The Star Spangled Banner

rockytopva said:

But... My people were filled with the Holy Ghost! As the Spirit of God bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God we really do no care what you think!

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Your people are dead.

And you seem to have no idea of the things that were dear to them in heart and mind for you contradict everything they stood for, worked for and possibly died for.

That your ancestors were infused of the Holy Spirit I have no doubt. That you are, I cannot say.
I can say this, however, that being filled with the Holy Spirit is not the same as being politically correct and radically nationalistic.
That is a bird of a different feather. (BTW, the symbol of the Holy Spirit is a white dove, not the Bald Eagle.)

Jesus wasn't in the habit of being politically correct. The apostles didn't spend their lives kowtowing to the rulers of whatever city they went to.
They were killed and imprisoned because of it, but you seem to have forgotten that in your rush to associate Churchianity with the American flag.
Super nationalism affects the mind like that. Yes it does.

The gospel of Christ is above all that, but that isn't the issue is it?
You've very neatly subverted the debate about American extremist nationalism and diverted the subject to religious belief.

It isn't about religion or Christianity, especially when you deny the precepts of liberty, faith in God and human rights; substituting instead mindless adoration of a country that is not at all what it seems to be.
The American government supports and encourages ruthless dictators throughout the world. When and where necessary it engineers their demise and replaces their reign with another. Generally the replacement is far worse. This is not the action of a righteous and kind government OR PEOPLE.

Ever wonder why Americans are hated all over the world? God forbid anyone should actually think about that.
There's a reason for it and a reason why haters of America get thousands of people to back their own version of radical liberation.

America at home is a land of brain washed, brain dead semi-illiterate children who march to the tune of their debauched leaders.
The average American attention span is thirty seconds. Why would anyone take a full minute to consider what they believe?
Gone are the days of liberty, but no one cares.
They just wave their pretty flag, remember childhood memories with a tear in their eye, and hypnotize themselves into lethargy.

America abroad is wicked, corrupt, and brutal. We practice torture upon those who are convicted of no crime, while no CHRISTIAN raises a protest. We support brutal governments and topple them when we wish, all the time waving the pretty Stars and Stripes and telling ourselves "what a good boy am I".

[In case you didn't know, the primary cause of the fall of the Egyptian government was due to AMERICAN action, not radical Islamists.
The Muslims just came in like vultures to clean up the mess WE made.]

Your brand of Churchianity stinks in the nostrils of God and it is because of this mindless uncritical attitude that we are drinking from the cup of divine judgment;
- for our arrogance, constant war
- for our passive indifference to God, foolishness and confusion

Then again I could be wrong. God would NEVER judge America.
We're too right, too pure, too good, too big to fall and too arrogant to admit we are wrong.

It is time for AMERICAN repentance - not flag waving.
If you really are in tune with the Holy Spirit, you'll know this to be true.
If not, then you'll just trot out another verse of America The Beautiful and go back to sleep.

I just skimmed your post rjp but I think I agree...

The problem seems to be an assumption that comments of national (the State of the US) are somehow called into question the acts of the HS...

You are right in that he's very cooly transformed the argument from one into the other.



I will slam generations before us. Always will. Once more, READ WHAT I POST, I am not talking about the founding fathers. I am talking about the past couple generations, from the 1940s and on, especially. Ignoring their destructive policies that got us where we are at today is just that: ignorance. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it". Those who chose to IGNORE history, I'd maintain, are more than doomed.

TexUs said:

I just skimmed your post rjp but I think I agree...

The problem seems to be an assumption that comments of national (the State of the US) are somehow called into question the acts of the HS...

You are right in that he's very cooly transformed the argument from one into the other.



I will slam generations before us. Always will. Once more, READ WHAT I POST, I am not talking about the founding fathers. I am talking about the past couple generations, from the 1940s and on, especially. Ignoring their destructive policies that got us where we are at today is just that: ignorance. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it". Those who chose to IGNORE history, I'd maintain, are more than doomed.

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"I will slam generations.....from the 1940's on..."

Agreed. Whole heartedly. I'll put a fine point on it too.

