Who founded your church?

[BreadOfLife]

You are actually right in part . but what Tree is ROME of herself ,,,,,,,,the bad one .
I will stick to the one tree , JESUS . Let men preach their religion , as for me I will sound out and point only to Christ .
Not to corrupt theologies and foundations such as those .

The Catholic Church goes all the way back to the Apostles themselves.
Peter and Paul built the Church in Rome.

Here's what John's student - and 1st century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch had to say about this Church - while John was presumably STILL alive:
Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

I belong to the original Church founded By Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) and profliferated by His Apostles and their successors.
NONE of your splinters are the original Church. They are splinters - or splinters of splinters of the original Church.

 

[FHII]

Ummmmm, not sure where you're going with this rant - but we were discussing whther or not the Apostles had been Baptized.
Please stick to the topic of the cponversation - or move out of the way . . .

I apologize if someone brought this up, but the Bible indirectly hints that at least some were water baptized. Now, note my position on this, as I've stated before: it is good, but not necessary. Furthermore, there are many types of baptism beside water baptism. However, some Apostles were water baptized.

John 1:35-37 KJV
Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; [36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! [37] And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

I am going to try to keep this as short as possible. At least 2 of 12 Apostles were disciples of John the Baptist. One of them was Andrew who was Peter's brother. Philip and Nathaniel lived in the same city as Andrew and Peter and knew the same prophecies. It is reasonable to suspect they were disciples of John the Baptist.

Now who was the other disciple of John the Baptist? I suspect it was John the Revelator. His brother was James. So at least 2 were baptized as disciples of John the Baptist, but as many as 6 were followers of John.

Now there is something else... Jesus did baptize... BUT NOT WITH WATER!

Someone put up this "proof" that Jesus baptized:

John 3:22 KJV
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Well, John said himself Jesus woul baptize with the HG and with fire... But lets look a chapter ahead:
John 4:1-2 KJV
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, [2] (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

So no... Jesus didn't water baptise. But his disciples did. All 12 of them, I presume. This was a water baptism, as the context compares what Jesus did (through his disciples) to what John the Baptist did.

Now if they baptized... I'm assuming they knew how.

 

[DNB]

And nobody said it was.
It IS, however, glorified FLESH - not corruptible flesh.

Jesus is in Heaven - BODILY and spiritually.

Flesh does not inherit the Kingdom, therefore, you can't eat his flesh and drink his blood.
Sorry, maybe try juice and crackers instead if you actually just want something to eat?

 

[theefaith]

I apologize if someone brought this up, but the Bible indirectly hints that at least some were water baptized. Now, note my position on this, as I've stated before: it is good, but not necessary. Furthermore, there are many types of baptism beside water baptism. However, some Apostles were water baptized.

John 1:35-37 KJV
Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; [36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! [37] And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

I am going to try to keep this as short as possible. At least 2 of 12 Apostles were disciples of John the Baptist. One of them was Andrew who was Peter's brother. Philip and Nathaniel lived in the same city as Andrew and Peter and knew the same prophecies. It is reasonable to suspect they were disciples of John the Baptist.

Now who was the other disciple of John the Baptist? I suspect it was John the Revelator. His brother was James. So at least 2 were baptized as disciples of John the Baptist, but as many as 6 were followers of John.

Now there is something else... Jesus did baptize... BUT NOT WITH WATER!

Someone put up this "proof" that Jesus baptized:

John 3:22 KJV
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

Well, John said himself Jesus woul baptize with the HG and with fire... But lets look a chapter ahead:
John 4:1-2 KJV
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, [2] (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

So no... Jesus didn't water baptise. But his disciples did. All 12 of them, I presume. This was a water baptism, as the context compares what Jesus did (through his disciples) to what John the Baptist did.

Now if they baptized... I'm assuming they knew how.

apostles baptized outwardly and Christ inwardly with the grace of God the fruits of his passion and death

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Christian baptism
Christ and his church are one
He is already delegating his authority to the apostles

 

[Truther]

Hold on....Hold on. Abandon commentary???? Which I can probably safely predict you mean interpretation????

I am willing to bet if I checked the last 100-200 post from you on this forum if I could find “commentary” on scripture from you!!! I will bet you 1 week of silence (no posting) on this forum. If I can’t find any “commentary” from you I will be silent for one week! Deal?

I am speaking of your doctrinal creeds derived from commentary, not our little chit chat.

I am pointing folks back to becoming sola scriptura.

You RCC'ers are pointing them to read extra Biblical literature.

C'mon, man!

 

[Truther]

And according to YOUR moronic logic - after the Apostles died, the Chgurch disappeared - except for a tiny "remnant" - then reappeared in the 16th century.

Talk about man-made fairy tales . . .

Correct.

You are very observant!

Except, it did not yet reappear as wolves run it still.

It is still clawing it's way out of the RCC's wolf's lair.

 

[Truther]

Like I told you before - they are two completely distinct individuals. The fact that you're ignorant about this lends credence to the idea that you are ignorant about many other things.

