Sign Gifts Semi-Safe House

[Mayflower]

So to understand, word of knowledge is knowing something can happen to someone, not set in stone like prophecy? So is word of wisdom knowing about someone's life? What is word of wisdom used for?

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

I don't presume to know all about Word of Knowledge and Word of Wisdom and how they relate to Prophecy - I would just say that Word of Knowledge is someone knowing a fact supernaturally without having any human way to know it - like - where are the lost donkeys? Word of Wisdom may be like Nathan telling David "You are the man!" (who stole the sheep) - telling someone something in a way that really impresses them.

When Paul says that Tongues, (word of) Knowledge and Prophecy shall one day CEASE - did he really single out those 3 certain gifts, or just use the 3 as examples of what will come about when THE PERFECT (teleios, mature, complete) has come?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Here is a story for you. A pentecostal church moved into town (they were already established elsewhere) It did not have a very good reputation with some weird doctrines. However, I decided to take a look. They held a Sunday meeting once a month and a weeknight meeting every week in a home.

At the weeknight meeting I noticed that the same thing happened every week. Start with singing. Then the women gave a message in tongues, usually the same women and the men interpreted. All pretty wishy washy and nothing of substance. The the leader would preach. We finished off with a song and then had supper. That was the best bit.

I noticed that everyone sat in the same seat every week. A classic example of how to kill a mockingbird.

Actually that is what happens in most churches in one form or another, except without the tongues and interpretation. In some churches it's called "the liturgy".

 

[Paul Christensen]

When I spoke in tongues at age 16, I was unknowingly also given the gift of "the word of knowledge." For example, I was Best Man in Dallas's wedding. After the honeymoon, he invited me over for dinner. After dinner, he, his wife, and I retired to his basement to play ping pong. All was well until Dallas told me he was going deer hunting the next day. I suddenly sensed his skeleton and knew he would be killed in an accident if he went. But when I warned him of this, he accused me of being opposed to deer hunting. I denied this, but he persisted in accusing me of this attitude. As I predicted he was killed when his snowmobile hit a bump and his gun discharged into his shoulder. He bled to death. Since then, I have had many words of knowledge and many death premonitions, all of which came true. Never have I have I had a false alarm! So in my view, your attitude, if widely shared, puts lives in danger.

I don't doubt that God has blessed you with the gift. What I am talking about is a word of knowledge that reveals serious sin that could destroy a person or a church. One has to have wisdom about how to share it. Perhaps a word of knowledge is for oneself, and then the word of wisdom is needed to divulge it.

But a word of knowledge that is given to save a person's life is quite another matter, and should be given directly. But carrying a loaded rifle in a car is a dangerous thing to do and it is not if an accident were to happen but when.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I've heard recently that the Assemblies of God had "voted out" speaking in tongues.
Not sure if this is true.

But I do know for sure that the PAOC (Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada)) don't preach much about it.
I attended a PAOC church a few times last year and there was no speaking in tongues.
Nothing about waiting upon the power from up high, as Jesus commanded.
During the early 1980's there was a lot of tongue speaking in PAOC churches.

The only ones locally where I live, speaking in tongues is the UPC.

If that has happened, then the AOG is following the same path as many historical Christian movements that had speaking in tongues in their early days, but had it decline through the passage of time.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well sure...but you can jump in and identify the language.

That theory is getting a bit tired now. You won't get any Pentecostals and Charismatics believing that. The only people whom you will influence with that notion are the "borderline' folk who are wondering about what tongues is all about.

I am a friend.

 

[Pathfinder7]

I found this elsewhere, I copied and pasted:

It's been an issue inside the Assemblies of God denomination concerning speaking in tongues. There was a group of younger ministers that sought to "fight" the long-held doctrinal stance that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is always evidenced by speaking with other tongues. Up until like a decade or so ago, the Assemblies of God had their big conference and reinstated the position that a Christian must speak with other tongues in order to have received the Holy Ghost.

It's a requirement for their ministers, evangelists, and for anyone they ordain to have experience the baptism with the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking with other tongues. A lot of their churches on an individual level have moved away from this position overall. They don't typically place a strong emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost, but tend to align with a more evangelical, semi-charismatic doctrine.

I was involved in AOG..years ago.
- There was not much emphasis on 'the speaking in tongues &
the baptism with the Holy Spirit..'
Having it in 'doctrinal statement' does not mean that churches will focus/give emphasis.
---
Move of God/Movement changes..
- From 'original vision, focus, etc..'
- After the first generation.
- It becomes another denomination/establishment.
That has been the pattern in Christian history.
---
I like stories..
- During the early days of Pentecostal Movement.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So to understand, word of knowledge is knowing something can happen to someone, not set in stone like prophecy? So is word of wisdom knowing about someone's life? What is word of wisdom used for?

The word of wisdom is a supernatural indication about how to go about something in the most appropriate manner for the circumstances. For instance, a word of knowledge might come to a person about another person being addicted to porn. Because just blurting it out in public could cause more harm than good, getting a word of wisdom how to share it appropriately, like "The Lord desires you to be totally clean". is the way to share a difficult word of knowledge with discretion, sensitivity and love.

Sometimes and word of knowledge and a word of wisdom might come together, such as in the example of the man going deer hunting (in a previous post). The word of knowledge could be that "Going deer hunting will expose you to danger this time (word of knowledge), so ensure that your weapon remains unloaded until you get out of your vehicle". (word of wisdom).

 

[Paul Christensen]

Think that appears somewhat as hinging on early teachings that God is "mysterious"...
And somewhat trying to mimic the "mysteriousness".

