Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Tong2020 · Aug 20, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Let me bring you back to Romans 5:12-19. I want to ask you something in verse 14.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Do you know of sin that is not according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam?

Click to expand...

To answer your question, a sin that does not result in sin entering into the world, and death through sin, and spreading death to all men (Romans 5:12).

A clever one, I have to say.

Then, that would be saying all sins are not according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam. And that would put out the sense of what Paul was making out of verse 14.

Well, anyway, thank you for giving your answer.

Tong
R4070

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
At least you admit that man has a will. So, Adam has a will.

Did Adam had a bond-will before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

"He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place" (Genesis 2:21).

"the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

"the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Your questioning a type of "will" for Adam is meritless because Paul removed any concern by writing "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Tong2020 said:
Irrelevant to my statement.

"The matter of God’s salvation of fallen man is something that belongs only to God" except salvation for the fallen man cannot happen unless the fallen man chooses God according to free-will philosophy.

That is relevant to free-will philosophy.

Tong2020 said:
Yes, fallen man.

"the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46) wrote rhe Apostle Paul.

So according to Paul the first man Adam is the natural man (1 Corinthians 15:46).

"natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14) wrote Paul.

to Adam God said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17).

According to scripture, Adam (a natural man, 1 Corinthians 15:46) did not understand (the things of God were foolishness to Adam, 1 Corinthians 2:14) everything about God's command of "You shall not eat from it" regarding the tree (Genesis 3:17).

Moreover, the natural man Adam opposes the thing of God (Galatians 5:17), that is, God's command of "You shall not eat from it" regarding the tree (Genesis 3:17).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 20, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
At least you admit that man has a will. So, Adam has a will.

Did Adam had a bond-will before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Click to expand...

"He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place" (Genesis 2:21).

"the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

"the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

Your questioning a type of "will" for Adam is meritless because Paul removed any concern by writing "not willingly" (Romans 8:20).

So, while you believe that God created and made man with a will, which you call “bond-will”, you cannot seem to give a clear answer to the question “Did Adam had a bond-will before he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?”. I think I understand why.

Kermos said:
"The matter of God’s salvation of fallen man is something that belongs only to God" except salvation for the fallen man cannot happen unless the fallen man chooses God according to free-will philosophy.

That is relevant to free-will philosophy.

Irrelevant to my statement.

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes, fallen man.

Click to expand...

"the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46) wrote rhe Apostle Paul.

So according to Paul the first man Adam is the natural man (1 Corinthians 15:46).

"natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14) wrote Paul.

to Adam God said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17).

According to scripture, Adam (a natural man, 1 Corinthians 15:46) did not understand (the things of God were foolishness to Adam, 1 Corinthians 2:14) everything about God's command of "You shall not eat from it" regarding the tree (Genesis 3:17).

Moreover, the natural man Adam opposes the thing of God (Galatians 5:17), that is, God's command of "You shall not eat from it" regarding the tree (Genesis 3:17).

So you believe that God created Adam, whom you refer to the natural man. And this man He created is one who by nature opposes God? Well,….

And Adam had no full understanding of the commandment of God to him in Gen.2:16-17? What is it that he do not understand in the commandment?

And the things of God (such as commandment in Gen. 2:16-17) was foolishness? Well,…..wow,….

Tong
R4071

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed>>>

At least you know that.

Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind, and soul.

A person cannot love God rightly unless God is love in the person for the Apostle John wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

John emphasized the words of the Lord Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34, Jesus is God (John 20:28), so you just said love with the love of God with His words of "even as I have loved you").

Tong2020 said:
Obey or disobey. Your choice.

In effect, you are calling Jesus a deceiving spirit for:

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God)

Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5, includes righteously obeying God).

Lord Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21, even coming to Jesus in obedience is wrought in God).

There you go again, in effect, you calling Joshua is a false prophet when he declared "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) to the people in attendance.

Tong2020 said:
The “fallen” natural man.

Adam heeded the voice of his wife Eve. To heed or not to heed.

The Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17 DOES NOT say "Adam heeded the voice of his wife Eve. To heed or not to heed".

