
In Mark 16:16, with Jesus talking only to Jews, He tells them to go and make disciples..
After this, Jesus chose Paul to be the Gentile Apostle, "in the time of the gentiles", and we have Paul what Paul refers to as= "My Gospel".
This is the one your religious organization rejects.
And that one, has nothing to do with Water., which is why PAUL told you, that "Christ sent me not to water baptize".

Understand now, that....Its the "Gospel of the Grace of God"... "justification by faith, without works", and certainly without water., that is Paul's Gospel, which is the one that real Christians understand and teach.

 

[Marymog]

If you don't want to heed the warning Jesus gave you in His letter to the RCC/Orthodox, that is up to you.

Ummmmm.......Lets try this again. The Church does not condone, teach, accept, support or teach any member of it's flock to worship idols sooooo if you are suggesting that The Church is OK with it...you would be wrong so there is no warning to heed!!!!

You dodged my other questions: The Church teaches that Catholics are to love, respect and adore Mary just like her son and God did. Do you love, respect and adore the mother of Jesus?

Why were you so unfair in your statement by only going after Catholics?

Are you going to at least TRY and answer them???

 

[Truther]

Yup Truther....You are right!! @BreadOfLife is wrong.

What Christianity teaches now and has taught for 2,000 years about baptism is all based in that one passage...Acts 2:38....Throw out all other passages about baptism....BOL....You should gracefully bow out on this one!!

Keeping it real....Mary

Keep Acts 2:38 real.

Make Acts 2:38 Great Again.

Don't misrepresent Acts 2:38.

No more fake scriptural news.

Don't be a scriptural, liberal, "CNN/MSNBC/RCC contributor".

 

[BreadOfLife]

You see, I told you, Apostolic succession ceased to propagate shortly after the death of the 1st century Church. Your heretic mentor, Ignatius, clearly demonstrates that. Jesus said that 'once in heaven, we will be like the angels' , or when Paul said '...the stomach for food, and food for the stomach, but God will do away with both'. There will be no sewage system or excrement in heaven, so where in the world do you get the idea that Christ currently inhabits a corporeal body, ....that his elect can feed off of?
Like I keep saying, Catholic dogma undermines its own grounds for authority.

You don't get it at ALL.
We will have GLORIFIED bodies like that of Christ.

1 John 3:2-3
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Cor. 15:51-52
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

That's what the "Resurrection" is ALL about.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The RCC skips entire adult Acts 2:38 fulfilling households for baptism and baptizes newborns instead.
To make matters worse, they sprinkle instead of immerse.
Even worse than that, they omit repentance and the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
How embarrassing.

Like I keep telling you - because you ignorantly isolate Acts 2:38 and divorce it fro ALL other verses regarding Baptism - you LOSE your persepctive.

Now - tell me WHY both Peter and Paul Baptuzed entire households (adults & children) based on the faith of the leaders of those households.
And TRY to respond with something remotely intelligent . . .

 

[DNB]

You don't get it at ALL.
We will have GLORIFIED bodies like that of Christ.

1 John 3:2-3
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Cor. 15:51-52
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

That's what the "Resurrection" is ALL about.

But glorified bodies are not necessarily physical or corporeal, and definitely not temporal. They more akin to spirits, not high maintenance, flesh and bone, excrement excreting avatars, obviously!

Your Catholic dogma of transubstantiation is entirely fallacious and blasphemous, clearly.

Christ, currently does not have flesh or blood!
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1 Corinthians 15:35-53
15:35. But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" 36. You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37. and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43. it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44. it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45. So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52. in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I can provide you again with the word as used in the bible, or i can provide you with the Greek word, that is correctly translated as remembrance, and if you dont like the word, or the translation.... that would be something that you can work on.
The reality is, 1 Corinthians 11:24 is not going to change any time soon.
So, maybe you should.

I'm familiar with the word in Greek as well as English.
What I asked of YOU was for proof that this word "Remembrance" (ἀνάμνησις/anámnēsis) is used SOLELY when speaking about symbols and not reality.

If you can't do that - then just say so and move one . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

But glorified bodies are not necessarily physical or corporeal, and definitely not temporal. They more akin to spirits, not high maintenance, flesh and bone, excrement excreting avatars, obviously!

