Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:1-10
Heb.10[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John.1[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
[36] And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
As you already do know, all blood sacrifices were required to be without flaw.
Last edited:
Why would anyone ask such a SILLY QUESTION unless he loves to stir the pot?
NO! Christ was born of the Spirit not the seed of man.
Therefore, he did not have a sin nature!
Happy to see you in a different light on these boards!
Hello to you all (wave) (the question is at the very end).
Here is the scripture I’m talking about
“to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. And the messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;’ and she, having seen, was troubled at his word, and was reasoning of what kind this salutation may be. And the messenger said to her, ‘Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.’ And Mary said unto the messenger, ‘How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?’ And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God; and lo, Elisabeth, thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month to her who was called barren; because nothing shall be impossible with God.’”
Luke 1:27-37 YLT98
Also this might be helpful to consider,
“for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but [one] tempted in all things in like manner — apart from sin;”
Hebrews 4:15 YLT98
He was born of Mary, but also born by and through the Holy Spirit. He was also tempted in all things.
Are you sure He wasn’t born with a sin nature however he never sinned due to being born by the Holy Spirit, in Mary when she was overshadowed by the Most High, and having the Holy Spirit and the Father with Him to hold him back from ever sinning?
Here is the scripture I’m talking about
“to a virgin, betrothed to a man, whose name [is] Joseph, of the house of David, and the name of the virgin [is] Mary. And the messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord [is] with thee; blessed [art] thou among women;’ and she, having seen, was troubled at his word, and was reasoning of what kind this salutation may be. And the messenger said to her, ‘Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favour with God; and lo, thou shalt conceive in the womb, and shalt bring forth a son, and call his name Jesus; he shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.’ And Mary said unto the messenger, ‘How shall this be, seeing a husband I do not know?’ And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God; and lo, Elisabeth, thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month to her who was called barren; because nothing shall be impossible with God.’”
Luke 1:27-37 YLT98
Also this might be helpful to consider,
“for we have not a chief priest unable to sympathise with our infirmities, but [one] tempted in all things in like manner — apart from sin;”
Hebrews 4:15 YLT98
He was born of Mary, but also born by and through the Holy Spirit. He was also tempted in all things.
Are you sure He wasn’t born with a sin nature however he never sinned due to being born by the Holy Spirit, in Mary when she was overshadowed by the Most High, and having the Holy Spirit and the Father with Him to hold him back from ever sinning?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It's not a silly question to anyone who has a high Christology.
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things just as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
How is it that the Son of God / God incarnate could be tempted as we are?
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God; And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)
So, is the "Sin Nature" resident in human flesh, or should we regard Paul's use of the term "sarx" ("flesh") as merely metaphorical for the Sin Nature (as the authors of the NIV have translated)?
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things just as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
How is it that the Son of God / God incarnate could be tempted as we are?
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God; And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)
So, is the "Sin Nature" resident in human flesh, or should we regard Paul's use of the term "sarx" ("flesh") as merely metaphorical for the Sin Nature (as the authors of the NIV have translated)?
@MatthewG, Jesus was the last Adam. He was created by the Holy Spirit instead of a man created human thru the seed of humans. He was taught original sin thru the world though and subject to temptation that way. Burdened by expectations and restrictions of the people around him, yet he denied them and remained perfect.
1 Corinthians 15:45-49
New King James Version
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
1 Corinthians 15:45-49
New King James Version
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
2Cor 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Jesus is unique in knowing no sin. Thats how he alone overcame death for everyone else.
He was born of God and we are born of fallen flesh that has the death penalty.
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Jesus is unique in knowing no sin. Thats how he alone overcame death for everyone else.
He was born of God and we are born of fallen flesh that has the death penalty.
Last edited:
If Christ had been born of the seed of Joseph, His step father, Christ would have been just like us.
He would have been totally depraved, a slave of sin with no hope in this world, as we are.
But Christ was formed in the woman by the Holy Spirit. Mary was just a vessel for Christ to be born into this world.
There is much argument over this, but there is no way Christ could have been born with a sin nature!
