Once Saved Always Saved

[amigo de christo]

It’s hard to question Ferris Bueller (lol), but I must somewhat play the role of Edward Rooney now:

While there is some truth in what you say; I would strongly caution believers to reflect on the following:

Romans 9:15
...I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

Hebrews 10:26-27
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning

We do not remain babes in Christ where rookie mistakes (sins in ignorance) happen forever; we must grow in the faith.

1 Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Ephesians 4:13-14,22,26
[13] Till we all come... unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children... [22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; [26] and sin not

Yes the lambs must mature up . And let us warn and remind as did paul , james , jude , john and OUR LORD , that all who
name the name of JESUS CHRIST , let not inquity ONCE be named among you as becometh saints .
And if we see or spot error in any brethren we must quickly correct it . Lest it leavens the whole lump .
I can tell from reading corithians that paul was hoping they would heed his warning and repent BEFORE paul had to arrive and deal very sharply with them . And its why he told them , Dont think we wont be as we are by letter to you when present . WE WILL BE IF NEED BE .
THEY were quite serious , for the sake of the church , that if leaven was spotted it must be dealt with very quick .

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm totally convinced that you have no knowledge and understanding of Scripture as shown through your writings!!!

However, I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong.

You said Romans 11:22 was written to Christians, I say otherwise.

Now read verses 17-24 and after reading will you still say if the verses speaks to the Christians?

To God Be The Glory

Paul makes mention of why the unbelieving jews were cast out of their own tree .
But speaking to BELIEVERS who now HAD faith , He was warning them YE better continue IN HIS GOODNESS .
I mean its not like unbelievers are IN HIS GOODNESS . ONLY BELIEVERS ARE .
SEe how simple that is . IF you CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS otherwise ye too shall be cast out .
THERE is only one tree . It consists of BELIEVERS ONLY , whether jew or gentile . NO man who is out of that tree has any hope
LEST of course they continue not in unbelief . Unbelievers are not in HIS GOODNESS . BELIEVERS ARE .
the GOODNESS o GOD is CHRIST JESUS .

 

[Wrangler]

But not they nor any other religoin , nor even many who go under this , will promote JESUS as the only means of salvation .
Cause that might offend .

Boy, you got that right!

Somewhere along the line, we've become so feminized as to suppose whoever is the most offended, wins.

I saw a meme that said, anyone who says something is racist, is the racist. I lived in Michigan when the SC ruled in the case that UofM could discriminate based on race - as long as it was the right race benefitting. I recently reminded a friend of this and he was all on board on the grounds that it makes up for past racism. So, I asked when will it be made up and we can move to a post-racial society, where equal protection under the law applies? Silence.

 

[JunChosen]

Having faith is just the continuation of the believing you started on the day you first believed God. Believing is how you accessed the efficacy of the blood of Christ sacrificed on the altar in heaven. As long as that believing does not cease your access to the mercy seat in heaven where Christ's blood was sacrificed does not cease either.

Believe/faith is a work that man do! Christians DO NOT work for their salvation!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s hard to question Ferris Bueller (lol), but I must somewhat play the role of Edward Rooney now:

You won't be able to squirm your way out of this one, Ferris.

 

[amigo de christo]

Boy, you got that right!

Somewhere along the line, we've become so feminized as to suppose whoever is the most offended, wins.

I saw a meme that said, anyone who says something is racist, is the racist. I lived in Michigan when the SC ruled in the case that UofM could discriminate based on race - as long as it was the right race benefitting. I recently reminded a friend of this and he was all on board on the grounds that it makes up for past racism. So, I asked when will it be made up and we can move to a post-racial society, where equal protection under the law applies? Silence.