In your heart you say that God said "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

Your heart's contention is not what God said.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Tong2020 said:
Paul was not talking about Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Romans 8:20-22.

Tong
R4063

Your heart says "Adam" (Genesis 2:7) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "tree" (Genesis 2:9) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "ate" (Genesis 3:6) is not an event that occurred prior to "now", and Paul wrote "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "not willingly" occurs without application to "the whole creation" and "until now", and Paul wrote "not willingly" and "the whole creation" and "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 20, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<a command of God is obeyed or disobeyed>>>

At least you know that.

Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind, and soul.

Click to expand...

A person cannot love God rightly unless God is love in the person for the Apostle John wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

John emphasized the words of the Lord Jesus "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34, Jesus is God (John 20:28), so you just said love with the love of God with His words of "even as I have loved you").

The point remains, obey or disobey God’s command, your choice. In both cases, there is consequence.

Whether one is able to obey is a different point.

Here’s another example commandment. Do not steal. Obey or disobey, your choice.

Questions:
1. When you are stealing, are you not in disobedience?
2. When you are not stealing, are you not in obedience?

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Obey or disobey. Your choice.

Click to expand...

In effect, you are calling Jesus a deceiving spirit for:

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God)

Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5, includes righteously obeying God).

Lord Jesus says "he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21, even coming to Jesus in obedience is wrought in God).

There you go again, in effect, you calling Joshua is a false prophet when he declared "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) to the people in attendance.

<<<In effect, you are calling Jesus a deceiving spirit…>>>

Nope! That’s you think it is. But nope. I will never ever even have any thoughts doing that to my Lord Jesus Christ.

<<<There you go again, in effect, you calling Joshua is a false prophet when he declared "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) to the people in attendance.>>>

Nope. Just believing what Joshua 24:31 plainly says. Seems you really have a problem with one like me who believes what scripture says concerning the people of Israel in that point of time in the past.

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
The “fallen” natural man.

Adam heeded the voice of his wife Eve. To heed or not to heed.

Click to expand...

Kermos said:
The Word of God recorded in Genesis 3:17 DOES NOT say "Adam heeded the voice of his wife Eve. To heed or not to heed".

Nobody is saying that Genesis 3:17 says that verbatim.

Kermos said:
In your heart you say that God said "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

Your heart's contention is not what God said.

You don’t know my heart. So that would make your statements as being only what evil you think of my heart. Such character you have there.

Kermos said:
God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

Nope. You have to learn how not to speak for others. Besides you don’t absolutely know my heart.

Kermos said:
God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

What God literally stated in Gen.3:17 is about the reason why He (God) will to do this: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”, in consequence to Adam’s heeding the voice of his wife and have eaten from the tree of which God commanded him, to not eat of.

Kermos said:
You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

I pray to God that you learn to not speak for others.

And again, Nope!

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Paul was not talking about Adam’s eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Romans 8:20-22.

Click to expand...

Your heart says "Adam" (Genesis 2:7) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "tree" (Genesis 2:9) is not part of "the whole creation", and Paul wrote "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "ate" (Genesis 3:6) is not an event that occurred prior to "now", and Paul wrote "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

Your heart says "not willingly" occurs without application to "the whole creation" and "until now", and Paul wrote "not willingly" and "the whole creation" and "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Nothing new? Same old pointless statements starting with the “you…..” You seem to want to talk about what you think evil of me than about what scriptures say. Well,….

Tong
R4072

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
That’s right. However there is such thing as misusing and misunderstanding of scriptures.

The evidence of you adulterating the Word of God is in this post and
this post and this post

Tong2020 said:
Not if the one who says that knows that his choosing and accepting Him is the working of God in and on him.

In effect, you are calling Jesus a deceiving spirit for:

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God)

Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The word of @Tong2020 is the opposite of the Word of God.

Tong2020 said:
Nope. For I was not referring to those portions of your post which are quotations from the Bible. God knows that. You apparently don’t.

Tong
R4064

@Tong2020, the post has a plethora of scripture to which you referred to as "wells without water",

The post heads off with the citation of "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6).

This means that either you called Jesus' words of Christ being Life "wells without water" or you arrogantly called when I wrote your words are not life "wells without water".