It was all the work of the Holy Spirit!
I should also say that he was subjected with sin and temptation to identify with us that are tempted and sinful. He learned how to lead us out of sin and comfort us.
Last edited:
@MatthewG let me ask you this.
If Mary was a virgin as the scripture says, how was it humanly possible for her to become pregnant?
It was not by the natural process of sperm and egg, it was all the making of the Spirit of God.
I can't explain to you how the Holy Spirit formed the flesh of Christ in Mary, but I can tell you this.
The scripture says, "and the Word was made flesh" and He certainly was not made flesh by anything man did.
If Mary was a virgin as the scripture says, how was it humanly possible for her to become pregnant?
It was not by the natural process of sperm and egg, it was all the making of the Spirit of God.
I can't explain to you how the Holy Spirit formed the flesh of Christ in Mary, but I can tell you this.
The scripture says, "and the Word was made flesh" and He certainly was not made flesh by anything man did.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
In case you forgot, the physical body of Jesus was not generated/born from the seed of Adam (as we all are), but rather from the seed of God's Holy Spirit Himself, who is Spirit.
Mary was flesh, she and her husband had to go and sacrifice to Yahweh to cover their sins. They had a sin nature. Jesus was born from Mary psychically, but conceived by and through the Holy Spirit which the power of the most high overshadowed Mary.
Jesus wasn’t just spiritually was he? He had a psychical body, he was very well capable of doing his own will, but always chose to do his Fathers Will, that being Yahweh.
If Jesus was flesh and blood like you and me, and was capable of being tempted, wouldn’t Jesus also been born with a sin nature? Mary and Joseph had a sin nature. So did Adam and Eve, they had something built into them in which they could choose to disobey God.
The whole original sin concept doesn’t seem biblical to me, but what is being proposed above is biblical.
Jesus wasn’t just spiritually was he? He had a psychical body, he was very well capable of doing his own will, but always chose to do his Fathers Will, that being Yahweh.
If Jesus was flesh and blood like you and me, and was capable of being tempted, wouldn’t Jesus also been born with a sin nature? Mary and Joseph had a sin nature. So did Adam and Eve, they had something built into them in which they could choose to disobey God.
The whole original sin concept doesn’t seem biblical to me, but what is being proposed above is biblical.
Jesus being the last man Adam and born from the Holy Spirit, he was born like Adam, without sin nature. You're probably not going to convince many people of this false belief. At least not those that know the scriptures. The scriptures can be misleading if you don't understand them all. Like the fact that he was born of the perfect Holy Spirit. And the fact that he was the last man Adam.
Was Adam and Eve created with a sin nature MatthewG? No they weren't. Then neither was Jesus.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
In case you missed it, I already provided the scriptural answer to your question a few posts back:
Hebrews 10:1-10
Heb.10[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Spiritually, Jesus was "brought forth" from the everlasting eternity of God Himself, before the foundation of the world, and is the express IMAGE of the Father [an exact image of who the Father is].
As Jesus said: If you have seen me, you HAVE seen the Father". That is not to say that the Father looks like us. It is only Jesus who was made to be in the appearance of us, in the likeness of sinful flesh, but without sin, as we have inherited through the fall of Adam.
Hello to you all again (waves)
Yes, Jesus was the Second Adam, the first Adam was made from the earth. The second adam came down born of the holy spirit which the power of the most high overshadowed Mary. Jesus was born with the inherit flesh of Mary, having been born of her own flesh, though the Holy Spirit is what placed the seed with-in her.
Adam the first had flesh, so does Adam the second though he born from Heaven.
Listen the question that is being asked "Did yeshua/jesus have a sin nature" is not blasphemy at all to ask.
Adam had his own will, just as Eve had her own will, if they were not created to have a sin nature - a nature which allow them to choose to obey or disobey God, then how did they disobey Him? There would have never been a fall even with Satan and he placed a temptation in the mind, of Eve. Which Eve had reacted upon the temptation by making HER own choice to disobey what God had previously told Adam not to do, and thus she had sinned when she ate. Before hand she was fine, and did not have any sin or did not disobey God, nor did Adam.
