What is the High Calling in Christ?

L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d said:

God is so patient and full of understanding that he continually waits for us to catch up.

I am lagging in my own walk with him but I'm still pressing on.

I want eyes forward, shoulders squared and the full armour applied that I might be a worthy servant pushing against the barrier that keeps us from full and complete surrender to all things God !

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He knows us, always has, so His plan for our lives takes into account all of our mistakes and missteps, and He's already put the solutions in place. (Preaching to myself here also, it's been a rough couple of weeks. Months. Years. OK. Life is hard)

I think many of us think we are lagging behind what we should be. But in this also, Trust Jesus.

I like this a lot:

I want eyes forward, shoulders squared and the full armour applied that I might be a worthy servant pushing against the barrier that keeps us from full and complete surrender to all things God.

Much love!

marks said:

Imagine if I started parroting to you about your supposed spiritual shortfalls, and you know - you know - that it's off base. But I just continue and continue and continue, regardless of anything you actually do or say. Would you not begin to ask yourself . . . What is this guy going on about?

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My response would be to prayerfully receive the admonition and or rebuke or correction, especially if that person passes the test of the Spirit. Like I have repeatedly said, I with Paul only know in part.... That is what a renewed mind will teach you, not to mention the Discipline of God. The More I see God the lesser i become. He is thrice Holy, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent, the more time I Spend in His presence the weaker I become, and God uses those who are Broken and contrite and teachable. He is standing at the Door knocking waiting to come in and sup with every believer out there and feed them the bread of Life, But he will not force his way in, hence he knocks.

David H. said:

My response would be to prayerfully receive the admonition and or rebuke or correction, especially if that person passes the test of the Spirit. Like I have repeatedly said, I with Paul only know in part.... That is what a renewed mind will teach you, not to mention the Discipline of God. The More I see God the lesser i become. He is thrice Holy, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omnipotent, the more time I Spend in His presence the weaker I become, and God uses those who are Broken and contrite and teachable. He is standing at the Door knocking waiting to come in and sup with every believer out there and feed them the bread of Life, But he will not force his way in, hence he knocks.

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Your reply is non-sequitor. Sound's great, but you didn't actually respond to what I actually wrote.

The idea here is when the person who claims to speak for God actually fails the test. Hopefully that will be more clear.

Anyway, I'll leave it at this point to let you consider all of this. Perhaps you will.

Don't be afraid to let go of false ideas. It may feel like losing, but you gain.

Much love!

marks said:

We have faith, we are to put on virtue, or perhaps better expressed as, put on valor. Not just virtue - goodness - but also the heart to fight for it. To that add knowledge, we have to understand God's idea of what is good, right. To that, add self-control. Discipline yourself to continue valiantly in doing good. Perserverance, continue, continue, continue, continue, add godliness, Literally, well-worshiping.

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As someone who a has dabbled in ethics classes in college, virtue is so much deeper that just doing the right thing, as are all these stages of Christian maturation. A Muslim would say submitting to Allah is a virtuous thing, but behind the submission is a threat of the sword, thus making the submission based on self-preservation, thus not virtuous at all. You see that is one of the major differences between Christianity and Islam, Salvation to the Christian is a free gift, submission of our will to the will of God is done from desire to Love God with all our heart because He Loved us first. Thus Christian submission is true virtue... we don't have to submit, but we want to. And when we do, The Spirit freely gives more gifts.

Getting back to the topic . . .

Philippians 3:10-16 KJV
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Much love!

marks said:

Your reply is non-sequitor. Sound's great, but you didn't actually respond to what I actually wrote.

The idea here is when the person who claims to speak for God actually fails the test. Hopefully that will be more clear.

Anyway, I'll leave it at this point to let you consider all of this. Perhaps you will.

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My experience has been that even in the most heated debates on forums and what not I have learned from those who are trying to figure the whole truth out, some amazing things that I would never have seen Had i not had the discussion with them. I Have been wrong on some things and right on others, that includes you. Had I not been able to prayerfully receive admonition and correction I would still be holding some of those errant understandings I was brought up with in my fundamentalist background. Not that fundamentalism has a lot of errors, but there is a distinct spirit of fear therein of anything Spiritual, and of the heart, and experiential, and of divine revelation, and gifts of the Spirit etc. It is in other words very rationally driven and not driven by the heart, and led by the Spirit, because they fear the loss of rational control and the security associated with it. That is to say they have little faith in the supernatural aspects of the Christian faith. So when I see you always going to the renewing of the mind, what i sense in you is this spirit of fear.... Same goes with those who teach cessationism, those who deny the concept of the latter rain, disparage the gift of tongues, deny the prophetic word given to brothers and sisters in Christ etc. They fear the supernatural nature of our faith, and have turned it into an entirely rational faith.