I am a degreed student of history. Scholars generally refer to dates, persons and places when marking landmarks or turning points.
A major turning point in united States history was in 1947 when the National Security Council was created by President Harry Truman (National Security Act).
Harry was pressured by certain members of the military and a cadre of large corporations that supplied material to the uS government during WWII.
The act also established the Central Intelligence Agency.

In effect, the act usurped the requirement of the Constitution which says that only congress shall have the ability to declare war.
Since 1947 there have been many wars, none of which were declared by congress ACCORDING TO OUR OWN LAW. Therefore every war since then has been illegal, including Viet Nam (myself present for that fiasco), the Gulf War of the 1990's and the current mess in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A lot of people (my parents included) liked to blame FDR for our troubles, but the root of it was really the responsibility of Harry Truman.

As an update to this issue, in May of 2009 President Barack Obama merged Homeland Security with the National Security Council to create the National Security Staff (NSS).
In effect, the concentration of power in the executive branch continued with drastic enhancement. Once again the American people are dazed and unaware of yet another attack on our liberty.
Mr. Obama had no jurisdiction in this matter, yet he assumed it nonetheless.

To return to your statement sir, that dating from the 1940's (1947 to be precise) the united States has been in steady decline is a fact of which no truthful person will deny.

rocky, you keep changing tactics to avoid discussion so it's not even worth responding to you if you can't keep on track.

[email protected] said:

To return to your statement sir, that dating from the 1940's (1947 to be precise) the united States has been in steady decline is a fact of which no truthful person will deny.

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I'd even argue it came before that.
FDR's social agendas. They established the mentality that, "Big government is OK". Without that groundwork mentality in place I don't know if Truman's national security acts could've gone anywhere.

It's just splitting hairs though. The point is that almost EVERYTHING that our government does that's bad and/or they shouldn't be involved in, stemmed from the 40s. (With the exception of the national reserve).
Greedy generation.
Then the generation after that thought that sense the prior generation did it, they'd build on it.
Then this generation is feeling the effects of the greed of the prior two.

TexUs said:

rocky, you keep changing tactics to avoid discussion so it's not even worth responding to you if you can't keep on track.

I'd even argue it came before that.
FDR's social agendas. They established the mentality that, "Big government is OK". Without that groundwork mentality in place I don't know if Truman's national security acts could've gone anywhere.

It's just splitting hairs though. The point is that almost EVERYTHING that our government does that's bad and/or they shouldn't be involved in, stemmed from the 40s. (With the exception of the national reserve).
Greedy generation.
Then the generation after that thought that sense the prior generation did it, they'd build on it.
Then this generation is feeling the effects of the greed of the prior two.

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Your make a good point about the present 'entitlement mentality' having it's root in the Social Security Act. I've heard it described as a huge legal ponzi scheme.

I don't know that I'd go quite that far, however. IMO all the present governmental financial problems would be resolved if the military were cut back. The decommissioning of only one nuclear aircraft carrier would allow a budgetary shift of money to support free medical treatment for everybody in America, including the illegal aliens. There's that much money being wasted on the military.

[email protected] said:

Your make a good point about the present 'entitlement mentality' having it's root in the Social Security Act. I've heard it described as a huge legal ponzi scheme.

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Pretty much- in 10 years it'll collapse on itself.

[email protected] said:

I don't know that I'd go quite that far, however. IMO all the present governmental financial problems would be resolved if the military were cut back. The decommissioning of only one nuclear aircraft carrier would allow a budgetary shift of money to support free medical treatment for everybody in America, including the illegal aliens. There's that much money being wasted on the military.

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While that might be true, I think you underestimate exactly how much the socialist programs cost us. (Hint: it's the vast majority):


Over half of the entire budget goes to social programs. (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security). That "Discretionary Spending" is largely social programs as well. DOE, EPA,


The Defense budget is minor in comparison to the atrocity FDR started with the Socialist programs, and still why I'm going to say it's the elephant in the room and the major cause of our current financial situation, not Truman's military bills.

rjp, you could completely remove all military spending from the budget but that would not solve our financial issues.

Medicare / Medicaid and Social Security each INDIVIDUALLY make up a greater share of the budget than military spending and there is definitely waste that can be cut from those programs.

Combined they make up a heck of a lot more spending than spending on the military.

Let's look at something. A new idea that crossed my mind.