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
<<<Question 1) Did Adam know good and evil before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

No.

Fantastic, your answer to question 1 is accurate according the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22).

Tong2020 said:
<<<Question 2) Did Adam know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

No.

Fantastic, your answer to question 2 is accurate according the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22).

Tong2020 said:
<<<Question 3) Did Adam, not knowing good and evil, willingly do evil in violating God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

Adam, willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in disobedience to God’s command not to eat of it.

<<<The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly subject creation to futility by eating of the tree of the knowledge good and evil (Romans 8:20-22)>>>

False! Need a hint?

Your answer to question 3 contradicts your answer to question 2.

Disobedience to God's command by man is evil.

In question 2 you acknowledge that Adam did not know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil.

Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.

In other words, in your heart you have Adam "willing" evil against God's command, yet Adam does not know evil.

You contradict yourself which is confusion, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

You call the Apostle Paul a liar because Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly subject creation to futility by eating of the tree of the knowledge good and evil (Romans 8:20-22).

Tong2020 said:
<<<Question 4) What caused Adam to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

Eve gave him the fruit to eat. And Adam heeded the voice of his wife.

Tong
R4065

Fantastic, your answer to question 4 is accurate according the Word of God "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17).

The NASB, ESV, and NIV use "listened", and the NKJV uses "heeded".

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
No matter what you say to explain away the scriptures in Joshua 24, that the people have not chosen to serve the Lord, what scriptures says remain to be the prevailing truth.

Between what you say and what God says in scriptures, needless to say, I believe the clear and explicit words of God in scriptures.

Tong
R4066

Then it sounds like you are calling Joshua a false prophet because Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

You can't show that they chose God with God's blessing because scripture does not state such.

The people did not fully serve God as is shown in the scripture references below; therefore, the people's choice to serve the Lord is proven to be false because they failed to serve the Lord.

By the way, all the days of Joshua and the elders, that is not the same thing as all the days of those people.

Joshua's death is recorded in Joshua 24:29, and his burial is recorded in Joshua 24:30; therefore, Joshua does not appear to be the author of Joshua 24:31.

You must subtract these words of Joshua "You will not be able to serve the LORD,..." (Joshua 24:19) in order to claim that the people fully served the Lord based upon Joshua 24:31.

And you must add to scripture that the people in attendance when Joshua spoke (Joshua 24:23) put away the foreign gods before scripture records that the later people put away the foreign gods. Again this is explained below.

Joshua 24:31 does not say that the people exclusively served God, in fact, the scripture continues on to reveal that the people in attendance at Joshua's exchange with the people recorded in Joshua 24:1-28 - that the people in attendance did not do as Joshua commanded them.

Regarding when Joshua said "You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him" (Joshua 24:22):

From the time that Joshua commanded "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23) until after Joshua's death (Joshua 24:29) and after Othneil (Judges 3:9) and after Ehud (Judges 3:15) and after Shamgar (Judges 3:31) and after Deborah and Barak (Judges 4-5) and after Gideon (Judges 6-8) and after Tola (Judges 10:1) and after Jair (Judges 10:3), it was not until after all that time that...

After all that time it is written "they put away the foreign gods from among them" (Judges 10:16), and there is no record of the Israelites putting away the foreign gods prior to that time.

Judges 10:16 contains the first occurrence of "foreign gods" after Joshua 24:23.

So there is no record of the people in attendance fulfilling Joshua's command of "Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst" (Joshua 24:23), and non-performance of the command shows fruit contrary of their choice mentioned by Joshua.

Because the people in attendance did not "put away the foreign gods" (Joshua 24:23), then:

(1) those people proved the word of Joshua true that those people were not able to serve YHWH, "for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19) and

(2) those people were not FULLY serving God or

(3) those people were partially serving God and

(4) those people were not loving YHWH God with all their heart and with all their soul and with all their strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) and

(5) a little leaven leavens the whole loaf so

(6) those people's choice is scripturally demonstrated to be invalid.

The truth is no scripture states that man was imparted free will.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

grumix8 said:
You only repeat and repat only valor but none the less yoru wrong there because neither words you have but just your juts saying your right all the time and so on and on.