Read John 6:1-14... notice the comments by Andrew and Phillip. This is the rational mind speaking denying the supernatural... their faith lacked, because they could not see past the physical to the supernatural. That is all you are doing IMO. This is why Paul stresses in 1 Corinthians chapter 1-3 the vanity of the Human mind.... To walk in the Spirit is to be led by the Spirit, not the human mind.... we walk by faith and not by sight.

marks said:

Getting back to the topic . . .

Philippians 3:10-16 KJV
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Much love!

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I decided to take a look at v.16 and study it's context. Philippians 3: 16
( cxt 13-19 )
V16. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We do not have Paul, nor Peter, nor John, nor any original Apostle to look to or follow their example except by the word inspired of God.
Yet we are instructed here to WALK
( live) by the same rule and MIND ( obey) the same thing.

IMO the above reference would be the unmultilated Word of God. Not that we are cookie cutter followers but that we would ALL as Jesus instructed, 1. Love the Lord God and him only with every part of our being and life, 2. Love our neighbor or fellow man as ourself in liberty supplying needs as blessed unto us, and 3. Love of the family of God that the world might mark our discipleship or our Master ! Obedience to his commands and the will and love of God should be enough evidence to convict us as being followers of Christ.

Paul said MARK those that follow this example as a TRUE BELIEVERS.

We hear so much twisting of the pure words of God """""" oh,don't judge. Can't inspect fruit, yada yada """""""" Yet Paul said to mark those that are righteous and following God.

If we are to do the above in getting as close to the mark of the high calling of God, then the plumline must be the WORD OF GOD !

Not a denominal creed, statement, or doctrinal teaching but the whole precepts in the word of God. Our standard in practice to live by, walk in and talk about, period !

Still meditating on what it means, "the above calling of God in Christ Jesus", I think this centers on 2 ideas,

Being called into glory after finishing the race. I think this speaks for itself.

Being made conformable to His death, here, now. I think this is what leads us to the ideal Christian life, in that Jesus was fully submitted to the Father, He became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Even the loss of anything and everything.

Being fully obedient, He accomplished all of the Father's desire, leaving nothing undone. Jesus' thoughts, feelings, choices, values, actions, all completely surrendered to the Father, and in return, He lived in the full spiritual life, nothing lacking, spiritual intimacy with His Father, power over unclean spirits,

Isaiah 11:2 KJV
2) And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Without measure.

God gives to each of us a measure of faith. Lord, increase our faith! Even our tiny faith can move mountains. What was Jesus answer, when they asked for the faith to forgive others? He told the story of the servant doing what he's supposed to do, and not even claiming credit for that, "I'm just an unprofitable servant, I've only done my duty."

Give me more, God, that I can serve You more!

The more we can trust and obey, the more we will live the ideal Christian life. Obedience is the direct result of trust, belief.

Odd example, but here goes. I've learned that keeping figs daily in my diet keeps hair on my head. When I stop eating fits, I start thinning from the top center. When I resume eating figs, it comes back in thicker. After seeing the pattern 3 times, I then tested it, and got the exact same result. So now I believe that if I don't eat figs, I'm going to lose my hair. I want my hair. I've always liked my hair, and I think I present better with my hair. Now, God's will be done. Of course, He told me to eat figs when I was sick some years ago.

But the point is, I believe eating figs maintains an healthy head of hair, so can you guess what I do? I eat figs, every day. My actions conform to my belief, and my desire.

I desire to have a mind fully conformed to Christ. My desire is far greater than just to have hair! I believe that Christian fellowship, a steady diet of the Bible, in reading and study and medition, making my "inputs" like media to be godly, hymns, sermons, Scripture, that these things are effective ways by which we are conformed to Christ. So I fellowship with Christians, consistenly read the Bible, well, you must see where I'm going with this.

We do the things we believe to be effective to obtain the things we actually want. So what do we want, and how do we know how to obtain it? Do we want the right thing? Do we actually know how to apprehend it?

The Love Chapter . . . the Fruit of the Spirit . . . 2 Peter "Add to your faith . . .", these are key passages in defining the ideal Christian life. These are our core character. If what comes out of us is not in harmony with the true and full spirit of these passages, then we are not on the right Way. How honest can we be with ourselves?

A forum like this is quite the environment to bring out what lurks inside us. We have to be willing to examine ourselves, to know without self-deception our real motives. That can be very difficult. And I pray the Holy Spirit give each of us true discernment into ourselves, knowing that deception and denial simply pull us further away from where we truly want to go. I pray in Jesus Name we will have minds like Christ, and that we will so know the Scriptures, and have such a truly open heart that we can apply them to ourselves honestly, fairly, in the safety of God's love and power.

