Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The case of the thief at the cross ... It is by faith that he was saved, and that by grace. And saved he is, what happens of his works?

I don't think he thief at the cross had the opportunity to fail to do the will of God after he called out to Jesus to be saved.

That fact even puts more emphasis that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. For if works really is a requirement or a basis for salvation, then it is no big thing that Jesus would have done something about that.

Tong2020 said: ↑
You see, we are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

Laps on the same subject. Yes, past tense, saved, not future tense. You cannot even use language correctly for doing so reveals the fallacy of your doctrine. We are saved by grace but then we obligations and responsibilities to meet as in Matthew 7:21 & John 15:1-2.

And that will be so with you then.

As for me there are no obligations to be met to be saved or remain saved. For I am already saved. If there is anything for me to do after that, it has nothing to do with what had been already accomplished, but has everything to do with what God had prepared for me to do.

Tong
R2752

 

[marks]

See these 2 verses you posted......

5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

= Next Sunday morning, in thousand of Churches, you have people who are hearing the Gospel and the anointing of God is in the room and its convicting them..

This is how you 'tasted the good word of God."

Everything said there can be applied to the Jews who received from Jesus' ministry, the apostles who shared in Jesus' ministry, even including Judas.

And in fact, this part, "the powers of the age to come", That's only through Jesus, not the church, who display powers of this age. But Jesus brought the Kingdom, showed it to Isreal, and they rejected Him, and His kingdom with Him.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

This post should be reported for it's rules violation, however, I'll simply mention it to you.

Much love!

Hardly as much of a rule violation as what @Blood Bought 1953 has been leveling against me.

I figure that we are on a "no-snitch" system right now...so I did not report him and I do not expect to be reported for similar things.

 

[marks]

Both.

OK. Let's follow this through a bit.

If you are saved, but you may not remain saved,

If you are kept saved by God's faithfulness to His promise, AND
you are also kept saved by your diligence to make your calling and election sure,

If you do not remain saved, I'd have to conclude that it would be because you've failed in your diligence, and not because God failed in His promise.

So then God's promise only remains for you if your diligence doesn't fail.

How is this not depending on yourself to keep yourself saved?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hardly as much of a rule violation as what @Blood Bought 1953 has been leveling against me.

I figure that we are on a "no-snitch" system right now...so I did not report him and I do not expect to be reported for similar things.

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern.

Christianity Board Forum Rules

This is what you agreed to when you joined.

 

[Wrangler]

See, if you are a Christ Rejector, you are not waiting for Damnation, as you are already damned.

So, Judgment Day is fictitious?

 

[justbyfaith]

Christianity Board Forum Rules

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians. If there is an issue where a member seems to have circumvented the basic tenants of the faith in order to join the community, please privately contact the Christianity Board Team to voice your concern.

This is what you agreed to when you joined.

I have not said that @Behold is not a Christian under certain, loosely-defined terms...

 

[Wrangler]

The last time you sinned you were not "continuing in His Goodness".

See, you have no idea what you are doing here.
YOu close you eyes and stick verses together in the darkness, and then you say..>"see, im a teacher".

Uh huh.

Your words are nonsense in the face of Scripture that was provided to you by justbyfaith @ Romans 11:20-22:
Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. 21 For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t[a] spare you either.

22 Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed

Who is God severe to? Jews? Gentiles? No. (All those) who disobeyed will not be spared paraphrases Romans 11:20-22. What are you closing your eyes to?

 

[marks]

I have not said that @Behold is not a Christian under certain, loosely-defined terms...

Those of us whom you term "Cross deniers" (while we are not denying the Cross) will soon be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So, those who are left behind will stay behind to cap off these message boards with heresy that will form the "one-world religion" of the last days.

I don't doubt that you will be around in that day to preach your version of the gospel.

[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

Maybe just not try to defend it? Just stop such, and move on?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Maybe just not try to defend it? Just stop such, and move on?

he can be a "Christian" and still be around after the rapture, on several counts.

1) if he has a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith, he can fall away (Luke 8:13).

2) he may be a Christian in name only.

 

[marks]

he can be a "Christian" and still be around after the rapture, on several counts.

1) if he has a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith, he can fall away (Luke 8:13).

2) he may be a Christian in name only.

Well then nevermind. Thought I'd be polite. I'll just say this sort of thing is against the rules we all agreed to keep, and trying to defend one's violation of those rules, what's up with that?

I think this thread should be closed, if this is what it's dissolved into.

@lforrest

 

[justbyfaith]

Well then nevermind. Thought I'd be polite. I'll just say this sort of thing is against the rules we all agreed to keep, and trying to defend one's violation of those rules, what's up with that?

I think this thread should be closed, if this is what it's dissolved into.

@lforrest

I have not violated the rules; because I have not specifically said that he is not a Christian.

You have set a precedent here for all of us.

In calling on the moderators here, you have made it clear that when or if you violate any rule, you want the moderators to be sicced on you.

 

[justbyfaith]

I define a Christian as anyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord".

See Matthew 7:21.

 

[marks]

I have not violated the rules; because I have not specifically said that he is not a Christian.

You have set a precedent here for all of us.

In calling on the moderators here, you have made it clear that when or if you violate any rule, you want the moderators to be sicced on you.

Try to keep things on a nicer level, start a flame war.

Great!

You might want to give some consideration to this kind of attitude.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

I told you, but you don't listen.