That is a whole lot of useless "word of @grumix8", which is not life.

In truth, the Word of God is life (John 14:6).

Now, that is yet another post on page 43 with the word of grumix8, and not one scripture quotation to support freewill
(just like this post shows one more similar posts on page 35 which has a predecessor this post shows two more similar posts on page 33 which has a predecessor this post shows one more similar posts on page 32 which has a predecessor of this post shows four more similar posts on page 28 which has a predecessor of this post showing you did the same on page 23).

That’s a whole lot of your thoughts without the Word of God!

Your thoughts that you control you being saved from the wrath of God in your freewill keep heaping up into your precepts of men that lead to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

A word about your thoughts. It is written, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written “do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote “nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Revelation 21:27) – notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God’s thoughts with man’s thoughts, and that is evil.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam “not willingly” ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul’s birth by his writing “until now” (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 20, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s right. However there is such thing as misusing and misunderstanding of scriptures.

Click to expand...

The evidence of you adulterating the Word of God is in this post and
this post and this post

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...inning-of-creation.32841/page-44#post-1093748. You can convince yourself that all you want. If you glorify yourself by such. I guess you consider yourself as not have misused and misunderstood scriptures? Well,….

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Not if the one who says that knows that his choosing and accepting Him is the working of God in and on him.

Click to expand...

In effect, you are calling Jesus a deceiving spirit for:

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God)

Lord Jesus says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

The word of @Tong2020 is the opposite of the Word of God.

And so you think I am calling Jesus a deceiving Spirit. But Nope. My God will be my judge. For only God absolutely knows my heart. But you don’t because you are not God. Unless you think otherwise?

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Nope. For I was not referring to those portions of your post which are quotations from the Bible. God knows that. You apparently don’t.

Click to expand...

@Tong2020, the post has a plethora of scripture to which you referred to as "wells without water",

The post heads off with the citation of "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6).

This means that either you called Jesus' words of Christ being Life "wells without water" or you arrogantly called when I wrote your words are not life "wells without water".

And I have already told you and clarified that I was not referring to the scriptures quoted, as included in “wells without water”. But it seems no matter what clarification I tell you, is of no matter. You’d rather tell me what I meant in mu statements than me telling you what I meant. Perhaps you’ll be better alone talking to yourself. For evidently you seem to believe only you.

Tong
R4073

Kermos · Aug 20, 2021

Tong2020 said:
That’s what you think and say. However, if you think I am such a one, I am not. To the contrary, I am a Christian saved by the grace of God.

We Christians do not subtract from the Word of God Who says to all the children of God in all time "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Tong2020 said:
Misuse of scriptures. Issue on context.

To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
R4067

Jesus' disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

"'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the twelve who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Matthias and Joseph were also present when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so Jesus also spoke these glorious words to Matthias and Joseph.

Therefore, you made a false claim when you conveyed that Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" to the eleven apostles exclusively (Judas had already left the supper).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 21, 2021

Tong2020 said:
To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
R4067

The First Nature's Illegitimate Claim - Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

People who claim to be able to choose Jesus, despite those people being confronted by the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), with those people persisting in their claim of being able to choose Jesus thereafter, with those people claiming the Word of God applies only to the apostles, by extension those people claim to be superior to the apostles.

Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" And Jesus said to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 16:16-17). The Apostle Peter did not do it himself for he is flesh and blood. God did it to Peter. People who claim to be able to choose Jesus by extension claim to be superior to the apostles.

In your heart @Tong2020 you claim to have facility that exceeds the apostles.

Related post: more disciples present at supper

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 21, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Question 1) Did Adam know good and evil before Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

Click to expand...

Fantastic, your answer to question 1 is accurate according the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22).

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Question 2) Did Adam know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

No.

Click to expand...

Fantastic, your answer to question 2 is accurate according the Word of God "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22).

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Question 3) Did Adam, not knowing good and evil, willingly do evil in violating God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

Adam, willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in disobedience to God’s command not to eat of it.

