Things are getting scary in England
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Thank you Aspen, I learn something every day. Yes, I believe it. Though it's not a bible promise as is the land of Israel, it could still be the founders had divine guidance. In such a case it would be God's will. The setting was that of a great Christian revival. George Whitfield was preaching there, and the founding fathers were ALL Christian. I can prove that with their Quotes. The nation did well, sent missionaries to the uttermost parts of the Earth, and supported Israel until recently. What is happening now is the falling away of 2 Thessalonians 2 which precedes the second coming.
The reason for the falling away of the last 60 years: TV
The time period after World War-II is considered the last and final birth of television. Families had accumulated savings during the war years, and were eager to purchase homes, cars and other luxuries denied them during the war. Television sets were soon added to the 'must have' list. The explosion of sets into the American marketplace occurred in 1948-1949.
The TV is a fulfillment of bible prophecy.
The TV is an Image that teaches lies. Habakkuk 2:18
He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast Revelation 13:14
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak Revelation 13:15
The time period after World War-II is considered the last and final birth of television. Families had accumulated savings during the war years, and were eager to purchase homes, cars and other luxuries denied them during the war. Television sets were soon added to the 'must have' list. The explosion of sets into the American marketplace occurred in 1948-1949.
The TV is a fulfillment of bible prophecy.
The TV is an Image that teaches lies. Habakkuk 2:18
He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast Revelation 13:14
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak Revelation 13:15
St. Ann Seton
She had several visions of the future in which "Every American family would have a black box in the corner of the room by means of which Satan would enter their homes". That was in the early 1800s. She described a scene in which she saw inert people gathered passively in front of this 'black box'. It emitted a lurid, blue light which held them transfixed for hours-on-end, just staring at it. She could not explain what it was, other than to say that it showed a scene from the 20th century. She insisted that the devil crawled out from this strange "black box" and came into the very room in which families would sit inertly watching the lurid blue light. As a young, well-connected lady of high-society, married to her ambassador husband, she once danced with George Washington at a ball in New York! … She is the first canonized US saint. She opened the first Catholic school in the US. This was at Emmetsburg, Maryland, St. Ann Seton's basilica, which holds her body, is in Emmetsburg.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury gives an eerily similar prediction of our lives today. Depression, seashells in the ears that play music to distract the masses and even a televised car chase, just like OJ.
A Brave New World is more accurate than 1986.
A Brave New World is more accurate than 1986.
What do you think about the vision given to Ann Seton..It was a couple hundred years ago. How could she know except by divine revelation? The TV is an image which speaks!
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
WhiteKnuckle
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Yes it does. However, just because God may have given America to the settlers, doesn't mean they did it right. As I understand there was a time in the beginning when the Indians were willing to live in harmony and share.
I honestly believe that God set's up all the governments and all the countries.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I see what you are saying, God may have given the settlers the land and the settlers could have taken ownership in the wrong way.
I guess I have a hard time believing that oppressive governments are part of God's plan. I do not believe He relies on evil to teach good.
I think God certainly does not support oppressing anything, as oppression is all the work of the Devils.
Here's how I see it. God gave us this country and we did pretty well, (much better than most) for quite a while. But just because God gives you something doesn't guarantee you will be faithful. This quote of Benjamin Franklin shows us what went wrong.
"In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?". We forgot about God.
Or this, - of James Madison
"We've staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future ...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded. We forgot about God's law.
".
"In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?". We forgot about God.
Or this, - of James Madison
"We've staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future ...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded. We forgot about God's law.
".
WhiteKnuckle
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It's funny you mention these two specifically.
Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian, he was a Deist. However, he atleast did believe in the power of prayer and acknowledged a "higher power". But, I wonder which is better,,, To believe in the wrong thing or believe in nothing.
James Madison, now this is an Ironic quote for the conversation. James Madison was one of the biggest (if no THE) supporter of freedom of ALL religions. Through the campaigns of James Madison the Angelican church lost it's strangle hold on the states. He fought for the freedoms of Christians and non Christians alike.
Great quotes though.
It's funny you mention these two specifically.
Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian, he was a Deist. However, he atleast did believe in the power of prayer and acknowledged a "higher power". But, I wonder which is better,,, To believe in the wrong thing or believe in nothing.