STUDY your Bible, dude . . .

Newborns are inside the adult if the adult converts as an adult and gets sprinkled by an RCC priest.

God separates the baby from the mother in this event?

Is this doctrine based on scripture or RCC commentary?

 

[Truther]

Funny though, that Truther can't point to a verse that says Baptism should be withheld from children.

Now that's funny . . .

The day that a newborn can say, "men and brethren, what shall we do" per Acts 2...or they are discipled, then baptized per Matt 28,.... that'll be the day.

When that day comes, you may baptize them.

That'll be the day.

 

[theefaith]

I am speaking of your doctrinal creeds derived from commentary, not our little chit chat.

I am pointing folks back to becoming sola scriptura.

You RCC'ers are pointing them to read extra Biblical literature.

C'mon, man!

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine acts 2:42
Not sola scripture

 

[Truther]

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine acts 2:42
Not sola scripture

The Apostles doctrine was not scripture?

Was it a suggestion?

 

[theefaith]

The Apostles doctrine was not scripture?

Was it a suggestion?

It refers to something other than scripture as does Paul

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

then there is the teaching authority of the apostles
Matt 28:19 does not say go and write scripture
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[Behold]

The fact that you keep making the SAME dishonest arguments illustrates that you have run OUT of ammunition.
.

Let me show you more now..
Remember that you were recently stating that your religious organization's early church Father's told you that , according to them, what your religious organization teaches about "water saves", came down from The Holy Apostles.......including Paul who told you that Christ sent him "not to baptize"..
Remember that stuff you were showing us?
Well, It was also these same "early church fathers" who originally TITLED your religious organization, as "the cult of Mary".
Now those are your same "early church fathers" from 4-5 AD that came up with that Title.
So, would you like to tell us more about the "cult of Mary" as defined by the "early church fathers", or would you like me to do it, in a Thread?
Im happy to oblige you there........ no prob.

So, while you consider your options there, let me show you this....

Notice this quote..

"""""Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the celestial kingdom; it is also the doorway to personal sanctification""""


See all that water cult doctrine? Do you recognize yourself? Do you recognize your religious organization?
Notice that this quote gives all credit for the purging of sin and entrance into the Kingdom of God, as WATER BASED Salvation. = "the water saves".
Notice there is no Blood of Jesus.....Notice there is NO CROSS......No Blood Atonement.
Do you SEE THAT?
Are you LOOKING?
So, that is your theology, as you presented it to me 20 times in the last 4 days, that your religious organization taught you .

But here is the thing, BreadofLife........This that i quoted is : Jehovah's Witness Theology.
It came directly from their church doctrine.

Do you recognize it?
It sounds just like YOURS and what your religious organization teaches regarding your "baptismal regeneration" nonsense.

I thought you would want to know of another "water cult"..
Now you do.

 

[Behold]

JESUS COMMANDED BAPTISM!
Matt 28:19

He told the Apostles and their disciples to "go into all the world.....making Disciples"......and then "baptize them"..

Do you see the 2 parts?
See, a water cult church never teaches this to you.
But notice.....you make disciples, and then you baptize them....

Let me explain this so that the readers here, who are starting to realize, can see it with perfect clarity...

"Go into all the WORLD....and make disciples". = FIRST...

THEN...

"baptize them"..

Notice they become a disciple FIRST and then they are dunked?

What does that mean?

It means they BELIEVE and are BORN AGAIN, as that is how you "make a disciple"......and then following their CONVERSION......they are water baptized.

So, that is why in the Acts of the Apostles, who Jesus is talking to in Mark 16, you find that everytime they lead someone to Christ, and that person or group or house is born again, they are THEN baptized in water.

Water FOLLOWS Salvation......its does not cause it, as the water cults teach.

 

[Truther]

It refers to something other than scripture as does Paul

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

then there is the teaching authority of the apostles
Matt 28:19 does not say go and write scripture
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

The Apostles had the exact truth.

Paul said following his departure wolves would come not sparing the flock.

These wolves are contradictors with commentary.

They sure don't teach scriptural truth, but redefine it.

 

[Marymog]

I am speaking of your doctrinal creeds derived from commentary, not our little chit chat.

I am pointing folks back to becoming sola scriptura.

You RCC'ers are pointing them to read extra Biblical literature.

C'mon, man!

Lol...I like the "Cmon, man"! Was your intent to mock President Biden?

Anyways, I see you didn't take me up on my offer. That tells me that you are aware that you give "commentary" also and possibly aware of your own hypocrisy.

Sola Scriptura is a 16th century invention of Protestant men who revolted against The Church. Since this invention The Church has split into thousands of different denominations with dozens of different doctrines....or what you call "commentary". Confusion has reigned thru Christianity since the 16th century. Scripture makes it clear that God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33)! Who is the author of confusion Truther?

C'mon man, Think about it!!

 

[Marymog]

You are actually right in part . but what Tree is ROME of herself ,,,,,,,,the bad one .
I will stick to the one tree , JESUS . Let men preach their religion , as for me I will sound out and point only to Christ .
Not to corrupt theologies and foundations such as those .