<<<The Apostle Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly subject creation to futility by eating of the tree of the knowledge good and evil (Romans 8:20-22)>>>

False! Need a hint?

Click to expand...

Your answer to question 3 contradicts your answer to question 2.

Disobedience to God's command by man is evil.

In question 2 you acknowledge that Adam did not know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil.

Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.

In other words, in your heart you have Adam "willing" evil against God's command, yet Adam does not know evil.

You contradict yourself which is confusion, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

You call the Apostle Paul a liar because Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly subject creation to futility by eating of the tree of the knowledge good and evil (Romans 8:20-22).

<<<Your answer to question 3 contradicts your answer to question 2.>>>

Nope. You may want to read my answer again, but this time carefully and thoughtfully.

<<<In question 2 you acknowledge that Adam did not know that it was evil to violate God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil.>>>

Yup.

<<<Then in question 3 you claim Adam willingly performed the evil of disobedience against God's command - a thing that Adam's "will" could not "know" because Adam did nor know evil.>>>

Nope. What I said is “Adam, willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in disobedience to God’s command not to eat of it.”

Apparently you need for me to explain that for you. While Adam willingly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he did so without knowing what disobedience is evil, for he have no knowledge of good and evil. Got it?

<<<In other words, in your heart you have Adam "willing" evil against God's command, yet Adam does not know evil.

You contradict yourself which is confusion, yet "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).>>>

Please stop acting as though you know my heart.

<<<You call the Apostle Paul a liar because Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly subject creation to futility by eating of the tree of the knowledge good and evil (Romans 8:20-22).>>>

Nope. Now you seem to blame me foe your error. Don’t know your error here? As I said, need a hint?

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Question 4) What caused Adam to eat of the tree of the knowledge good and evil?>>>

Eve gave him the fruit to eat. And Adam heeded the voice of his wife.

Click to expand...

Fantastic, your answer to question 4 is accurate according the Word of God "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’" (Genesis 3:17).

The NASB, ESV, and NIV use "listened", and the NKJV uses "heeded".

No problem, if you prefer “listened”.

Tong
R4074

Tong2020 · Aug 21, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
Misuse of scriptures. Issue on context.

To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Click to expand...

Jesus' disciples specifically identified Matthias and Joseph as two men who "accompanied us all the time" - see that it is all the time they were with Jesus as described here:

"'Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us - one of these [must] become a witness with us of His resurrection.' So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias." (Acts 1:21-23)

In the upper room occupied by Jesus' disciples who put forward Matthias and Joseph were Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James (Acts 1:13), and these disciples recognized Matthias and Joseph as disciples that were with them from the beginning, and not a single disciple contradicted Peter's prounouncement of "men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us - beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us".

Thus, Matthias and Joseph are at least two more people beyond the twelve who are specifically identified at the supper covered in John chapters 13-17.

Matthias and Joseph were also present when Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, includes righteously obeying God) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), so Jesus also spoke these glorious words to Matthias and Joseph.

Therefore, you made a false claim when you conveyed that Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" to the eleven apostles exclusively (Judas had already left the supper).

Nope. Matthias nor Joseph were chosen by Jesus as He did the twelve, except Judas Iscariot.

Tong
R0475

Tong2020 · Aug 21, 2021

Kermos said:
Tong2020 said: ↑
To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Click to expand...

The First Nature's Illegitimate Claim - Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

People who claim to be able to choose Jesus, despite those people being confronted by the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), with those people persisting in their claim of being able to choose Jesus thereafter, with those people claiming the Word of God applies only to the apostles, by extension those people claim to be superior to the apostles.

Peter said to Jesus, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" And Jesus said to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal [this] to you, but My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 16:16-17). The Apostle Peter did not do it himself for he is flesh and blood. God did it to Peter. People who claim to be able to choose Jesus by extension claim to be superior to the apostles.

In your heart @Tong2020 you claim to have facility that exceeds the apostles.

Related post: more disciples present at supper

Nope. You do not know my heart, God knows. And I am not who you say or think I am.

Tong
R0476

Kermos · Aug 21, 2021

Tong2020 said:
To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
R4067

Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Relation To Exclusive Choice By Jesus (John 15:16)

Lord Jesus immediately adjacently joins being chosen by God as friends of Friend Jesus (John 15:15-16).