James Madison, now this is an Ironic quote for the conversation. James Madison was one of the biggest (if no THE) supporter of freedom of ALL religions. Through the campaigns of James Madison the Angelican church lost it's strangle hold on the states. He fought for the freedoms of Christians and non Christians alike.
Great quotes though.
There's no way Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian. That's probable another revisionist lie like the one about Jefferson not being a Christian.
Student have been taught revisionist history by the anti-Christ progressives. What you said about Benjamin Franklin was one of their lies. It's really amazing, but as far as I can tell they were ALL Christian.
"The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it." - John Marshal Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
"I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect. They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself."
- William Penn
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
- Benjamin Franklin
"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others."
- Thomas Jefferson
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
- George Washington
I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
- Alexander Hamilton
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
John Quincy Adams
You said, "James Madison, now this is an Ironic quote for the conversation. James Madison was one of the biggest (if no THE) supporter of freedom of ALL religions. Through the campaigns of James Madison the Angelican church lost it's strangle hold on the states. He fought for the freedoms of Christians and non Christians alike.".
Now brother, so do I. Shouldn't we give people the right to worship as they please, even if they are not Christian? The founding fathers were for "Freedom of Religion".
Further, you said, "Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian, he was a Deist." Well sir, I am a Christian AND a deist as I assume Benjamen Franklin was. A deist only means I can know there is a creator God simply by observing the creation with a rational mind. I't doesn't of necessity mean anything else. You will notice in the Wikipedia definition after the above definition it qualifies everything else said by the phrase "often implies" or "typically". Those are qualifiers. They mean that every deist doesn't necessarily adhere to the following. If Benjamin were the type of deist that doesn't believe in God intervening in our lives, they why did he admonish his peers to pray more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist
"The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it." - John Marshal Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
"I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect. They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself."
- William Penn
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
- Benjamin Franklin
"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others."
- Thomas Jefferson
"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
- George Washington
I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
- Alexander Hamilton
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
John Quincy Adams
You said, "James Madison, now this is an Ironic quote for the conversation. James Madison was one of the biggest (if no THE) supporter of freedom of ALL religions. Through the campaigns of James Madison the Angelican church lost it's strangle hold on the states. He fought for the freedoms of Christians and non Christians alike.".
Now brother, so do I. Shouldn't we give people the right to worship as they please, even if they are not Christian? The founding fathers were for "Freedom of Religion".
Further, you said, "Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian, he was a Deist." Well sir, I am a Christian AND a deist as I assume Benjamen Franklin was. A deist only means I can know there is a creator God simply by observing the creation with a rational mind. I't doesn't of necessity mean anything else. You will notice in the Wikipedia definition after the above definition it qualifies everything else said by the phrase "often implies" or "typically". Those are qualifiers. They mean that every deist doesn't necessarily adhere to the following. If Benjamin were the type of deist that doesn't believe in God intervening in our lives, they why did he admonish his peers to pray more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
It's funny you mention these two specifically.
Benjamen Franklin was not a Christian, he was a Deist. However, he atleast did believe in the power of prayer and acknowledged a "higher power". But, I wonder which is better,,, To believe in the wrong thing or believe in nothing.
James Madison, now this is an Ironic quote for the conversation. James Madison was one of the biggest (if no THE) supporter of freedom of ALL religions. Through the campaigns of James Madison the Angelican church lost it's strangle hold on the states. He fought for the freedoms of Christians and non Christians alike.
Great quotes though.
You know your American history - good post.
I hate to say it Ron, he is right.
Ben Franklin was a Deist.....he also had multiple affairs throughout his lifelong marriage. He was a brilliant man, and famously practical, but morality was not his strong suit.
Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian and denied all Christ's miracles.
William Penn was a Quaker
In the end I agree with the right to worship as we please, but I do think it is important to recognize that Founding Fathers believed this so strongly because it is one of the founding pillars of Freemasonry. Not all the Founding Fathers were Christian, but most were Masons. Washington DC is designed according to Mason ideals and symbols. I am not saying this to be a conspiracy nut.....it is simply a matter of history.
Aspen, first please read the addition to my post at the bottom on "Deist's"
You said, "Ben Franklin was a Deist.....he also had multiple affairs throughout his lifelong marriage. He was a brilliant man, and famously practical, but morality was not his strong suit.
