Once Saved Always Saved

[Michiah-Imla]

So you're saying John wasn't a Christian? John included himself:

1 John 1:8-9 (NKJV)
8 If WE say that WE have no sin, WE deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in US. 9 If WE confess OUR sins, He is faithful and just to forgive US OUR sins and to cleanse US from all unrighteousness.

Those who do this are not deceived and are Christians:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And do this:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

Because:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

 

[kcnalp]

Those who do this are not deceived and are Christians:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Amen! John again included himself.

 

[JunChosen]

IMO, you equating OSAS with God's faithfulness is a ruse. God always saves provided you accept the life preserver.

FALSE- The ruse is on you, God NEVER saves those who believe they can ACCEPT the life preserver (salvation)! They are dead and drowning.

It is clear to me that many verses used in this thread to justify OSAS is taking the text out of context; that the verses pertain and apply to believers (not non-believers).

I beg to differ. People like you just do not understand OSAS, and yes the passages used are not taken out of context and do pertain ONLY to believers!

Disciples - not mere followers of the faith, like us, but disciples who walked side by side with the Lord - turned their back on him at John 6:66. It's absurd to suppose they did not REALLY believe, were not REALLY saved.

The reason many turned their backs on the Lord Jesus is because of what He said in verse 65:

“And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me (Joh 6:44; 37), except it were given unto him of my Father.”

Sorry, you don't seem to display yourself as a believer.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well that sets a very dangerous precedence which I don't agree with. If nothing Jesus spoke to the Apostles concerns us (and only the Apostles) then we can also say that nothing he told Jews concerns us who aren't Jews. He spoke very little to any gentile, so we can conclude nothing Jesus said matters to any non Jew Christian.

We can take it to another level by saying nothing Paul told the Galatians matter to anyone other than the Galatians. Nothing he wrote to the Corinthians concerns anyone other than the Corinthians. Furthermore, I have no idea what to do with. This verse:

Matthew 4:4 KJV
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

He was quoting scripture that originally was intended for the Hebrews, but he told it to Satan. So does it only apply to Hebrews and Satan?

Golly gee! The entire OT God was dealing with the Hebrews/Jews/Israel... And in the Gospels Jesus was still looking to deal with that group, and much of what Jesus said was to the Apostles... And the epistles were written to specific groups... So what part of the Bible is meant for us modern day folk?

I like your list... But are the rules the same?



Well Paul told the Romans that and Ephesians that. But I an not Roman or Turkish! By your precedence
These verses don't apply to me.

So, our conversation is about matthew 10:22.

Matthew 10:22 KJV
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

It says we are going to be hated because we follow Jesus but if we endure to the end we will be saved. Or does that really only apply to the Apostles?


Peter, John and Paul made similar comments, but the were adressing specific groups. So by your precedence, I can't bring up those verses!

There are so many questions! But I will just ask ine of you:

Must we persevere to the end, or if one time we believed in Christ and then stopped believing, we are good to go?

Well if the belief you ask of brought one to become a new Creature in Christ, then yes they are good to go. There is far more in that statment than what is just written here. Sin is not the issue. Even keeping on belieiving is not the issue! Jesus has perfected forever those He is sanctifying! So if you are a child of God you are complete in HIm and hidden in Him.

As for the Bible. all Scripture is equally inspired by god, but not all SCripture is equally applicable to all of us! We don't offer animals anymore. Gentiles do not circumcize their sons as part of a covenant.

We have to learn context in order to see what something applies to. Verses on enduring trials has nothing to do with being saved. Verses on moral purity are not teaching of murder. Too many believers take verses that apply to a different time or a different situation and put them someplace they don't belong. That is why there is so much false doctrine out there.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh... And by the way... I have one verse that says it was ALL written for us! But I'm not telling yet!

If you mean:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

so do you keep Sabbath?
not eat pork?
keep the seven festivals?
don't mix fabrics?

If you ALL means we are bound to everything then why aren't you doing these?

Do you do wave offerings, sheave offerings? Do you pray facing towards Jerusalem?

 

[kcnalp]

Sorry, you don't seem to display yourself as a believer.

Like I said earlier, OSASers are some of the most judgmental people on Earth.

Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

 

[kcnalp]

If you mean:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

so do you keep Sabbath?
not eat pork?
keep the seven festivals?
don't mix fabrics?

If you ALL means we are bound to everything then why aren't you doing these?

Do you do wave offerings, sheave offerings? Do you pray facing towards Jerusalem?

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hebrews 8:13 (NKJV)
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

Who did He make the Old Covenant with, and who is He going to make the New Covenant with?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've been here a LOT longer than you - so I am well-aware of the nonsense that goes on here.
You're just another in a long line of debunked anti-Catholics . . .

Your error is you call people like Ferriss and myself as anti-catholic when we are not. We are against much of Catholicism and the falsehood it has inflicted on the masses.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your error is you call people like Ferriss and myself as anti-catholic when we are not. We are against much of Catholicism and the falsehood it has inflicted on the masses.

A person who simply "disagrees" with Catholic doctrine is not necessarily an "anti-Catholic".
An "anti-Catholic" can be defined as a person who resorts to LYING about what Catholics believe and teach instead of simply arguing the facts.

the people on this forum who argue against the Catholic church are largely ANTI-Catholics because you guys weave lies, myths and falsehoods into your arguments at EVERY turn. In fact, I can't remember when I've debated a someone on this foum where I didn't have to correct their lies and falsehoods during the course of our discussion. There HAVE been a few - but not many.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What you heard.

please learn the difference

no one has ever been saved because they HEARD they truth.