I don't think that the Lord is going to hold me accountable for not listening to someone who, by definition, is deceiving himself and the truth is not in him (1 John 1:8) over the fact that he denies the faithful doctrine of indwelling sin.

explains why you live on this forum like its your life.
Perhaps you should get a real life, instead.
That's what i think.

Of course my ministry is primarily on these boards and so I will also continue to pour my life into what I am posting here; for I know that my reward shall be great in heaven over the things that I minister; if not for the fact that the things I say draw from the unbelieving, persecution for righteousness' sake (John 15:18-20, Matthew 5:10-12, Luke 6:22-23, 2 Timothy 3:10-12).

 

[justbyfaith]

Try to keep things on a nicer level, start a flame war.

Great!

You might want to give some consideration to this kind of attitude.

Much love!

You call that the beginning of a flame war?

Here is something better...

I think that makes you a TSI (thin-skinned individual).

Since you have already accused me of flaming, I don't find it to be unconscionable to respond with what might be determined as a flame.

Since I am showing, by comparison, that the original statement was not a flame.

So, that is my defense.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...when you get into specific syntax and all, which shows "have become a partaker" as showing a new enduring state.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end Hebrews 3:14​

As you know, 'have become partakers of Christ' is a Perfect tense verb. That means the ongoing result of the action of becoming a partaker of Christ is still in effect all the way up to the present (that's what the Perfect tense means). And the verse says that ongoing result is conditional on you continuing to believe.

I'm just reading it for the conditional statement that it is, mindful of what the Perfect tense means. If you Google what the Perfect tense means you'll see I have the correct understanding of this. From what I can remember, the mistake you're making is thinking the Perfect tense means the results of the completed action continue into the future and never end (that is not correct). And that incorrect understanding of the Perfect tense causes you to make continued believing the never ending result of having been made a partaker of Christ.

 

[marks]

For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end Hebrews 3:14​

As you know, 'have become partakers of Christ' is a Perfect tense verb. That means the ongoing result of the action of becoming a partaker of Christ is still in effect all the way up to the present (that's what the Perfect tense means). And the verse says that ongoing result is conditional on you continuing to believe.

I'm just reading it for the conditional statement that it is, mindful of what the Perfect tense means. If you Google what the Perfect tense means you'll see I have the correct understanding of this. From what I can remember, the mistake you're making is thinking the Perfect tense means the results of the completed action continue into the future and never end (that is not correct). And that incorrect understanding of the Perfect tense causes you to make continued believing the never ending result of having been made a partaker of Christ.

I don't actually need to google this. And it's perfectly clear that future conditions can modify the meaning. My favorite example of the perfect tense is a "rung bell", or, as Paul says, "Have I not seen the risen Lord?" But if that bell ceases to exist, it evidently won't be anything, a rung bell, an unrung bell, nothing.

Paul uses it to say, I'm a person who has seen the risen Lord, as a condition that does not change. So long as there is a "Paul", there is one who has seen the risen Lord.

To your argument, this doesn't actually address the order of the conditional statement that is being made.

If you continue, you've become a partaker. If you don't continue, you haven't become a partaker. This is in agreement with the rest of Scripture. "They went out from us . . . no of us . . . had they been of us, the would have remained."

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Now, we ask these questions:

Those who are believing today, are they partakers of Christ?

Those who stop believing today, were they partakers of Christ before today?

(follow my reasoning...)

Those who stop believing today, did they believe in Christ before today?

If they stopped believing, then they believed.

So, they were partakers of Christ if the answer to the first question is always yes (that those who believe today, are always partakers of Christ).

Therefore, the answer to the first question is not always yes (because if they do not continue in the faith, but believe today, they were not partakers of Christ; and yet, those who stopped believing, believed before, and therefore if the answer to the question is always yes, they were partakers of Christ before.)

Therefore, those who believe today are not necessarily, always, partakers of Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The last time you sinned you were not "continuing in His Goodness".

See, you have no idea what you are doing here.
YOu close you eyes and stick verses together in the darkness, and then you say..>"see, im a teacher".

Uh huh.

“ Stick verses together in the darkness?....lol......that was what he used to do back in the good old days.....He has now outdone himself with a newer ploy.....like in another thread where he more or less claims that a Promise Of God is invalid because God , unlike him, was too dumb to foresee that a certain Promise could be taken wrong by some heathen......
God messed up when mistakenly put in Romans 10:13....... that verse that says , “ Anybody that asks to be Saved will be saved?” Well, God’s critic, justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance, says that Promise does not count because somebody could ask Allah to save them and they would be saved......Poor God.....what on “ earth” was He thinking when He made that Glorious Promise that exposed His eagerness to Save , how easy it was to be Saved, and the Amazing Grace That prompted it.....
A man with a history of blasphemies and Bible Ignorance was finally given enough rope to hang himself and sure enough, he did just that....
So let’s take stock here—— if any Promise of God comes along that unarguably blows your Perverted Gospel Of “Lucky Repentance” or any other Falsehood out of the water , don't ever swallow your pride, admit that you were wrong and move on.....instead, set God straight and chasten Him for allowing False Promises to be included in His Word.....The Damnation Of such Types was welcomed by Paul....and who am I to argue with Paul.....I can’t believe this Monster is allowed to post in these Forums....I can’t believe that I am the only one that I have seen that is outraged by his latest Blasphemy....