Is that right? Then what do you say of what God said of mankind’s heart in Gen.8:21, where He said that the intents or the imaginations or the thoughts of his heart is evil from his youth?
Tong
R4162
Do Christians have a desperately wicked heart?
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Tong
R4162
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
our natural heart in its fallen state is wicked but God gives us a new heart when we are born again, a new mind through His Spirit that now lives in us. We renew our minds daily as Paul tells us below and we are transformed into His likeness.
Romans 12:1-2
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Ephesians 4:23
to be renewed in the spirit of your minds;
Ephesians 4:24
and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Colossians 3:1-4
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Its all a battle in our minds. Sin is conceived in the mind first before it is carried out and acted upon. Its why memorizing Scripture and hiding Gods word in our hearts is so important. David said thy word have I hidden in my heart that I might not sin against you.
James 1:13-15
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
If a person chooses to have bad intentions, then that is his course. If he chooses to have good intentions, then that is his course.
@marks @Tong2020 and @Christophany
I love love love the posts full of Scriptures! Nicely done!
Yes, our hearts are made new when we accept Christ. I see that clearly now.
I love love love the posts full of Scriptures! Nicely done!
Yes, our hearts are made new when we accept Christ. I see that clearly now.
@Wynona An outworking of John chapter 3 and the New Birth, right?
*searches John 3*
Yes! For some reason I was having an issue thinking of myself as having a regenerated heart because of struggles Ive had with the past.
Im not sure why I didn't see it before--- that just because your flesh gives you issues, doesn't mean your heart is not regenerated or still desperately wicked.
I don’t see that as answering my question, “what do you say of what God said of mankind’s heart in Gen.8:21, where He said that the intents or the imaginations or the thoughts of his heart is evil from his youth?”
Your opinion there ignores the truth of what God said concerning fallen mankind in Gen. 8:21.
Tong
R4164
<<<For some reason I was having an issue thinking of myself as having a regenerated heart because of struggles Ive had with the past.>>>
I think many mature Christians have in their past gone that road as well.
<<<Im not sure why I didn't see it before--- that just because your flesh gives you issues, doesn't mean your heart is not regenerated or still desperately wicked.>>>
The reason, I think, is a matter of knowing and understanding the truth in scriptures.
Having or not having knowledge and understanding of that truth does not have anything to do with one’s salvation, him who had truly been created anew. Having knowledge and understanding of truth about God and his works such as concerning the new heart however, gives the child of God such peace, joy, and happiness, that the world could not give.
As scriptures says, the truth sets free.
To God be thanks and the glory!
Tong
R4165
It is the unregenerate person who has such a heart. Those who have been born again have received a new heart and a new spirit, and have been made "new creatures in Christ" by the grace of God. These are genuine Christians.
At the same time, the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature) has not been eradicated. But the Bible says "Sin shall NOT have dominion over you" since you are "dead to sin and alive to God". Therefore believers are commanded to walk in the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
He is talking about the people who were alive then. He wasn't talking about the people who would come later.
No sir. He was talking about fallen mankind in general. Please go read Gen. 8. That was after the flood, after all of mankind were destroyed, saved 8 persons, Noah and family.
Tong
R4167
Because I went to a five-day seminar where the Holy Spirit, together with the teachers, showed me in scripture that not only is the heart wicked, but how to deal with it, along with curses and demons.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
That is man on his natural state unregenerate. Paul says the same thing in Romans 1
Are they talking about the heart of one who was created anew by God or that of one who was not?
Can you cite the scriptures that you say there?
Tong
R4169
The soul (mind, will, and emotions), together with the spirit, make up the heart, the whole of the inner man.
When I was born again, my spirit was reborn. The renewal of my soul has been a process.
2 Corinthians 5
1 Thessalonians 5:3
Hebrews 4:12
The ministry I went through used The Divine Plumbline seminar and Release From The Curse and Basics Of Deliverance videos by Derek Prince.
When I was born again, my spirit was reborn. The renewal of my soul has been a process.
2 Corinthians 5
1 Thessalonians 5:3
Hebrews 4:12
The ministry I went through used The Divine Plumbline seminar and Release From The Curse and Basics Of Deliverance videos by Derek Prince.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
For those born again, those created anew by God in Christ Jesus, the heart is not the problem. For God have given them a new heart. One that is unlike the old heart. One that has nothing to do with evil stuffs. The problem is with the corrupted flesh that we still are in, where sin dwells. For it is yet to be replaced with an incorruptible one, at an appointed time. Until then, this new heart is in a constant fight against it, which Paul calls “body of death”.
Tong
R4173
In my understanding, the soul is the carnal nature, or, in some translations, the flesh. This is a poor translation as the physical body is not capable of lusts, just physical sensations through which lusts are fulfilled. Much confusion has been caused by this and at this point, you would need to look into things to see if what I am saying is valid or not; otherwise, we'll just debate and spin our wheels forever. And who know, maybe create yet another denomination.
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