What this shows us is that the world is going under a serious strong delusion that will cause them to eventually
not only try and eradicate any reminder of the truth , but also anyone who would dare to speak the truth and correct those in error .
We must cling to JESUS and be ready to suffer for HIS GLORIOUS NAME SAKE .
This world is fast finding common ground . ONLY its common ground is in an idea , in men , in the we are one world
and yet it is fast becoming a mindset and a world that though it hollers tolerance , its teeth are seen
with no tolerance against those who would speak the truth . On this path the next move will be more laws
and the laws wont only not tolerate truth , but even those who would speak and teach it . its gonna get worse my friend .
But let us not fear man . Just focus on Christ and biblical doctrine . And let us always forgive those who persecute us .
BUT , and yes this too is a BIG BUT , BUT NEVER CONFORM to their mindset . SIMPLY FOLLOW CHRIST and be prepared
to be seriously hated in the coming days and as i said times and laws will continue to get worse .
TILL the only religoin that will be tolerated is the all inclusive we are one , mindset and or religion .
But fundmanetal true christains , WILL NOT be tolerated . Satan is the one behind all of this and he works through men
who follow Not CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

Believe/faith is a work that man do! Christians DO NOT work for their salvation!

To God Be The Glory

How untrue this is . For faith cometh by the WORD of GOD . WHO is it that opens the eyes and brings man to saving faith .
Check this out . AND GOD added daily to the church such as should be saved .
What must we do to WORK the works of GOD . BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND . YE must have FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Can sin their way out of salvation"?

WEIRD.

Well that is what people who believe a person can lose their salvation can do.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Very interesting. I would like to hear more. I honestly didn't know of any OSASers besides Baptists.

for the old mainline protestant denominations? I know of none. For independent churches their are many many. Most are called "Baptistic" in their theology for they believe the Bible when it teaches eternal life given by Jesus is eternal. But in all denominations, you will find pockets of believers who hold to the truth of OSAS.

But here are some sects and orgs. that hold to it:

LUTHERANS
The Formula of Concord is a Lutheran confession of faith that is held by many Lutheran bodies of faith,

CALVARY CHAPELS

ARIEL MINISTRIES

THE BEREAN CALL, THE MINISTRY OF DAVE HUNT

 

[amigo de christo]

Ye shall know them by their fruits .
Who we obey is whose we are . Never forget that my friends . Never .
And let us remember this reminder from paul himself .
Dont you KNOW that to whom ye obey His servants you ARE .
Whether of sin unto death or of obediance unto righteousness .
Or this .
FOR if ye follow after the flesh you shall of the flesh reap CORRUPTION .
BUT if you , THROUGH THE SPIRIT , do mortify the deeds of the flesh , aka SIN
ye shall reap life everlasting . YES . FOLLOW THE KING , HEED THE SPIRIT and if any does err
correct them quick .
Since we are speaking of correction . Let us behold how paul saw sin within the church .
Now i can tell by reading corinthians paul was hoping they would repent before HE himself would have to deal with it .
He gave them a heads up . And reminded them , Dont think we wont be like we are by letters when we are present .
AKA , if you dont repent , prepare for the ROD OF CORRECTION . How come we aint this serious about sin anymore .
Have we been lulled to sleep by acroynms . WE better FOLLOW CHRIST and be learning His sayings
His pattern , the apostels pattern in all things . JESUS KNEW how to keep the church safe . WE better HEED HIM . LEARN that JESUS of the bible and those apostels doctrine very well .

 

[Taken]

Well that is what people who believe a person can lose their salvation can do.

Gotcha.
Never heartfully accepted the Lords Offering.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Everything was looking good , till your last few lines .
IF we take off from HEEDING CHRIST and continue on that path , our end is gonna be horrible .
Why do you think Jesus even warned about but he who continue unto the END shall be saved .
Why do we think paul was warning the hebrews about not letting the true faith slip .
For we are made partakers of CHRIST , IF WE HOLD our confidence firm to the END .
Your last line is highly dangerous . The least you could have said was , if they walked away they never knew HIM .
But what you said was dangerous my friend . You encourage a false hope when you say even if we deny HIM , walk way
From HIM he wont let us go . Paul never taught that . This generation sounds nothing like the early apostels
nor Christ . And that aint being judgmental , its stating a fact . ALL WE need to teach is JESUS ONLY SAVES
and that we must continue in the FAITH , in the HOPE of HIM . But no , now its got so bad
folks actually teach this stuff . WE should be exhorting folks to continue IN THE FAITH , not giving a false hope
that no matter what we do or how arrogant we are or etc . This is dangerous my friend . You should not teach it .

So you believe eternal life is temporary and dependent on you doing something?
You believe that you can pluck yourself out of God shand even though He said no one can?