That's right. It's the word REMAINING in you that saves. Read the verse......

As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Again, I want to see John Calvin use the word osas.

can you please show me?

I don't know if he ever used the acronym. All I know is he taught once you are saved you are always saved.

calvin taught irresistible grace and double predestination, apart fro. Free will.he taught that we could never come to faith anyway, it is of god, so if we could not come to it, we will never leave it.

Yes, I'm familiar with his teachings and that he taught once you are saved you are always saved and you will never stop believing. His whole teaching seems to be predicated on his (mis)understanding of election.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As I have stated to you - ad nauseam - I'm NOT here to "argue" with you.
I'm here to expose your lies about the Catholic Church. When you're NOT lying about the Catholic Church - I couldn't care less.

Yes, you are arguing. And just because you are sure you are right and we are wrong doesn't make us liars. And just because we won't agree with you doesn't make us liars either.

 

[Wrangler]

A person who simply "disagrees" with Catholic doctrine is not necessarily an "anti-Catholic".
An "anti-Catholic" can be defined as a person who resorts to LYING about what Catholics believe

Not sure how a thread about OSAS turns into you apologizing for Catholicism.

I was raised Catholic then became a unitarian (not affiliated with the church by that name) but don't consider myself anti-Catholic, per se. While I appreciate the history of the early church, the claims of supremacy are specious. You can call that a lie if you want to but I resort to telling the truth about Catholic doctrine. Perhaps a topic for another thread?

 

[justbyfaith]

again I do not believe we must believe to end! That would place the onus on me, and not on God, so please stop saying this

please stop saying I do,

Does someone who has never believed and does not believe now, go to heaven? is it saying that the onus is on the unbeliever to tell them that they must believe in order to be saved?

What is the difference between unbelief in the person who has never believed and unbelief in the person who has believed?

Is it not unbelief either way?

Are we not saved by grace through faith?

Do we not have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand?

Therefore, if I lose faith, I lose access to grace and am therefore not saved.

Justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance Believes and teaches , along with many others in here and out on the streets that Jesus Saves....BUT , in ADDITION to that ( A False, Accursed Addition to 1Cor15:1-4 that Paul warns about in Galatians) , one must Repent all of their Sins before they die or they will go to Hell.They “ Earn” their Salvation in this manner, or at least they will certainly “ Earn” Damnation Without it....

I thank God that I teach the truth on this matter and have shown that it is the truth without any refutation on your part.

Therefore, because you have no logical or biblical backing for your position, you continue to resort to ad hominem attacks.

THAT is the “ Repentance “ That I preach against——

In doing so, you "preach against" the truth.

Anybody can “repent” in the sense Of having Sorrow for Sin .....it is a waste of time if it does not lead you to Jesus...

Yet, you teach that repentance isn't valid unless you have already come to Jesus.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In myself I do not possess the power and the ability to believe what I can not see. Only by the power of God's gracious gift of faith can I 'see' the truth of the gospel and decide to put my trust in it. That's why if I reject that power and let the word of faith slip from my heart I am will not be persevering in the believing that the Bible plainly says I must be persevering in to be a member of God's household in salvation.

As I said,

you are trying t make your salvation conditional on your ability to persevere,

call it whatever you want, it’s conditional salvation

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Written to Christians:
Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

No OSAS!

Yep

written to christians, work out the salvation you have, it’s like working out the good and silver you are mining to make it usefull

what it does not say.

work to earn your future possible salvation

sorry but you again have failed to show me I am in error

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no grace available to cover that sin.

Got chapter and verse?

Sounds like Grace is not really there when it’s needed most....I guess Grace only applies when you are performing well, doing good and “ deserving” of it.....that is exactly the Opposite If what Grace is
supposed to be.....it’s UNEARNED Favor......

Actually, if you look up the word "charis" in the Greek, the terminnology of "unearned" or "unmerited" is not in there.

Grace is simple favour.

It may in fact be true that we do not deserve the grace that changes us; however once grace has changed us, we begin to deserve the heaven that the Lord has prepared for us. Maybe not completely all at once. But we begin to deserve it more than we used to deserve it.

If you Bump your head and let out a curse and have a heart-attack and die suddenly without expressing remorse and sorrow about it and vowing never to do it again......sorry, pal.....you are Damned forever...

@justbyfaith , is this what you believe?

On the one hand, there is a literal understanding of Ezekiel 33:11-20 that I am still processing.

On the other, there is the concept that we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as believers; as concerning condemnation.

And also, it would seem in Romans 4:11 that one does not need to be circumcised of heart for righteousness to be imputed to him; although there is not an airtight case for this since circumcision in that verse may be speaking of physical circumcision only.

So you're saying John wasn't a Christian? John included himself:

1 John 1:8-9 (NKJV)
8 If WE say that WE have no sin, WE deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in US. 9 If WE confess OUR sins, He is faithful and just to forgive US OUR sins and to cleanse US from all unrighteousness.

Notice it doesn't say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

If it said that, it would be in contradiction to 1 John 3:5-9.

Read 1 John 1:8 again.

It is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practically sinning.

The element of sin within us can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Thus, there is no contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:5-9.

1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin; while 1 John 3:5-9 is speaking about the committing of sins practically.

 

[Wrangler]

As I said,

you are trying t make your salvation conditional on your ability to persevere,

call it whatever you want, it’s conditional salvation

Yup. The only alternative is universalism. Are you a universalist?

 

[kcnalp]

Yep

written to christians, work out the salvation you have, it’s like working out the good and silver you are mining to make it usefull

what it does not say.

work to earn your future possible salvation

sorry but you again have failed to show me I am in error

Yay! I can't lose!