The President cannot touch Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, or other mandatory spending. He can't touch it.
Discretionary spending is $660B, right? This is the money he can cut.
Now, I don't know how much of the DoD he could cut. Maybe half?


Our deficit is $1.4T. If the President could completely cut the DoD along with all other discretionary spending... We'd just start to break even.


That is the terrible financial condition we are in right now. You can cut every penny the President could cut, and the entire military, and the Social programs that FDR started would still be bankrupting this country all on their own.


That's why this isn't a problem that will be solved by cuts. It's not a problem that will be solved by any method OTHER THAN an act of Congress shutting Social Security and Medicare down.

rockytopva said:

So that is what happens without a strong military.

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You do realize in ten years we have more than doubled it, don't you?

We can have a strong military without spending $700B to do it.

TexUs said:

You do realize in ten years we have more than doubled it, don't you?

We can have a strong military without spending $700B to do it.

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Thank you for going the extra mile to provide the graph of spending. It should be noted, however, that military spending falls into several financial categorys thus masking the total money siphoned off the uS taxpayer's backs. I doubt if any citizen or many law makers for that matter have a really accurate idea how much is going out.

For example, the uS budget allows X amount of dollars for the military. That does not include discretionary spending such as combat in Iraq, Afghanistan and wherever else the generals and admirals want to create mischief.

Do we really need a Navy that is larger than the next seventeen countries combined?
At the peak of the power of the Roman Empire, nearly forty foreign bases had been built and were occupied (39 actually).
At the peak of the British Empire, about eighty English bases were constructed all across the globe.
The uS Pentagon admits to eight hundred manned and operational military facilities and bases throughout the world. Some conservative civilian estimates tack that figure at over a thousand.

And what profit do Americans get out of all that military power? Pseudo-strip searches at every airport, Osama Bin Ladan still on the loose, a growing threat (not less) from Muslim extremists, and last but not least increasing usurpation of Federal power over the liberties endowed upon us by God and the uS Constitution. The rights of individual states to govern their cities and communities is being drained off and centralized in Washington, a city which either cannot or will not pay attention to the wishes of the people.

Add to that the rumors that our military is not all that strong. I have spoken to active duty members of the army and navy and they relate stories of low moral and a consistant ineffectiveness in combat readiness. Part of the low morale is due to benefits and pay, which is due to the members of the armed forces, NOT BEING PAID either promptly or not at all. I'm sure the reader has heard horror stories about lack of proper medical care, food distribution, etc. so I'll not list them here.

So I ask the reader, where is all the money going if not to the people in the service who deserve it simply because they are doing a job? I honestly don't know. Do you?

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."
- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

This was written prior to King's death in 1968.

"The bill for the military is way too high, above cold-war peak levels, when this country had a superpower adversary. There's a point where the next military spending dollar does not make our society more secure, and it's a point we long ago passed."
- NY Times 02/2011

"U.S. military spending, plus funds for U.S. nuclear bombs, is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined. Of those 15 countries, 12 are considered U.S. allies."
- War Resisters League (2009)

The fact is that the Pentagon is no longer under civilian control. Military spending cannot be regulated by ANY president, Republican or Democrat.
We are being constantly asked to make sacrifices to support the War du Jour.

America is drunk on war.

Where shall the line be drawn? When is enough going to be enough?

It's not just war, it's the "Government is God" mantra and contrary to what Martin Luther King Jr says, that includes social programs. He was simply arguing against one extreme and advocating for another extreme.

It comes down to this: our dependence on government.

Until our dependence comes back to God, we'll always have these problems.

"We say we trust God, but we really don't... so let's tax people and use the GOVERNMENT to provide social services- because we don't trust God to do it"

TexUs said:

It's not just war, it's the "Government is God" mantra .....

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True. Quite true. That's what scares me, that people can't or won't see the difference.

I wish God Bless America was our National Anthem. It would be a much better song to represent our country, IMHO. I love it when they play it and the crowd sings along during the 7th inning stretch at Dodger Stadium, and at other Major League ballparks.

crixus said:

I wish God Bless America was our National Anthem. It would be a much better song to represent our country, IMHO. I love it when they play it and the crowd sings along during the 7th inning stretch at Dodger Stadium, and at other Major League ballparks.

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I really like "God Bless America" too.