What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

[Phil .]

If it was still here sure! but God removed it so we can't so the point is irrelevant.

So you’re saying there used to be a tree of the knowledge of good & evil… and people ate… what from it exactly?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I doubt they ate something…….I said I doubt. I did not say anything about extra biblical evidence that I have.

Is there a reason why it can’t just be a literal piece of fruit that symbolized God’s right to reserve something for himself when he had given the humans so much already? Could it not just be a simple test of their respect for something he claimed as his own property, when he had given them such beautiful surroundings? The test was not difficult, but the penalty should have alerted them as to its significance.

To steal from one’s Sovereign, no matter how small the theft, always carried the death penalty in most monarchies. It was seen as gross disrespect for the King and deserving of death.

They had no right to take that fruit because it was not in their best interests to determine for themselves what was good or evil….God placed that in his own jurisdiction. They undermined his sovereign right to dictate the rules governing the life he had given them.

What do we see as a result? Humans do not know how to tell good from evil, because the devil has switched their meaning….he replaced light with darkness…and good with evil. What becomes “the norm” is what people learn from the way they live, and what they are taught. They absorb such things from their daily environment.….like the people in Noah’s day….not a soul among them survived, except the one who kept track of what was good and evil in God’s eyes.

 

[MA2444]

What was wrong with Adam and Eve knowing good and evil?

You mean you havent figured it out yet? I *think* that I will trust in the Lord next time and take His word for it!

"I" didn't fall in the Garden of Eden. But I am descended from Adam who did fall. So I was born with the sin nature. Not my fault. So why did I have to be born here into sin? I've been here awhile now (61 years) and I have gotten to know more evil than good. We are promised that, the good is coming.

But why me? Was I alive in Heaven before being born here and ask God, what is Good? What is evil? What does that mean? (Apparently, He said, I'll show you!)
So like I said, next time I wont question, I will trust Him!

What's wrong with knowing evil is worse than I ever could have imagined. I wish I never knew evil at all. Can you not see that? Oh I hate my life on this planet. But! I have a lot to look forward to.

 

[MA2444]

So you’re saying there used to be a tree of the knowledge of good & evil… and people ate… what from it exactly?

I've always been told it was an Apple, but that dont make sense, apples are good. I heard that someone supposedly had a revelation that the fruit was actually more like grapes. But who knows.

Maybe Genesis 3 gives us a hint at the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

Genesis 3:6-7
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons..../KJV

The ate it, and the first thing that happened was their eyes were open and they seen that they were naked...so sewed "FigLeaves" together to make aprons. Well how about that? A Fig Tree was very handy to them at that moment! Maybe it was Figs!
I like fig newtons.

 

[Phil .]

I've always been told it was an Apple, but that dont make sense, apples are good. I heard that someone supposedly had a revelation that the fruit was actually more like grapes. But who knows.

Check what the Bible says.
It says, the tree of… the knowledge… of good & evil.
Not apples, grapes, or any edible food.

Maybe Genesis 3 gives us a hint at the fruit of the tree of knowledge?

Genesis 3:6-7
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The desire to be wise by knowing good & evil doesn’t pan out.
It’s actually what suffering is.
The separate self of thoughts, “the knower”.
This is how you veil yourself of the reality heaven / the heaven of reality.
That’s why God said don’t “eat” it.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons..../KJV

The ate it, and the first thing that happened was their eyes were open and they seen that they were naked...so sewed "FigLeaves" together to make aprons. Well how about that? A Fig Tree was very handy to them at that moment! Maybe it was Figs!
I like fig newtons.

Yes, shame is part & parcel with playing “the knower”.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Phil…there is no point in further discussion……your posts are completely devoid of scripture and instead your opinion or viewpoint is substituted…..I’m not buying whatever it is that you are selling.

None of what you say has anything to back it up. Is there some compelling reason why I should believe someone whose words have absolutely no meaning to me?

I can’t ask you questions because what you say does not invite them….all it invites is confusion, trying to process what you are saying. I do not speak your language……

Go in peace..I know you mean well, but it’s is utter gibberish to me…..sorry.