Because of these things, people are trying to make it as though Jesus was not born without a Sin Nature - or having the choice to choose to Sin even as the Second Adam.
If Jesus did not have a sin nature, he would have never had his own will at all, Adam and Eve would have had not been able to have their own will at all either. God would have everything controlled, and if he had control over Adam and Eve, then He would have caused them to fall, and they had no choice anyway.
So was Jesus/yeshua born with a nature capable of sinning? He was tempted in all ways and never did commit sin. That makes clear indication of Jesus having a sinful nature, however he was born from above (being the very Word of God - in Flesh), in which Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit, and had His Father with him. Yeshua was held back from Sinning by submitting his own will to His Father - Yahweh. Thus Jesus never committed any sin at all but was tempted though never submitted like Eve and Adam had done.
Hope this helps you understand what is being said, if you read all of this carefully.
Yes, Jesus was the Second Adam, the first Adam was made from the earth. The second adam came down born of the holy spirit which the power of the most high overshadowed Mary. Jesus was born with the inherit flesh of Mary, having been born of her own flesh, though the Holy Spirit is what placed the seed with-in her.
Adam the first had flesh, so does Adam the second though he born from Heaven.
Listen the question that is being asked "Did yeshua/jesus have a sin nature" is not blasphemy at all to ask.
Adam had his own will, just as Eve had her own will, if they were not created to have a sin nature - a nature which allow them to choose to obey or disobey God, then how did they disobey Him? There would have never been a fall even with Satan and he placed a temptation in the mind, of Eve. Which Eve had reacted upon the temptation by making HER own choice to disobey what God had previously told Adam not to do, and thus she had sinned when she ate. Before hand she was fine, and did not have any sin or did not disobey God, nor did Adam.
Because of these things, people are trying to make it as though Jesus was not born without a Sin Nature - or having the choice to choose to Sin even as the Second Adam.
If Jesus did not have a sin nature, he would have never had his own will at all, Adam and Eve would have had not been able to have their own will at all either. God would have everything controlled, and if he had control over Adam and Eve, then He would have caused them to fall, and they had no choice anyway.
So was Jesus/yeshua born with a nature capable of sinning? He was tempted in all ways and never did commit sin. That makes clear indication of Jesus having a sinful nature, however he was born from above (being the very Word of God - in Flesh), in which Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit, and had His Father with him. Yeshua was held back from Sinning by submitting his own will to His Father - Yahweh. Thus Jesus never committed any sin at all but was tempted though never submitted like Eve and Adam had done.
Hope this helps you understand what is being said, if you read all of this carefully.
Also think about this, God created Angels of heaven to have free choice, Satan had a choice to disobey God. So did God create Angels to have the similar nature of "Sin nature" to make the choice to disobey God? By their own free will?
@MatthewG We have some serious problems here in this post! Where on earth did you find this? I know you did not come up with this yourself!
Adam and Eve were created with free choice but did not have a sin nature! They were created in the innocence of purity!
They had no idea what sin was, that is how they were naked and were not embarrassed, they were in the realm of innocence and purity.
God gave them one thing they could not do, eat from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." There was no potion or ingredient in the fruit of that tree that "opened their eyes and they knew they were naked."
Their eyes were open to the knowledge of good and evil because they sinned! They have now done what God told them not to do (which is sin) and now they have fallen from that position of innocence and purity into another realm of being, disobedience!
God told them the day they ate of that tree they would die! That is spiritual death (separation from God). It is inevitable that spiritual death will bring forth physical death to man.
Now the innocence of man has fallen to disobedience of man with the result of spiritual and physical death.
This is called the "fall of man." Adam and Eve were created with the power of procreation. Now all that would be born by procreation from Adam and Eve will be born in this new realm of the results of their sin. That realm is the reality of sin, the sin nature.
We have all been born with this sin nature, we are all born fallen man from the womb.
But Christ was not born of man, He was born of the Spirit. Therefore Christ was not born with a sin nature as we are by the seed of fallen man.
Similar threads