However, while in ancient days God was mysterious...not unlike WE Teach little children...little bits of information at a time, and Direct them...

However...4,000 years later, adults are "supposed" to have grown, learned, experienced...and opened their ears to the "mysteries" whereby Jesus has filled in, uncovered, revealed the missing "knowledge", NOT Afforded all ancient men.

Apparently the food didn't hold much mystery...

Remember going to a friends party, food spread on a table ...asked what is "this"...
Host Didn't want to say. Try a TASTE. I took a bit, it tasted different and not bad. Had some more. After everyone ate, the host revealed the two main ingredients were ground beef and Grape Jelly.... ooh gag, that "sounds" awful! LOL.

Reminds me of when I was invited to lunch at a Chinese restaurant serving traditional Chinese "Yum Cha". I never quite knew what I was eating! I had to trust my Chinese friend about what to choose.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Gibberish simply means Unintelligable talk.

I have travelled on buses where there were Hindi and Chinese speakers, and during my job as Victim Advisor working through interpreters with Vietnamese victims, it all sounded like gibberish to me. Just because a language sounds like gibberish doesn't mean that it is unintelligible.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I don't presume to know all about Word of Knowledge and Word of Wisdom and how they relate to Prophecy - I would just say that Word of Knowledge is someone knowing a fact supernaturally without having any human way to know it - like - where are the lost donkeys? Word of Wisdom may be like Nathan telling David "You are the man!" (who stole the sheep) - telling someone something in a way that really impresses them.

When Paul says that Tongues, (word of) Knowledge and Prophecy shall one day CEASE - did he really single out those 3 certain gifts, or just use the 3 as examples of what will come about when THE PERFECT (teleios, mature, complete) has come?

Reading into half a verse of Scipture is faulty hermaneutics. The context shows that Paul is referring to when we get to glory after the church age is over, where the supernatural gifts of the Spirit will no longer be needed because we will be having direct fellowship with the Lord.

You are wasting your time trying to persuade Pentecostals and Charismatics of Cessationism. None of them will believe you. It is the same as no genuinely born again believer who knows their Bible will ever be converted to Mormonism or the JWs. Only those "nominal" professing Christians who hardly ever read their Bible and who are uncertain about their faith will be the ones persuaded to convert from their own Christian churches to a cult.

But mature and experienced Pentecostals will never believe in Cessationism, because they know their Bible and have put the 1 Corinthians 13 verse into it right context. So you won't get any converts from that quarter!

 

[Paul Christensen]

An image like that helped me avoid an accident once. I saw an image for but a flash while driving and knew exactly what was going to happen, then I avoided it.

I figured it a word of knowledge, because it was so fast and imparted knowledge.

The measures you took to avoid the event was the word of wisdom you received but didn't know it was a word of wisdom.

 

[Mantis]

When I spoke in tongues at age 16, I was unknowingly also given the gift of "the word of knowledge." For example, I was Best Man in Dallas's wedding. After the honeymoon, he invited me over for dinner. After dinner, he, his wife, and I retired to his basement to play ping pong. All was well until Dallas told me he was going deer hunting the next day. I suddenly sensed his skeleton and knew he would be killed in an accident if he went. But when I warned him of this, he accused me of being opposed to deer hunting. I denied this, but he persisted in accusing me of this attitude. As I predicted he was killed when his snowmobile hit a bump and his gun discharged into his shoulder. He bled to death. Since then, I have had many words of knowledge and many death premonitions, all of which came true. Never have I have I had a false alarm! So in my view, your attitude, if widely shared, puts lives in danger.

Thats amazing.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

Not sure who you thought you were talking to, @Paul Christensen - I believe you about the cessationists

 

[Paul Christensen]

Not sure who you thought you were talking to, @Paul Christensen - I believe you about the cessationists

Sorry if I misread your post. Blame it on my reading glasses!

But it will be interesting to see what comes out of the woodwork as a result of my post.

 

[Taken]

That theory is getting a bit tired now. You won't get any Pentecostals and Charismatics believing that. The only people whom you will influence with that notion are the "borderline' folk who are wondering about what tongues is all about.

I am a friend.

Okay.

 

[Taken]

Reminds me of when I was invited to lunch at a Chinese restaurant serving traditional Chinese "Yum Cha". I never quite knew what I was eating! I had to trust my Chinese friend about what to choose.

Chinese are pretty artful in their sauces, so if it was a bread, rice roll, chicken, etc....probably pretty good. They do have some things served in China, I would not be keen on eating.

 

[Triumph1300]

That theory is getting a bit tired now. You won't get any Pentecostals and Charismatics believing that.

Sorry, I disagree.
Friend of mine travelling to Lithuania preaching there for the last 25 years, preached at certain places in tongues and it turned out he was speaking in the local dialects.

 

[Taken]

I have travelled on buses where there were Hindi and Chinese speakers, and during my job as Victim Advisor working through interpreters with Vietnamese victims, it all sounded like gibberish to me. Just because a language sounds like gibberish doesn't mean that it is unintelligible.

Well that is why I mentioned...what language is speaking in tongues. Surely you recognize foreigners speaking a language and another responding.
I have a profoundly deaf child and first talking on her own, gibberish.

 

[Taken]

Sorry, I disagree.
Friend of mine travelling to Lithuania preaching there for the last 25 years, preached at certain places in tongues and it turned out he was speaking in the local dialects.

That ^ is what I believe was the case with the Disciples.
Awesome testimony.