Regardless of distractions, I think this is a topic very worthy of meditation and discussion. The heart of the Christian life, the high calling in Christ.

Much love!

marks said:

Do we have the power of God in us - now - to live holy lives according to God's will? Or do we require more power than already given us?

Is it impossible for us to trust and obey God - now - in what we've received from Him now? Impossible until we receive our Second Pentecost?

Is it that we are waiting for God's power? Or are we rather waiting because we are unwilling to make the good choices now?

Is the church unable to know unity in the faith and knowledge of Jesus by the Spirit that is in us? Impossible until the Latter Rain? Or could we, if we are willing to trust and obey?

Much love!

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To answer your earlier point, yes the Lord keeps us, and I would say it is the Lord keeping us in the beginning by plunking us down in churches, in the corporate body, to nurture the newly born. That is how it has gone in the past for the majority at any rate. (Nowadays, that might be counterproductive since many churches are so far off track.)

I;m not sure exactly what you're arguing with, there seems to be a lot of agreement with some of what you're saying.....guessing there is some history with this topic that I haven't read. Some things I believe speak to the personal as well as to the corporate. Latter rain....I think is both. I believe it can happen personally to individuals who grow to that extent in this life, and will happen to many corporately in the end. But what I understand from the Lord is that it comes as springing up from the deep, from the store we already have in us (extra oil - Christ IN us the hope of GLORY) while the Lord pours down at the same time. (Sounds a lot like bride and groom coming together.) As it was in the days of Noah.

I've found these scriptures to be encouraging:

Gen 7:10-11

And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Water was springing up from the earth in fountains, while rain was pouring down at the same time. ("Deep calling unto deep...all our fountains are in Him.")

Psa 85:9-13

Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.

Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.

Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.

Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.

I have no dog in this race....all I want is the truth. If anything needs tweaking or changing in my understanding then I welcome the Lord to tweak, always. He has tweaked and grown me over the years and it's always a good thing. And I welcome Him to change ME as He sees fit. We only see in a glass darkly.

marks said:

To me it sounded that he was speaking of more than just practice and perception, but he's not answered for himself, so the question remains.

I would not look past the Holy Spirit towards keeping our faith. We are kept by the power of God.



This to me is our life with God. We each know Him personally, as He works in each of us personally. I believe He is nurturing us each of us to the fullest extend that it can happen. We help and hurt by our choices, and His program for our life takes each into account.

I think we get into problems when we take what God has done with us personally, those personal ways that are not presented in the Bible, such as whether God will address a certain issue with a miracle now or with tribulation for years, I think we get into problems when we insist that the way God works with us, is how He must work with everyone, and if you don't agree, you are unspiritual.

Again I agree with you, that at first, we don't know much, and we are more "part of a crowd". Not always, not everyone, but I think that's likely common. It's the beginning of discipleship, the beginning of the renewing of the mind. Not because we lack of God's Spirit, but because we are not renewed. I don't see this as being "the first stage of salvation, corporately in Christ", then we wait for the second stage, "personally in Christ". Being "In Christ" is salvation, is new birth, is eternal life. We have to grow into that. Like being given a new suit, but I'm only 17. It won't fit fully until I'm 22, but it's still the complete new suit. Maybe that's a poor analogy. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying. You can't wear it right. Everyone can see you aren't wearing it right. You don't even know the rules for the buttons! Just the same . . .

Much love!

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God gives grace to each one as He apportions. Yes, He can give grace miraculously, it's always miraculous. And often it's after He has been working in our life to remove the obstacles to our receiving it. If we are without chastisement we are illegitimate children....so that is generally the norm for us.

Thinking in terms of stages of growth, yes I think that is not taking it too far:

Psa 131:1-3

[[A Song of degrees of David.]] LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. (humility, meekness)

Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever.

Isa 28:9

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

marks said:

The idea here is when the person who claims to speak for God actually fails the test. Hopefully that will be more clear.

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Clear as mud. Failing the test in your economy = injured me by speaking the truth.

Lizbeth said:

.....guessing there is some history with this topic that I haven't read.

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There is history through past interactions. There is a pattern that repeats itself from thread to thread.

Much love!

Lizbeth said:

Latter rain....I think is both. I believe it can happen personally to individuals who grow to that extent in this life, and will happen to many corporately in the end. But what I understand from the Lord is that it comes as springing up from the deep, from the store we already have in us (extra oil - Christ IN us the hope of GLORY) while the Lord pours down at the same time.

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I think this is a good description of God's working in us.

We have the Holy Spirit, yet if we do not live in His power, it's not because He is lacking in us, it's because we don't apprehend His power.

In times of tribulation, tribulation works endurance, and endurance, experience, and experience hope, that is, a sure trust in God's promised end. So then greater tribulation produces greater hope. Hope is sister to Faith. Tribulation pushes us away from the world into the arms of God, as we repudiate the world, and invest our trust in God. Buying that oil.