 

[Peterlag]

Is there a reason why it can’t just be a literal piece of fruit that symbolized God’s right to reserve something for himself when he had given the humans so much already? Could it not just be a simple test of their respect for something he claimed as his own property, when he had given them such beautiful surroundings? The test was not difficult, but the penalty should have alerted them as to its significance.

To steal from one’s Sovereign, no matter how small the theft, always carried the death penalty in most monarchies. It was seen as gross disrespect for the King and deserving of death.

They had no right to take that fruit because it was not in their best interests to determine for themselves what was good or evil….God placed that in his own jurisdiction. They undermined his sovereign right to dictate the rules governing the life he had given them.

What do we see as a result? Humans do not know how to tell good from evil, because the devil has switched their meaning….he replaced light with darkness…and good with evil. What becomes “the norm” is what people learn from the way they live, and what they are taught. They absorb such things from their daily environment.….like the people in Noah’s day….not a soul among them survived, except the one who kept track of what was good and evil in God’s eyes.

My Bible teachers taught me in my first Bible class that if the Bible does not tell us. Then we do not know. So now we can begin guessing all we want, but we will still not know because the Bible does not tell us. So that's all I'm doing here... guessing that the devil got Eve to walk and live by her senses. Working off her emotions it would have been easy to tell a woman to try it and then you too will know everything. It's my best guess. When they did it they seemed to have lost the spirit of God that Christ got back for us. God was not in a punishing mood when He told them if they do this they will die. It was a warning.

 

[Phil .]

@Phil…there is no point in further discussion……your posts are completely devoid of scripture and instead you opinion or viewpoint is substituted…..I’m not buying whatever it is that you are selling.

None of what you say has anything to back it up. Is there some compelling reason why I should believe someone whose words have absolutely no meaning to me?

What I’m saying is in accord with the Bible, common sense and your own direct experience. It’s somewhat silly implying I’m asking you to believe anything.

I can’t ask you questions because what you say does not invite them….all it invites is confusion, trying to process what you are saying. I do not speak your language……

Go in peace..I know you mean well, but it’s is utter gibberish to me…..sorry.

It’s English. No worries! Nothing’s happening. It truly doesn’t matter. Much love.

 

[Aunty Jane]

My Bible teachers taught me in my first Bible class that if the Bible does not tell us. Then we do not know.

But it does tell us....so what is the problem?

Gen 3:1-6...
“Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”

6 Consequently, the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something desirable to the eyes, yes, the tree was pleasing to look at. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward, she also gave some to her husband when he was with her, and he began eating it.”

It was clearly a fruit tree that God had reserved as his own, among the many he had given to the humans for food. It was with another tree that was life giving....but this tree’s fruit was death dealing. They had free access to the tree of life, until they ate from the wrong tree....then access was denied. (Gen 3:22-24)

So now we can begin guessing all we want, but we will still not know because the Bible does not tell us.

What it does not tell us is the kind of fruit that this tree bore.....the fact that it was a fruit tree is obvious.

So that's all I'm doing here... guessing that the devil got Eve to walk and live by her senses. Working off her emotions it would have been easy to tell a woman to try it and then you too will know everything. It's my best guess.

Yes, that is exactly what the devil did....but he cannot force us to do anything against our will.....all he can do is set us up for failure by tempting us to do what God says not to.
It was their disobedience that caused the problem, not the tree itself. It was God’s property and they had no right to touch it.

When they did it they seemed to have lost the spirit of God that Christ got back for us. God was not in a punishing mood when He told them if they do this they will die. It was a warning.

What they lost was the perfection of mind and body with which they were created. “Sin” in the original language is an archery term meaning “to miss the mark”.....that is what sin is...falling short of perfection and losing the ability to make wise decisions......also it meant degenerating into old age, sickness and death. No winners there.

There was no “natural” cause of death in Eden...the prospect of living forever on earth was set before them, and all they had to do to live that wonderful life, was to obey (and continue to obey) one simple rule that caused them no hardship at all.