"I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) says Lord Jesus.

A friend of Jesus does not choose Jesus, but Jesus does choose the friend of Jesus (John 15:15-16), and a friend of Jesus does what Jesus commands (John 15:14) by the appointment of Jesus (John 15:16) thus being a friend of Jesus by the Christ's choosing (John 15:14-16).

FREE-WILLIANS DISAVOW CHRIST'S WORDS OF "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME" (JOHN 15:16) FOR THEMSELVES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DECLARING THE WORDS AS EXCLUSIVELY APPLICABLE TO THE APOSTLES; THEREFORE, FREE-WILLIANS DENY BEING A FRIEND OF JESUS WHICH JESUS COVERS IN THE SAME SAYINGS OF JESUS.

A friend of Jesus marvels at the glorious exclusive work of God's salvation of man; on the other hand, an enemy of Jesus steals the exclusive glory of man's salvation from God by saying things like "I chose Jesus" or "I accepted Jesus" resulting in the following implications to free will philosophy:

the enemy of Jesus rejects Jesus* Who says Who He is, and Jesus declares Himself Sovereign, the exclusive Controller, in man's salvation.
the enemy of Jesus does not receive the sayings of Jesus* for the enemy disavows Jesus' sayings about God's exclusive choosing of man (John 15:16, John 15:19).
the enemy of Jesus thinks the enemy compels God to provide salvation (i.e. God must obey man's command for salvation, and also without a man's affirming decision there is no salvation for the man).
the enemy of Jesus gets the glory, yet God does not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8).

* "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

In their hearts self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) effectively remove themselves from being friends of Jesus.

By the Power of God, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus bears good fruit/works because apart from Jesus a person can do nothing (John 15:5).

By the Power of God, by God's grace, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus is saved from the wrath of God for Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 21, 2021

Kermos said:
Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Relation To Exclusive Choice By Jesus (John 15:16)

Lord Jesus immediately adjacently joins being chosen by God as friends of Friend Jesus (John 15:15-16).

"I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16) says Lord Jesus.

A friend of Jesus does not choose Jesus, but Jesus does choose the friend of Jesus (John 15:15-16), and a friend of Jesus does what Jesus commands (John 15:14) by the appointment of Jesus (John 15:16) thus being a friend of Jesus by the Christ's choosing (John 15:14-16).

FREE-WILLIANS DISAVOW CHRIST'S WORDS OF "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME" (JOHN 15:16) FOR THEMSELVES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DECLARING THE WORDS AS EXCLUSIVELY APPLICABLE TO THE APOSTLES; THEREFORE, FREE-WILLIANS DENY BEING A FRIEND OF JESUS WHICH JESUS COVERS IN THE SAME SAYINGS OF JESUS.

A friend of Jesus marvels at the glorious exclusive work of God's salvation of man; on the other hand, an enemy of Jesus steals the exclusive glory of man's salvation from God by saying things like "I chose Jesus" or "I accepted Jesus" resulting in the following implications to free will philosophy:

the enemy of Jesus rejects Jesus* Who says Who He is, and Jesus declares Himself Sovereign, the exclusive Controller, in man's salvation.

the enemy of Jesus does not receive the sayings of Jesus* for the enemy disavows Jesus' sayings about God's exclusive choosing of man (John 15:16, John 15:19).

the enemy of Jesus thinks the enemy compels God to provide salvation (i.e. God must obey man's command for salvation, and also without a man's affirming decision there is no salvation for the man).

the enemy of Jesus gets the glory, yet God does not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8).

* "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48)

In their hearts self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) effectively remove themselves from being friends of Jesus.

By the Power of God, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus bears good fruit/works because apart from Jesus a person can do nothing (John 15:5).

By the Power of God, by God's grace, for God's glory (Isaiah 42:8), the friend of Jesus is saved from the wrath of God for Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), says "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19).

Salvation is of God, and by God, and by grace.