Your Catholic dogma of transubstantiation is entirely fallacious and blasphemous, clearly.

Christ, currently does not have flesh or blood!
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

1 Corinthians 15:35-53
15:35. But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?" 36. You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37. and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43. it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44. it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45. So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47. The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49. Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52. in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

WRONG.

- Jesus was hungry and ATE in His glorified state (Luke 24:40-43).
- We will celebrate the Wedding Supper of the Lamb in Heaven (Rev. 19:6-9).
- Jesus told His Apostles that He would not drink again of the fruit of the vine until He drank it with them in His Father's Kingdom (Matt. 26:29).

Spirits don't eat and drink.
If you don't believe in the Resurrection - then you have NO HOPE . . .

 

[Behold]

I'm familiar with the word in Greek as well as English.
What I asked of YOU was for proof that this word "Remembrance" (ἀνάμνησις/anámnēsis) is used SOLELY when speaking about symbols and not reality.If you can't do that - then just say so and move one . . .

Jesus is the proof.
Jesus says..>"do this in REMEMBRANCE of me.

I didnt say it, He said it.

Do you understand the word "remembrance"?
Do you need a dictionary?

So, if all that is not "reality" to you, then blame your religious organization.
I do.

Now let me tell you how they flipped you into this literal idea of the bread and the juice being LITERAL.

This happened when some leaders who may not be born again, read..."eat my flesh and drink my blood", and decided that Jesus means this LITERALLY.
So they created this idea that their Priest have "magic power" that allows them to turn juice and a cookie INTO JESUS, Himself, that you are to eat.
So, that is all deception....
Notice...
The same Jesus who is GOD, told you in Leviticus that you can't DRINK BLOOD......any type.....including a HUMAN's.

So, COMMUNION= is not LITERAL.....its SYMBOLIC, yet, when deceived people create A MAN MADE RELIGION THAT can't rightly divide between allegory, symbolism, vs LITERAL, then they breed horrible theology, and their members end up completely deceived.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Its not a command.
You are rewriting Matthew 28 to replace "do all that i have commanded", with your religious organizations hereticL rewrite of the verse.... as you are stating it, as """command to be water baptized."
The verse does not command that...

Matt. 28:19-20
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

That is a COMMAND - not a suggestion.

Also, here is something else your religious organization missed.
In Mark 16:16, with Jesus talking only to Jews, He tells them to go and make disciples..
After this, Jesus chose Paul to be the Gentile Apostle, "in the time of the gentiles", and we have Paul what Paul refers to as= "My Gospel".
This is the one your religious organization rejects.
And that one, has nothing to do with Water., which is why PAUL told you, that "Christ sent me not to water baptize".

Understand now, that....Its the "Gospel of the Grace of God"... "justification by faith, without works", and certainly without water., that is Paul's Gospel, which is the one that real Christians understand and teach.

NONSENSE.
I already explained to you WHY Paul ,ade this hyperbolic statement about Baptism.

1 Cor. 1:10-17 is ALL about the problem with factions that was occurring in the Corinthian Church. But because YOU ignorantly isolate one verse (v. 17) - you miss the entire point of Paul's rebuke of the Corinthians. He wanted NO credit for himself or for any of the other leaders that they were following. ALL glory belonged to Christ.

Read - and LEARN . . .

1 Cor. 1:10-17
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

[Behold]

NONSENSE.
I already explained to you WHY Paul ,ade this hyperbolic statement about Baptism.

You are just echoing your religious organization's theology.

"Jesus sent me not", is not "hyperbole".

"you must be born again", is not "hyperbole".

Every single water baptism that is found in the Acts of the Apostles, happens AFTER someone BELIEVES FIRST......and is born again....is not hyperbole.

Let me prove it.
Take Jesus off the Cross, and put Him back into Heaven.
He never died .

Now Go and water baptize yourself , 456 times, next week.
Why are you not born again?
Why are you NOT BORN AGAIN, ?????

Thats right, you can't answer that honestly, if at all..., unless you deny a water cult's entire deceived heresy, regarding "water regeneration".