The devil made it appear to be an unfair restriction, but really it was for their benefit.....look where their disobedience got us! (Rom 5:12) We lost God’s rulership over us and the devil got to have his way.....what better way to illustrate that the devil is a woeful liar than to allow him to prove his case. (Luke 4:6-7) How pathetic has independent rulership been for the human race? Man’s inhumanity to his fellow man is what the devil brought us. Man’s rulership has utterly failed because of who they chose as their ruler. (1 John 5:19)

We have a lot to get back, and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ ensures that what God began at the start, will be fulfilled at the end. (Isa 55:11)

A perfected race of humans will yet call this earth paradise and live forever enjoying God’s creation. He has guaranteed it. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[Peterlag]

But it does tell us....so what is the problem?

Gen 3:1-6...
“Now the serpent was the most cautious of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. 3 But God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”

6 Consequently, the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something desirable to the eyes, yes, the tree was pleasing to look at. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward, she also gave some to her husband when he was with her, and he began eating it.”

It was clearly a fruit tree that God had reserved as his own, among the many he had given to the humans for food. It was with another tree that was life giving....but this tree’s fruit was death dealing. They had free access to the tree of life, until they ate from the wrong tree....then access was denied. (Gen 3:22-24)

What it does not tell us is the kind of fruit that this tree bore.....the fact that it was a fruit tree is obvious.

Yes, that is exactly what the devil did....but he cannot force us to do anything against our will.....all he can do is set us up for failure by tempting us to do what God says not to.
It was their disobedience that caused the problem, not the tree itself. It was God’s property and they had no right to touch it.

What they lost was the perfection of mind and body with which they were created. “Sin” in the original language is an archery term meaning “to miss the mark”.....that is what sin is...falling short of perfection and losing the ability to make wise decisions......also it meant degenerating into old age, sickness and death. No winners there.

There was no “natural” cause of death in Eden...the prospect of living forever on earth was set before them, and all they had to do to live that wonderful life, was to obey (and continue to obey) one simple rule that caused them no hardship at all.

The devil made it appear to be an unfair restriction, but really it was for their benefit.....look where their disobedience got us! (Rom 5:12) We lost God’s rulership over us and the devil got to have his way.....what better way to illustrate that the devil is a woeful liar than to allow him to prove his case. (Luke 4:6-7) How pathetic has independent rulership been for the human race? Man’s inhumanity to his fellow man is what the devil brought us. Man’s rulership has utterly failed because of who they chose as their ruler. (1 John 5:19)

We have a lot to get back, and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ ensures that what God began at the start, will be fulfilled at the end. (Isa 55:11)

A perfected race of humans will yet call this earth paradise and live forever enjoying God’s creation. He has guaranteed it. (Rev 21:2-4)

The Bible only mentions this once and the book is filled with many different kinds of figures of speech that's the problem. Even today in our culture we use figures like that and nobody gives it a second thought because we all understand our culture. I might say what you are asking me is something that's hard to swallow. That often does not mean we are eating something. Even Clint Eastwood in the movie called Dirty Harry tells a guy if he keeps it up he's going to eat a bullet. They talk and write in the same way using figures of speech in the Bible all of the time. There's a guy yesterday on here telling me Jesus is God because there's a verse that says Jesus came down from heaven. These are figures that were part of their culture. If something was from God they would say it came down from heaven. Again, even today we speak the same way.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The Bible only mentions this once and the book is filled with many different kinds of figures of speech that's the problem. Even today in our culture we use figures like that and nobody gives it a second thought because we all understand our culture. I might say what you are asking me is something that's hard to swallow. That often does not mean we are eating something. Even Clint Eastwood in the movie called Dirty Harry tells a guy if he keeps it up he's going to eat a bullet. They talk and write in the same way using figures of speech in the Bible all of the time. There's a guy yesterday on here telling me Jesus is God because there's a verse that says Jesus came down from heaven. These are figures that were part of their culture. If something was from God they would say it came down from heaven. Again, even today we speak the same way.

It's part of the creation account, so no 'figures of speech' were required to tell how God created the material universe in relatively simple language, to the people to whom it was written....he used terminology that they could relate to. It wasn't rocket science....just plain statements, in the order in which it took place.