Hey nobody is saying he was a perfect. Are you? you say you're a Christian don't you. He was a BELIEVER like the rest of us poor imperfect Christians.
You said, "Thomas Jefferson was a Unitarian and denied all Christ's miracles. In the above quote he said he was a Christian and believed in Jesus. That's good enouph for me.
By the way I'm waiting for some proof of what you said / he said. Otherwise it's just more revisionist history to me. PROOF please. A quote will do.
William Penn was a Quaker ". So! Do you think that makes him not a Christian? What is a Christian to you brother. Do they have to agree on every doctrine you have?
edit - see you tomorrow, it's late here.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
First of all, I am not trying to pick a fight.
Second, Jefferson published his own version of the NT called the "Jefferson Bible", which edits out all of Jesus' miracles. Unitarians reject the true nature of God as a Trinity. I believe adherence to the true nature of God, including the doctrine of the Trinity and the doctrine of the Incarnation is mandatory for orthodoxy.
Third, Quakers have a wide variety of beliefs concerning the Trinity - it is not an important doctrine for most Quakers. They were considered heretics by orthodox Christians during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Fourth....Ben Franklin did not believe in organized religion, he did not believe in a personal God........if he behaved like he did in a conservative church today, he would be kicked out.
Look, I am not invested in the idea that the founding fathers were Christian or atheists or whatever.....I just think it is important to see history as clearly as possible.
I do consider myself to be a Christian.
The idea of Manifest Destiny for the United States actually did involve Bible prophecy, that is, for those who understand how the United States represent the 13th tribe Manasseh in the promise that he "... also shall become a people, and he also shall be great ..." per Gen.48.
God's Birthright ended upon Ephraim and Manasseh per 1 Chronicles 5. They were the two sons born to Joseph while in Egypt. Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" (Gen.48), while his brother Manasseh was to also become a people and great in the same sense.
The ten tribes of Israel went captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, and then later migrated in stages through the Caucasus Mountains around the Black Sea and became known as the Caucasian peoples. They were the Cimmerian and Scythian peoples that migrated into Asia Minor and Europe. They became the founders of the western nations in Asia Minor and Europe. After they migrated to the far reaches of western Europe, they then began to branch off again in migrating to the Americas, and then North America.
Jer 31:1-9
1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people.
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
That "grace in the wilderness" involves the remnant of Israel left after... the sword. That's not about the wilderness trek out of Egypt through Moses. That's about Israel's trek into the wilderness after God had scattered them out of the holy land to Assyria and the land of the Medes. And indeed, the lands of North America were literally a wilderness prior to Caucasians migrating to it from Europe.
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.
5 Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.
Samaria is in the northern parts of the holy lands, where the ten tribed "house of Israel" dwelt prior to God bringing the kings of Assyria to remove them all into captivity. Samaria was the capital city of the northern kingdom of ten tribes, called the "house of Israel" in God's Word. Even today, those northern lands are not inhabited by Israel. That reveals the time when this prophecy is for, for the future gathering of the remnants of believing Israel back to their original lands north of Jerusalem where they had dwelt before God split Israel into two nations. And it reveals God is especially saying this about the ten tribes of Israel, of which Ephraim was their head tribe with kings from Ephraim.
6 For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save Thy people, the remnant of Israel.
That's about the ten tribe's future return to the holy lands under Christ Jesus.
8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn.
(KJV)
Once again, God mentions this in regard to Ephraim, His firstborn.
So what about the American Indians fighting against this when they saw the Caucasian peoples coming in droves from Europe? As they kept seeing more and more coming, they eventually knew a major change was coming, so they tried to prevent it, and determined to wipe them out. Only a few helped the early Europeans survive. Per archaeological evidence, the American Indians also migrated into the Americans coming down from Bering Strait into North America, and then farther south in stages. Their ancient languages include Hebrew-Canaanite words, revealing a probable link to their migrations from the tower of Babel event (Gen.10-11). So it was ancient pagan idolatry vs. God's Israel again, only with the ancient Americas representing the lands and peoples of Canaan again.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Wow....LDS would love that idea! Anything that links the Native Americans to Hebrews is right up their alley!
That idiotic remark reveals you didn't really read that post. Shame on you.
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