The Absolute Equality of Jesus With The Father
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yhwh has been around a long long time-- Yahweh or Jehoivah are just teh anglicized pronunications- so you are being noit picky there.
Jesus is Called god in John 1
Jesus is testified as being equal to God in John 2!
God the Father did not die- God the Son did!
God is a generic term meaning deity. Actually Yahweh is usually referred to as the Father and Jesus as the Son but in Is. 44:
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
There is Jehovah the King of Israel, and there is Jehovah the King of Israels' redeemer--Jehovah of Hosts. That is SCripture as written not interpreted.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
As for inequality of position and exaltation? I agree! The Father is above all as Scripture declares. but as to their divinity? they are both equally divine or deity! The Father is not more God than the Son.
As I showed in another thread:
1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The son reigns as King until the end of the millenial kingdom. Then He yields all back to His Father!
Remember God is both a title and a generic term. Most times in the NT God is used to denote the Father instead of the son.
John 5:
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
This comment is not from the Pharisees but from God who inspired John to write it! Jesus is equal with God.
Jesus cannot be "separate" to the Father of the Holy Spirit, as they ALL are the same Godhead, and essentially One. They are "distinct" Persons
when אָדוֹן is used for the God of the Bible, it is in the masculine singular. I am not aware of any use in the OT, where the plural form אֲדֹנִים is used for God.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Welol I suspect we are saying the exact same thing in different ways. I say separate you say distinct. I say tomato you say tamatoe !
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Adonai ( אֲדֹנָי, lit. "My Lords") is the plural form of adon ("Lord") along with the first-person singular pronoun enclitic. As with Elohim, Adonai's grammatical form is usually explained as a plural of majesty. In the Hebrew Bible, it is nearly always used to refer to God (approximately 450 occurrences).
Your Hebrew is the singular ADON! If you look carefully the vowel points in my cite have more vowels in the plural. God is called Adonai (plural almost 450 times.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not His Father, nor a different manifestation of His Father. He is a separate "entity" from the Father. He co-exists in unity with His Father.
He's a separate entity but co- exists with...
No thing is able to be other than of and from the creator of it.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Colossians 1:16
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
If the Son wasn't a separate distinct being, with a life and will of His own, He could not have died.
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
or, as the Hebrew,
“the Sumerian language…a later a-a, ‘father’ = ‘begetter’…a-a-kalam-ma, ‘father of the land’, i.e., begetter and creator of the world…Like the other Semitic languages…abu... ‘father’…is used as a synonym for banu, ‘begetter’…In Hebrew ‘abh sometimes means the founder…protector” (Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. I, under ‘abh).
“Of the author, or maker of anything, specially of the Creator” (Gesenius Hebrew lexicon)
“originator, producer, generator, protector, ruler” (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew lexicon)
“It designates primarily “begetter,” though by extension, ancestor, and metaphorically, an originator, chief, or associate in some degree” (R. Laird Harris, Gleason L. Archer, Jr., and Bruce K. Waltke; Theological Wordbook of The Old Testament)
Jesus Christ is not the same "Person" as God the Father, they are distinct
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
He died all right - and He was raised bodily - the spirit leaves the body at death.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.
You cant kill the Holy Spirit.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Our redemption is predicated on Christ's taking our rightful penalty for sin upon Himself. That penalty was death. The second death. Any death that only applies to the body whereby a part of us survives and lives on... Whether you call it spirit or soul... Is not death.
Jesus Christ is never the Father, He cannot be, as this destroys any distinction in the Godhead, and renders many Bible passages as useless
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