If there were 'figures of speech' there would be some indication that it wasn't literal, but the plain terminology stands alone. It was fruit just like all the other fruit trees.....but it symbolized something much deeper. Their rebellion was not just over a piece of fruit....they were stealing from their Sovereign, what was not theirs for the taking. They unleashed something that God did not want them to have....the knowledge of good and evil was a contrast......opposites.....as we see in all creation....equal opposites. This was one equal opposite that would bring harm and ruin if it was released....God knew this, which is why he had such a heavy penalty attached to it.
Contrast the infinite goodness of God with the infinite evil proposed by the devil under the guise of something beneficial. The fallout is something we still grapple with to this day.

So my original question was...."Is there a reason why it can’t just be a literal piece of fruit that symbolized God’s right to reserve something for himself when he had given the humans so much already? Could it not just be a simple test of their respect for something he claimed as his own property, when he had given them such beautiful surroundings? The test was not difficult, but the penalty should have alerted them as to its significance."

What if it was just a piece of fruit with a very deep meaning....? Not a figure of speech, but a simple way for the humans to demonstrate their respect for Jehovah's authority as their Sovereign Ruler. Obedience is all he has ever asked of his intelligent creation.

 

[Peterlag]

It's part of the creation account, so no 'figures of speech' were required to tell how God created the material universe in relatively simple language, to the people to whom it was written....he used terminology that they could relate to. It wasn't rocket science....just plain statements, in the order in which it took place.

If there were 'figures of speech' there would be some indication that it wasn't literal, but the plain terminology stands alone. It was fruit just like all the other fruit trees.....but it symbolized something much deeper. Their rebellion was not just over a piece of fruit....they were stealing from their Sovereign, what was not theirs for the taking. They unleashed something that God did not want them to have....the knowledge of good and evil was a contrast......opposites.....as we see in all creation....equal opposites. This was one equal opposite that would bring harm and ruin if it was released....God knew this, which is why he had such a heavy penalty attached to it.
Contrast the infinite goodness of God with the infinite evil proposed by the devil under the guise of something beneficial. The fallout is something we still grapple with to this day.

So my original question was...."Is there a reason why it can’t just be a literal piece of fruit that symbolized God’s right to reserve something for himself when he had given the humans so much already? Could it not just be a simple test of their respect for something he claimed as his own property, when he had given them such beautiful surroundings? The test was not difficult, but the penalty should have alerted them as to its significance."

What if it was just a piece of fruit with a very deep meaning....? Not a figure of speech, but a simple way for the humans to demonstrate their respect for Jehovah's authority as their Sovereign Ruler. Obedience is all he has ever asked of his intelligent creation.

You would get the knowledge of good and evil if you stopped walking by the spirit and started walking by your senses. There's a bunch of people on here and I mean a whole lot that cannot come to grips with the concept that I walk by the spirit and therefore have no lust. It's outside of their understanding because just about everyone on here walks by their flesh and believe they are sinners and have lust. I can understand how one can go from walking by the spirit and not knowing lust or evil and then give that up to walk by the senses. I cannot understand how one could get in this situation by eating an apple. Now what Christ got back for us was the spirit. He did not bring us more grapes.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You would get the knowledge of good and evil if you stopped walking by the spirit and started walking by your senses.

Is this what the Bible says though? Where does it mention that they "stopped walking by the spirit"...to 'walk by their senses'?
They were created without defect "in God's image and likeness", so the devil's temptation would not have gotten off the ground if they had just obeyed one simple command, which imposed no hardship on them at all.

The devil saw an opportunity to indulge his own fantasy...to be worshipped by the humans that God had just given life to. They were no match for the wily serpent, but they could have said no!....just being obedient....and that would have ended his fantasy right there and then.

I cannot understand how one could get in this situation by eating an apple.

It wasn't an apple....we are not told what kind of fruit it was, but it wasn't like the other fruit trees in the garden...they already had free access to all of them, except this one, which represented "the knowledge of good and evil".....or the right to decide what was good and what wasn't for themselves. The devil got the woman to look at the fruit and it appeared to be something delicious. All sin starts with the eyes.....if the devil can direct your gaze towards a temptation, he pretty much has you.