Unfortunately you are citing passages that have nothing to do with salvation.

Paul did teach Jesus would never forsake us!
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

there is no footnote saying that He won't forsake you unless you forsake Him first.

The bible makes it clear- people who look saved but walk away- did not lose their salvation- they never had it!

Matt 7 , Jesus says I NEVER KNEW YOU, not I knew you once but don't know you now!

1 John 2 says there went out from us for they were not of us. They were tares in the midst of the wheat!

Sorry but once one is born again- they are a child of God forever! They may be a disobedient child at times and maybe even for a protracted season, but they are still a child!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You have obviously not been paying attention to every post in this thread. For there is biblical substantiation for the concept that people can fall away from faith in Jesus (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off from salvation in Jesus (Romans 11:20-22).



Obviously, if we sin willfully after having come to the full knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins remains (and the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is a sacrifice for sin, Hebrews 10:12).

So, whatever that willful sin is, if you commit it, you have sinned your way out of salvation.



There is at least one sin that may again separate you from God....willful sin...whatever that may be defined as.



Yes; and the way to do this is to stay in God's word and exhort one another daily with the word, lest any of us be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin; and depart from the living God because of an evil heart of unbelief.



Personally, I think it can (Ezekiel 33:11-20, 1 John 3:6). If someone ceases to abide, all they need to do is repent of their sins and they will be abiding again.



I would say the same to you, @Behold.

Your teaching is conducive towards people adopting a theology where they will be deceiving themselves so that the truth is not in them (1 John 1:8); in that you deny indwelling sin in your theology. No doubt you will do it again in response to this post.



Your theology is dark and lost.

You would give people the option of turning away from the faith, and you tell them that they will still be saved if they do.

If that is untrue (and it is untrue), then you are giving people a false assurance and if they bank on what you are saying and depart from the faith, they will be eternally lost. Thus you are contributing to souls going to hell for all of eternity.

I wouldn't want to be you on the day of judgment.



What tells you that the blood is the justifier? is it not this verse?

Rom 5:9, Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

So, I will agree with you that His blood is the justifier; because that scripture says we are justified by His blood.

Consider.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

So, if His blood is the justifier because we are justified by His blood; how is faith also not the justifier; since we are justified by faith?

But even though I have shown you logically why your doctrine is faulty, I know that you will persist in believing in your doctrine.

For it is written,

2Ti 3:13, But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.



It should be clear that those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can in fact fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22). This would indicate that they lose faith; since if they continue to have faith, they continue to be saved.

Make your posts smaller! I have to answer as many as 36 posts a day and I don't have time nor th ewill to go point by point from a rambling post.

No, I haven't read every post on this thread. I don't have to!

Yes you have shown me logically why my doctrine is faulty.

but I have shown you biblically why OSAS is Gods declaration on the matter.

You are guilty like so many others of pulling verses out of context, misapplying verses, and then using human logic to justify thinking God is not able to save His children.

But if we are to believe your doctrines: ( I won't go juvenile and call you dark and the other ad-homs you vomited on your post)

1. God is silly. He gives someone eternal life, knowing He is going to take it back again because of sin.

2. He makes people children of God only to throw them back and make them children of the devil again.

3. You require people to possibly be born again, then again, then again and then again-AGAIN!

4. YOU proclaim that Jesus didn't pay for all your sins, just most of them.

5. YOu believe Jesus initially saved you- now it is up to you (by His grace I assume) to maintain that saved state

6. God wastes His time sacving people knwoing that they will get unsaved later on.

7. This one is worth repeating---To you the blood of Jesus is not enough to wash away all your sin.

8. God will hold some sin against you - for He knows if you walk away, you will lose your salvation and that sin jesus did not die for in a believers life.

 

[marks]

Yes. But with one slight adjustment. God will always forgive our sin when we remain in him by faith.

What do you suppose it took for Abraham to remain righteous? After God had declared Him righteous?

You've asserted that your forgiveness of sins is doled out sin by sin, or is it confession by confession? Something like that, right?

Abraham is held up throughout Scripture as the pattern we all follow.