Concerning this salvation, that is, salvation unto eternal,

Jesus said “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

Concerning coming to Jesus, Jesus said “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

And Jesus said of those who come to Him, “He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

And Jesus said “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

Tong
R4077

Ronald Nolette · Aug 22, 2021

Kermos said:
RESPONSE PART 1) No scripture states that Adam was imparted free will by God; therefore, no person subsequent to Adam has an autonomous will. When one of God's creatures claims that Adam a free will, then such a one adds to the Word of God, and adding to the Word of God is the creature calling God a liar.

RESPONSE PART 2) God is very clear about the cause as this post in this thread shows, God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20).

RESPONSE PART 3) Adam was flesh (Genesis 2:21), so Adam could not free will choose God, and Paul wrote "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).

These response parts are not separate entities, but they need to be taken in aggregate as responsive to your inquiry.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Sorry for the delay, I was in the hospital for 8 days having heart surgery.

Bottom line is this according to you- because you do not believe Adam had free will, when given the apple he was compelled to eat it. He had no choice but to eat it because , according to you He had no ability to refuse to eat it. that is what free will is about you know. the ability to choose or not to choose to sin. so you believe Adam had no capacity to resist the temptation to sin. Unless of course you have definition of free will that runs contrary to what nearly everyone believes.

Kermos · Aug 23, 2021

Tong2020 said:
You can think all that as you will. But what is said in Joshua 24:31 is what it says.

Then it sounds like you are calling Joshua a false prophet because Joshua declared to the people in response "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins..." (Joshua 24:19).

JOSHUA JUST TOLD THEM THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE GOD.

Joshua 24:31 does not show that the people chose God with God's blessing.

The truth is there is no free will in the passage.

Tong2020 said:
I was quoting Romans 5:12-19 to show you that which seem not able to see, that those scriptures say with regards what Adam had done concerning the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

1. it is an offense to God
2. it is disobedience to God
3. it is a transgression
4. it is a sin

And you have not refuted what I am saying there. You only, with seeming endless repetition, say what you are not able to see, that is, “Nothing in Romans 5:12-19 indicates that Adam had a free will.”

I do not know where you got the impression that I would be refuting Romans 5:12-19.

Nothing in Romans 5:12-19 indicates that Adam had a free will.

Tong2020 said:
For one, that’s not a my philosophy. That’s what scriptures teaches, perhaps not to you, but to me.

The will of God for Adam is expressed in Gen.2:16-17. Adam’s disobedient act pf eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is a clear expression of not doing that will of God in that regard.

Eve’s giving the fruit to her husband l Adam, to eat, is a clear expression of the woman’s will for Adam to do. Adam’s heeding the voice of his wife Eve, who gave him the forbidden fruit, to eat, and in eating the fruit, is a clear expression of doing the will of the woman instead of God’s will in that regard. (Gen.3:6).

In your heart you change the Genesis 3:6 to be "she willingly gave also to her husband with her".

That is evil for truly it is written "she gave also to her husband with her" Genesis 3:6.

In your heart you subtract Paul's conveyance that "Eve gave not willingly to her husband with her to subject creation to futility" (Romans 8:20-22).

You compounded evil on evil.

God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as well as God prophesied that Adam would eat the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - all recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

There is no mention of "will" recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

In your heart you compounded evil on evil on evil.

Tong2020 said:
That’s your opinion. If you don’t see any indication, that’s with you.

You are adding free will into scripture where it does not exist.

Tong2020 said:
Nothing new that you post.

Haven’t you yet realize what the scriptures in Gen.3:16-19 are, with regards what Eve and Adam had done?

Tong
R4068

The Spirit of the Living God has revealed to me the meaning recorded in Genesis 3:16-19.

You have been shown in this very post to add to scripture in your heart

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" subjected creation to futility by eating of the tree forbiddenl for eating since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 23, 2021

Tong2020 said:
To whom did Jesus say “you did not choose Me, but I chose you"? He said them to the 12 disciples, though not for Judas Iscariot. (John 13)

Tong
R4067

The Audience Identified For Lord Jesus Christ's Words About Choosing

Lord Jesus says to Peter, James, John, and Andrew "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37).

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time.

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

"YHWH is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works" (Psalm 145:17)

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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