Now what Christ got back for us was the spirit. He did not bring us more grapes.

Where does the Bible say that? What Jesus got back for us was life...the everlasting kind...the one we lost due to the devil's manipulation of the first humans. There was no natural cause of death stated to Adam.....eating the fruit that belonged to God was the only cause of death.

Adam was responsible for the death of the entire human race, (Rom 5:12) Jesus redeemed the human race, if they wish to take advantage of his willing and generous gift. It is conditional because God had rules that he stated when he created them.....life itself was conditional on their obedience to all of God's commands. What use are people who cannot do as they are told? Isn't Israel's history a good example of what not to do? How often did God have to punish them to bring them in line? Once his purpose was fulfilled in connection with them, (bringing his son into the world) he cast them off. (Matt 23:3-39)

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● Gen 2:25 . . They were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not
ashamed.

● Gen 3:6-7 . .When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and
that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband
with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they
knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made
themselves aprons.

● Rev 3:18 . . I counsel you to buy from me . . . white garments, that you
may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed

Is it possible the dead will have to face justice at the great white throne event
disrobed?
_

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not sure I’d casually dismiss the single most significant point of the Bible.
It’s right there in the beginning with very good reason.
If that’s misinterpreted, so is everything which follows.

There’s no lack of common sense. It’s a given. Whether common sense is obscured by beliefs is the differentiator.

Not ‘in the emotions’… is an emotion.

Well the tree is no longer on earth so it is an irrelavent point.

Doubt is an intellectual decision that calls into question a certain set of facts or truths. It is displayed in emotions.

Doubt is not considered an emotion
Doubt is a mental state in which the mind remains suspended between two or more contradictory propositions, and is uncertain about them1. Doubt can refer to the cognitive process, as well as the negative emotion it sometimes involves2. Doubt is not considered an emotion, but it can be accompanied by negative emotions such as fear and lack of confidence13.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course I have some reason to think it was spirit they gave back. God told them they would die if they did it. Giving spirit back would have done that. Eating an apple would not have done that. Jesus got the spirit back for us.

They did not give their human spirit back- it died! and if you wish to believe it is an apple- that is fine. but they atre something in disobedience to God. that is what the bible says. As for you opinion? If it doesn't align with Scripture, you should take it out with the trash forthwith!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you’re saying there used to be a tree of the knowledge of good & evil… and people ate… what from it exactly?

They ate a piece of fruit from it! what kind- don't know and don't care! But they ate in disobedience! It is right there in gods INspired word!

 

[Behold]

Satan in the Hebrew Scriptures is an "adversary"...so what is the meaning of this word?

"Against God" "against Good". 'against Truth"

He's that one.

What is his game plane?

To corrupt and subvert and deceive., and these are all connected.

Reader, what was the first thing that Satan took from you, that you can't have back?

He took your innocence and corrupted it into SIN.

 

[Phil .]

Well the tree is no longer on earth so it is an irrelavent point.

What would a tree of the knowledge of good & evil even look like?

(It’s a metaphor for “knowing” there is good & evil, which isn’t knowing - it’s ignorance. Assumption. Denial.)

Doubt is an intellectual decision that calls into question a certain set of facts or truths. It is displayed in emotions.

Decision is also an assumption. Decision has never actually been experienced.

Not surprisingly, Truth is related to honesty.

Doubt is not considered an emotion
Doubt is a mental state in which the mind remains suspended between two or more contradictory propositions, and is uncertain about them1. Doubt can refer to the cognitive process, as well as the negative emotion it sometimes involves2. Doubt is not considered an emotion, but it can be accompanied by negative emotions such as fear and lack of confidence13.

Doubt is felt, as doubt’s an emotion.

No one else feels or lives with your emotional suppression.
Liberate yourself.
Explore & inspect direct experience.

I love you!

 

[Phil .]

They ate a piece of fruit from it! what kind- don't know and don't care! But they ate in disobedience! It is right there in gods INspired word!

“You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

It doesn’t say “a piece of fruit”.

So… it’s not “right there in God’s inspired word”.

It’s a misinterpretation.