When you consider Abraham, what of his righteousness? God declared Abraham righteous, and Paul asserts Abraham remained righteous, was that because Abraham kept believing God would give him descendants? Would that be your thinking?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It should be clear that those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can in fact fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22). This would indicate that they lose faith; since if they continue to have faith, they continue to be saved.

This is what needs to be examined, I'm thinking.

Whether the "faith" of those who fall away is truly the same as the faith of those who do not.

Whether the state, or nature of those who will fall away is truly the same as the faith of those who do not.

If yes, this would mean to me that the spiritually born again might spiritually die again.

I believe the answer is resoundingly No. They are not the same.

I believe that those who will fall away do not have a faith that produces works, and that the most you can say about it is that they are holding a dead faith, and when it's tested, it will be revealed as not a true faith.

I don't think God accepts such a dead faith as He does saving faith, and does not give rebirth. It's without rebirth that they lack the endurance to remain.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1Jo 2:1, My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Amen.

But I must point out that based on Hebrews 10:26, this is referring to sins in ignorance. Not willful sins in defiance to God. There is no more advocates to appeal to if you commit sins in willful disobedience.

 

[JunChosen]

How untrue this is . For faith cometh by the WORD of GOD . WHO is it that opens the eyes and brings man to saving faith .
Check this out . AND GOD added daily to the church such as should be saved .
What must we do to WORK the works of GOD . BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHOM GOD DID SEND . YE must have FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS .[/I]

I Thessalonians 1:3 reads:

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Amen.

But I must point out that based on Hebrews 10:26, this is referring to sins in ignorance. Not willful sins in defiance to God. There is no more advocates to appeal to if you commit sins in willful disobedience.

Ultimately, ALL sins are WILLFUL SINS!!!

"The wages of sin (singular) is death!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Ultimately, ALL sins are WILLFUL SINS!!!

If you were fully familiar with scripture you wouldn’t make such a false statement as this.

See Numbers 15 and Hebrews 10:26.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are guilty like so many others of pulling verses out of context,

The eternal cry of those who can't handle what the holy scriptures have to say to them...

But if we are to believe your doctrines: ( I won't go juvenile and call you dark and the other ad-homs you vomited on your post)

I was merely repeating @Behold's vomit back to him and was not talking to you in that instance.

1. God is silly. He gives someone eternal life, knowing He is going to take it back again because of sin.

Those with a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith don't have everlasting life (Luke 8:12-13, Romans 11:20-22); while they may have been delivered from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14) and the kingdom of hell; if only for a season.

4. YOU proclaim that Jesus didn't pay for all your sins, just most of them.

Where do I proclaim that? I believe that Jesus died for all of my sins; because I don't commit willful sins against the Lord.

5. YOu believe Jesus initially saved you- now it is up to you (by His grace I assume) to maintain that saved state

Jesus saves me and keeps me saved, with my cooperation. If I am unwilling to walk in holiness, He is not going to continue to sanctify me.

But He keeps me walking in His goodness; and it is also true that if I cease to walk in His goodness, I will be cut off (Romans 11:20-22)

7. This one is worth repeating---To you the blood of Jesus is not enough to wash away all your sin.

If I sin willfully, after receiving the knowledge of the truth, the blood of Jesus doesn't any longer wash away any of my sin...but as long as Jesus continues to be Lord of my life, His blood continues to wash away every sin (for example, see John 15:13-14).

8. God will hold some sin against you - for He knows if you walk away, you will lose your salvation and that sin jesus did not die for in a believers life.

As long as I am Jesus' friend, God will not hold any sin against me (again, John 15:13-14).

If Jesus died for the sin of unbelief, than that amounts to Universalism; for He would have also died for the unbelief of all those who have never placed their faith in Jesus Christ.

Ultimately, ALL sins are WILLFUL SINS!!!

No; if you dream that you are sinning, for example, you are sinning; however in your dream state you do not have any control over what you are doing because everything is by and through your subconscious mind. That is merely one example. Another is when you are basically attracted to someone who is not your wife. That is sin (Matthew 5:27-28); but it is not necessarily anything that you have any control over.

As Martin Luther said, "You can watch the birds flying over head; just don't let them come and make a nest in your hair!"

And as Job said so clearly,

Job 31:1, I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

Therefore, in these days, I tend not to even watch the birds fly over head!