Who founded your church?

[Marymog]

Mary, you are the one who suggested it! You asked the question, not me!

Maybe my post was confusing....

Let’s try this again. Scripture (Paul) makes it clear that the disciples of Jesus needed to be re-baptized because John the Baptists baptism, with water, wasn’t sufficient.

Your theory is that the two Apostles that left John didn’t need to be re-baptized (with water).....even though other followers of Jesus did need to be re-baptized. If understand your theory correctly.....That’s a bizarre theory!

AND to suggest they were re-baptized but not with water is weird. Scripture is dripping wet with baptism = water. The man who taught you it isn’t should be fired from your denomination.

 

[Behold]

Maybe my post was confusing....

Let’s try this again. Scripture (Paul) makes it clear that the disciples of Jesus needed to be re-baptized because John the Baptists baptism, with water, wasn’t sufficient.

What you believe is very strange, as ive been to the Sea of Galilee, and ive walked along the River Jordan. Ive been all over Israel, including all the "sea's".
Take it from me, its ALL just water....
So, to be baptized in them 34 times, doesn't change the first one.....and none of them have any power to deal with Sin.
It just water.

Also, Paul said that Jesus didnt send him to water baptize.
And did you notice that Jesus didn't water baptize anyone?

Look at this photo i took of the River Jordan.
Its just WATER.
It has no magic power to deal with sin, or anything like it.
Its so queer that the deceived water cults believe that WATER causes the new birth or that water can cause you to receive the Holy Spirit, or that water can wash away your sin.
It cant.
Its just water.
-

 

[theefaith]

Water has no magic power that can justify you or sanctify you, or save you.
Water cults teach that it does, but the Cross teaches that it does not.

promise of the Father acts 2:38-39
Promise from God is a sacred oath or sacrament
Ez 3:25-27
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

making obedient children of God!

Baptism (water)
Fire (new heart love of God)
Sanctification (the Spirit)

but your right the water does not make you righteous or holy or sanctified, it is an outward “sign” that signify’s an inner washing away of all sin by the grace of God the result of the merits of the blood on the cross, but it is a complete ritual, the water (matter) the words I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit (form) and the Spirit (sanctifier)

 

[Behold]

the water does not make you righteous or holy or sanctified, it is an outward “sign” that signify’s an inner washing away of all sin by the grace of God the result of the merits of the blood on the cross, but it is a complete ritual, the water (matter) the words I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit (form) and the Spirit (sanctifier)

WB is a beautiful symbolism.
Taking communion is a beautiful symbolism.

The words "i baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit", have no power to do anything, as this is not the Gospel.

The Gospel is not me holding you underwater while i say that while you hold your breath.

The Gospel is the "preaching of the Cross".. The Gospel is "all that believe on Jesus shall be saved"..

The GOSPEL is "faith comes by hearing, and hearing BY...the word of God, that is the seed that is incorruptible".

The "washing of regeneration", happens to your SPIRIT, and not to your Body.. And that is why the Holy Spirit causes it, INSIDE YOU, where water baptism cannot reach.

Water cannot deal with SPIRIT.
Being born again is a Spiritual BIRTH that is caused by GOD's SPIRIT.

Water, need not apply for that position as that position is already fulfilled by the BLOOD of Jesus.

 

[FHII]

Let’s try this again. Scripture (Paul) makes it clear that the disciples of Jesus needed to be re-baptized because John the Baptists baptism, with water, wasn’t sufficient.

Your theory is that the two Apostles that left John didn’t need to be re-baptized (with water).....even though other followers of Jesus did need to be re-baptized. If understand your theory correctly.....That’s a bizarre theory!

Mary, I explained it to you in my post and spent a lot of time on it. You missed the point when you read Acts 19 and you missed it again when I pointed it out to you. This happens quite a bit when I point these things out to you. Please go back and read.

And for heaven's sake, I thought we both agreed Andrew and the other Apostle didn't have to be rebaptized: so why are we still having this discussion?

AND to suggest they were re-baptized but not with water is weird.

Acts 1:4-5 KJV
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. [5] For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

That's what Jesus said! A clear contrast between the two! And I'm betting Andrew and the other Apostle was there in the upper room and I'm betting the Holy Ghost did exactly what Jesus said and I'm betting he didn't use water!

The man who taught you it isn’t should be fired from your denomination.

Mary, you just fired Jesus!

 

[theefaith]

WB is a beautiful symbolism.
Taking communion is a beautiful symbolism.

The words "i baptize you in the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit", have no power to do anything, as this is not the Gospel.

The Gospel is not me holding you underwater while i say that while you hold your breath.

The Gospel is the "preaching of the Cross".. The Gospel is "all that believe on Jesus shall be saved"..

The GOSPEL is "faith comes by hearing, and hearing BY...the word of God, that is the seed that is incorruptible".

The "washing of regeneration", happens to your SPIRIT, and not to your Body.. And that is why the Holy Spirit causes it, INSIDE YOU, where water baptism cannot reach.

Water cannot deal with SPIRIT.
Being born again is a Spiritual BIRTH that is caused by GOD's SPIRIT.