Hi,

How is the church in Rome from a "bad" tree? Historically we know that Peter and Paul started it. Your statement has me a bit confused. How can a church started by the two greatest Apostles be a "bad one"?

Thanks for your time...Mary

 

[Marymog]

I apologize if someone brought this up, but the Bible indirectly hints that at least some were water baptized. Now, note my position on this, as I've stated before: it is good, but not necessary. Furthermore, there are many types of baptism beside water baptism. However, some Apostles were water baptized.

John 1:35-37 KJV
Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; [36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! [37] And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

I am going to try to keep this as short as possible. At least 2 of 12 Apostles were disciples of John the Baptist. One of them was Andrew who was Peter's brother. Philip and Nathaniel lived in the same city as Andrew and Peter and knew the same prophecies. It is reasonable to suspect they were disciples of John the Baptist.

Now who was the other disciple of John the Baptist? I suspect it was John the Revelator. His brother was James. So at least 2 were baptized as disciples of John the Baptist, but as many as 6 were followers of John. .....

Hi FHII,

I had never delved into that passage from Scripture and never really thought about who the 2 were that left John to follow Jesus. After doing some research, thanks to you, I can definitely see Andrew as one of them.

Moving on to the bigger point. If those 2 Apostles were baptized by John (which I believe they were) then would those baptisms count? The reason I ask is because in Acts 19 Paul re-baptized those that had been baptized by John. In vs 1 it says they were disciples and vs 2 says they were believers and then in vs 5 it says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus even though they were already believers!! Since they were already believers Paul pointed out that the only thing they were missing to become a full fledged Christian was water baptism!

Based on Acts 19 wouldn't those 2 Apostles ALSO have to be re-baptized?

Thanks for your time....Bible Study Mary

 

[theefaith]

Let me show you more now..
Remember that you were recently stating that your religious organization's early church Father's told you that , according to them, what your religious organization teaches about "water saves", came down from The Holy Apostles.......including Paul who told you that Christ sent him "not to baptize"..
Remember that stuff you were showing us?
Well, It was also these same "early church fathers" who originally TITLED your religious organization, as "the cult of Mary".
Now those are your same "early church fathers" from 4-5 AD that came up with that Title.
So, would you like to tell us more about the "cult of Mary" as defined by the "early church fathers", or would you like me to do it, in a Thread?
Im happy to oblige you there........ no prob.

So, while you consider your options there, let me show you this....

Notice this quote..

"""""Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the celestial kingdom; it is also the doorway to personal sanctification""""


See all that water cult doctrine? Do you recognize yourself? Do you recognize your religious organization?
Notice that this quote gives all credit for the purging of sin and entrance into the Kingdom of God, as WATER BASED Salvation. = "the water saves".
Notice there is no Blood of Jesus.....Notice there is NO CROSS......No Blood Atonement.
Do you SEE THAT?
Are you LOOKING?
So, that is your theology, as you presented it to me 20 times in the last 4 days, that your religious organization taught you .

But here is the thing, BreadofLife........This that i quoted is : Jehovah's Witness Theology.
It came directly from their church doctrine.

Do you recognize it?
It sounds just like YOURS and what your religious organization teaches regarding your "baptismal regeneration" nonsense.

I thought you would want to know of another "water cult"..
Now you do.

Christ is the savior Lk 2:30
His life death blood merits and grace provide redemption, justification, sanctification, & salvation

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!

All in the church, the body of Christ!
The new and eternal covenant!
There must be a method of initiation into this covenant! per scripture it is by faith and baptism (water and the spirit) Mk 16:16

acts 8

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

how does the eunuch know about and desire baptism?
Was Philip sent to baptize?

 

[theefaith]

He told the Apostles and their disciples to "go into all the world.....making Disciples"......and then "baptize them"..

Do you see the 2 parts?
See, a water cult church never teaches this to you.
But notice.....you make disciples, and then you baptize them....

Let me explain this so that the readers here, who are starting to realize, can see it with perfect clarity...

"Go into all the WORLD....and make disciples". = FIRST...

THEN...

"baptize them"..

Notice they become a disciple FIRST and then they are dunked?

What does that mean?

It means they BELIEVE and are BORN AGAIN, as that is how you "make a disciple"......and then following their CONVERSION......they are water baptized.

So, that is why in the Acts of the Apostles, who Jesus is talking to in Mark 16, you find that everytime they lead someone to Christ, and that person or group or house is born again, they are THEN baptized in water.

Water FOLLOWS Salvation......its does not cause it, as the water cults teach.

so baptism is valid Christian doctrine?

no I don’t see two but one disciples are made by baptism
jn 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

 

[theefaith]

The Apostles had the exact truth.

Paul said following his departure wolves would come not sparing the flock.

These wolves are contradictors with commentary.

They sure don't teach scriptural truth, but redefine it.

they are not of the church or in the church nor have the authority of the apostles