And as the entire church is pressed in tribulation, the entire church will know greater endurance, and greater experience, and greater hope. Not because of a second Pentecost, but because tribulation works endurance, and on to hope. Our hope does not disappoint because of the love of God outpoured into our hearts.

The hope that is built through tribulation is sure - why? Because of the love of God already "outpoured" into our hearts. Like we're just the conduit. We're the nord stream 2 pipeline of God's love, filled with His love, surging through us, now blow up the fleshy shell that keeps it from just pouring out in all directions!

Yes, I like your description above. We finally learn, through the workings of afflictions, to release God's love into the world, having secured our own hope in Him. That's why we withhold God's love from others. We think we need something more, can't give things away. We can't give ourselves away. We're wrapped up in appearances and station. God help us!!

We finally learn that Christ in us is all in all, and we don't have to withhold anything, because of the power of the Spirit Who lives in us.

Good stuff!

Much love!

Lizbeth said:

I have no dog in this race....all I want is the truth. If anything needs tweaking or changing in my understanding then I welcome the Lord to tweak, always. He has tweaked and grown me over the years and it's always a good thing. And I welcome Him to change ME as He sees fit. We only see in a glass darkly.

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Amen!!

Much love!

L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d said:

Paul said MARK those that follow this example as a TRUE BELIEVERS.

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I've been very blessed to have a number of men in my life - and women - who have so fully shown a Godly Christian life that I've been able to know them as these examples. The value is inestimable to have this "living Bible"!

L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d said:

We hear so much twisting of the pure words of God """""" oh,don't judge. Can't inspect fruit, yada yada """""""" Yet Paul said to mark those that are righteous and following God.

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We have several passages that give us simple descriptions of Christlike people. The Fruit of the Spirit. The Love Chapter. How Christian is backbiting? And how much is that going on? Not to put too fine a point on it!

We should be those who may be so marked as examples! We have to be willing to know and live by these characteristics of the ideal Christian, the spiritual Christian, so we may more fully cooperate with the Spirit as He renews us.

Much love!

Episkopos said:

to humble themselves and seek the Lord

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This is to be our basic manner of living, I should say!

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Much love!

Episkopos said:

But there is only one step into holiness. That step is being crucified in the outer man so that the inner man is free to be joined with Christ...by entering INTO Him.

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You've spoken of this before, both that we must crucify our flesh to enter into Christ, and that God must then, if He will, bring us into Christ, where we walk in Zion, where He is, without sin. I realize this is simplified, but is this the right idea?

Much love!

marks said:

Can you show Scripture that will help me understand what you mean, "apply the blood properly in our lives"? What does it mean to "apply the blood"? I'm aware how that expression fits with annointing the Mercyseat. What passages are shaping your view on this?

For myself, I think the primary issues are in why we may fall short are our failure to trust Jesus, and failure to obey Him.

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Sorry, missed this comment earlier, have a couple minutes to address it right now.

When we are born again we do not fully comprehend all the gifts and promises the cross has to offer us. Most born again understand the blood as essential for the forgiveness of sins, and for salvation etc., But the Blood also has a protective quality, a covering that enables victory over sin, victory over Satan, The Blood sanctifies and cleanses us when we rightly apply the blood in our lives. The Blood brings assurance of salvation.... You want verses, just do a search and discover what the blood entails. These are all promises God has given us, victories he gives us. We many times overlook this, and as a result fall victim to these pitfalls. The Link will give you some idea....

30 Things the Blood of Jesus Does - 30 Scripture Verses (sharefaith.com)

Philippians 3:13-16 LITV
13) Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold, but one thing I do, forgetting the things behind, and stretching forward to those things before,
14) I press on after a mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15) Then as many as are perfect, let us be of this mind; and if you think anything differently, God will also reveal this to you.
16) Yet as to where we have arrived, walk by the same rule, being of the same mind.

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Tribulation works endurance because these are things we can't just fix. We have to endure through them, because we don't control them. While we continue to try to control them from fleshiness, they will continue, or will repeat. Well, we are all unique, and God works with us individually, but for many/most of us, I think this is how it is.

We have to endure, because we aren't up to the task. Learning to turn our lives over to God is in showing us how weak and beggardly we actually are. And as we see how holy God is, and we see who and what we are, we tremble at the distance we cannot cross! We need Him, we love Him, we want Him, and now we learn to stop thinking we deserve Him, that we are finally "good enough" for Him, that we've "qualified", we just want Him.

Drawing near to Him, He draws near to us.

Pressing toward the mark is opening your hands and letting go. Lip service doesn't work, the true belief in the heart of my position relative to God, and my absolute need for Jesus Christ.

Much love!