Water, need not apply for that position as that position is already fulfilled by the BLOOD of Jesus.

I don’t know how else to explain it
Christ still demands both

Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Christ still commands baptism in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The eunuch was still baptized

acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

father still promised baptism

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Still (Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

it is a complete ritual! All parts are required to have the effects!

intention: to sanctify
Matter: water
Form: words
With the power of the spirit and infinite merits of the cross passion and blood of Jesus! GRACE Sanctify’s and saves!

 

[Behold]

I don’t know how else to explain it
Christ still demands bothMark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Just read the ACTS.

Every person in the Acts of the Apostles, that is baptized, always believes first,........and that is when they are born again...
THEN....
=Get wet, as the symbol .

Its the same idea as joining the Army.
You join the Army...they ACCEPT YOU..., and they give you a uniform.
The Uniform, shows you are IN, proves you are accepted, but it didnt cause you to be in it.

Water baptism symbolically shows that you are born again, but it didnt cause it.

Salvation is not : The Cross + Water

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I explained it to you in my post and spent a lot of time on it. You missed the point when you read Acts 19 and you missed it again when I pointed it out to you. This happens quite a bit when I point these things out to you. Please go back and read.

And for heaven's sake, I thought we both agreed Andrew and the other Apostle didn't have to be rebaptized: so why are we still having this discussion?

Nope, we didn’t agree. I believe I said the opposite. They had to be re-baptized.

 

[DNB]

If you know your Bible - WHY would you even bother to say someting this silly?

Jesus didn't say . . .
John 6:53
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat crackers and drink juice, you have no life in you.

He said:
John 6:53-56
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is TRUE FOOD, and my blood is TRU DRINK. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

See the difference?
STUDY your Bible and you'll make less moronic statements . . .

No, but let's face it, juice and crackers taste way better!

 

[Philip James]

Salvation is not : The Cross + Water

Dear Behold,

So there are three that testify,
the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Behold]

Nope, we didn’t agree. I believe I said the opposite. They had to be re-baptized.

Useless.
God only accepts Blood to accept you.
Specifically His own.

 

[Marymog]

Acts 1:4-5 KJV
And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. [5] For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

That's what Jesus said! A clear contrast between the two! And I'm betting Andrew and the other Apostle was there in the upper room and I'm betting the Holy Ghost did exactly what Jesus said and I'm betting he didn't use water!


Mary, you just fired Jesus!

Help me out here. How does a Christian get baptized with the Holy Spirit? You just have to believe, repent and it is done?


So to recap: Jesus set the example for us to follow by being baptized with water and the Spirit descended upon him. The Apostles baptized with water and He told them to baptize others. Scripture says when you are baptized you will receive the Holy Spirit.....just like Jesus did.

Are you suggesting we shouldn’t follow His example and do what the Apostles told us to do? Why don’t you want to be like Jesus?

 

[Behold]

Dear Behold,

So there are three that testify,
the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

The "water" is not the city water supply.
Its Jesus the "Living Water."
Or as He once said...>"the Water I GIVE UNTO YOU">.. is the water in your verse.
Thats not what comes out of your sprinkler head, or your faucet, or your garden hose, or out of a water cult's lie.

 

[Marymog]

What you believe is very strange, as ive been to the Sea of Galilee, and ive walked along the River Jordan. Ive been all over Israel, including all the "sea's".
Take it from me, its ALL just water....
So, to be baptized in them 34 times, doesn't change the first one.....and none of them have any power to deal with Sin.
It just water.

Also, Paul said that Jesus didnt send him to water baptize.
And did you notice that Jesus didn't water baptize anyone?

Look at this photo i took of the River Jordan.
Its just WATER.
It has no magic power to deal with sin, or anything like it.
Its so queer that the deceived water cults believe that WATER causes the new birth or that water can cause you to receive the Holy Spirit, or that water can wash away your sin.
It cant.
Its just water.

Spit and dirt was used to heal the blind man.....but its just spit and dirt. No magic power to heal the eyes. Just like water doesn’t wash away sin. God does......did your men not teach you that?

Christians should follow in the footsteps of Jesus. Did you follow His footsteps into the Jordan and get baptized or did you walk away? Sounds like you walked away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your theological history is amended to teach the Catholic Version.
No bible teaches that Peter was a pope, or that he ordained anyone as a pope.
This is "theological fiction" being drooled on a Christian forum.
So, thank you for showing us what is the "revised history" of the Catholic Church.
Next you'll be telling us about Pope Joan and Mary as a perpetual virgin.

Ummmm, this was a specific queston to @Backlit, who mentioned Early Church heresies and how he disregarded them.
Perhaps you should READ the posts before ignorantly commenting . . .

But i do have that same question for you again that you keep dodging.
Ready?
It was your "early church fathers" that Titled the Catholic denomination the "cult of the Virgin"......so, why dont you just be honest and refer to it as your early church father's designed it, being that you are so obsessed with "earth church fathers".
No need to avoid the "cult of the virgin" Title......Just go with that, as then we can all see the truth, as your early church fathers realized it to be and stated so..

THANK YOU for yet again proving my point that you CANNOT debate the facts.
You ALWAYS resort to lying because of your abject ignorance and complete dishonesty.

First of all - I already explained to you, in the depths of your ignorance, the different uses of the word "cult".
"Cult", as in a mind-controlling entity is NOT what the Church is referring to in using this word. As I already explained - it simply refers to a devotion. As a metter of fact - this was the ORIGINAL useof the word.

Now - YOU have repeatedly - and quite ignorantly, I might add - stated that the Early Church Fathers "Titled" the Catholic Church, the "Cult of the Virgin". This is possibly the most asinine thing you have argued because NOT all Cathollics have a devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. NOBODY is forced or coerced to have a devotion to her - so your claim is just plain stupid.

I suggest you do your homework - BEFORE responding - so you won't make anymore idiotic or dishonest claims . . .

 

[Behold]

Spit and dirt was used to heal the blind man.....but its just spit and dirt.

Whose Spit?
WHOSE?

GOD's.
Jesus is God.
So, God as Christ in the Flesh did a creative miracle using the dirt He created to recreate eyes that are made originally out of DIRT that was used to make Adam's.

Can you SEE IT?

Wake up.

Open your EYES.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can keep saying im being dishonest, but, it didnt help you the last 40 times, and its not going to help you the next 50, BreadofLife.
But, its all you have, so, its what we expect.

Now...Here is your reality...
This is.....>Jehovah Witness Teaching.. and you'll recognize it as being exactly what you and all the water cults teach.

"""""" Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the kingdom of God""""""

Notice that this is what the corrupted and demonic Douay-Rheims teaches as a "doctrines of devil", according to Paul.
You certainly recognize what the JW"s teach, as you are teaching it, yourself.
And you'll do it again, as you can't help yourself.

Now here is the issue........ i'll state it for you again, and next time.
=Water, can't save you. And water does not impart the Holy Spirit or the gift's of the HS, when you are water baptized.
Water has no power to do anything like that, as its just a liquid sitting in a tank, or in a "baptism".

The water cults, as you know....ascribe MYSTICAL POWER to the Water, as being able to "wash away sins", yet, the water can't do anything like this, at all.

So, why is water cult "baptismal regeneration" or "born again OF WATER">... a doctrine of Devil's and cursed of God? Galatians 1:8?

Its because this doctrine of devils and the deceived who teach it try to replace the Blood Atonement's application as "justification by faith", with "water" "water' "water baptism".

One more...>Not only did Paul tell YOU that he didn't come to water baptize, but Paul told YOU that he was sent to "Preach the CROSS".
He was not sent to preach "water baptism".

You do not preach the Cross, as water cult theology has no use for the Cross....., and if you try to actually pretend you are now all about the CROSS..... in the next few posts, you have only to look at your last 100 posts that prove you are up to your theological NECK in WATER WATER WATER.

So, you have a big problem., and the water cults sent you there.

Debating this isusue with YOU is fruitless as long as you keep dishonestly ascribing beliefs to the Cathoolic Church that do NOT exist.
I could easily make the same kinds of stupid remarks and idiotic claims that YOU do - but I'm an honest guy. I debate facts - not fairy tales.

Let me know when you're ready to grow up and debate like a man - and intelligent and honest one . . .

 

[Behold]

Ummmm, this was a specific queston to @Backlit, who mentioned Early Church heresies and how he disregarded them.
.

READ carefully.
Your theological history, you posted, is amended to teach the Catholic Version.
No bible teaches that Peter was a pope, or that he ordained anyone as a pope.
This is "theological fiction" being drooled on a Christian forum.
So, thank you for showing us what is the "revised history" of the Catholic Church.
Next you'll be telling us about Pope Joan and Mary as a perpetual virgin.

 

[Behold]

Debating this isusue with YOU is fruitless as long as you keep dishonestly ascribing beliefs to the Cathoolic Church that do NOT exist.
. .

You are misinformed, among other things.
My commentary is strictly related to the Catholic Bible, that says, in John 3, that you are "born again by water, or born gain of water".
That is a lie.
Thats a ""doctrine of devils"
You are not born gain by water. You are born again by the Holy Spirit.
So thisi water cult lie, found in a devil's bible, that has created your recent theology, is using you as its tool.

See, you also know nothing about the water cult's theology, that you are lost inside of, currently.

 

[Philip James]

The "water" is not the city water supply.
Its Jesus the "Living Water."
Or as He once said...>"the Water I GIVE UNTO YOU">.. is the water in your verse.
Thats not what comes out of your sprinkler head, or your faucet, or your garden hose, or out of a water cult's lie.

ah my friend,

I see St. Therese and I have a lot of work to do...

The water and the Blood are Baptism and the Eucharist. Pierced by the lance, they pour forth from His side..

these two great sacraments of the Church, miracles brought about by the power of the Holy Spirit...

Here's a nice homily on the wedding Feast from Benedict XVI that I happened on this weekend.. it's fabulous!

Benedict XVI: The Eucharist is a Wedding-Feast

Peace!