Is believing/faith a work ?
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes it is, you will see at the judgment, Im afraid it will be too late then, may God be pleased to deliver you from work salvation, for it contradicts the clear teaching of Grace.
God is good, loving, and just to save any person that God chooses to save from the wrath of God. You call God many evil names - you keep proving 2 Peter 2:9-10.
God saves, and that is the meaning of the name Jesus. Man is saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ the Lord. Man is not saved by obeying the commandments.
If it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” (The Apostle Paul, Romans 7:7).
Paul is very clear right there, and I echo his words as my own; moreover, Peter is absolutely clear that the people didn't have the ability to obey the commandments.
The Apostle Peter declared "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10), so your thoughts of "Commands imply both ability" are contrary to Apostolic testimony. See "a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear" with relation to the commandants such as "you shall not bear false witness".
Commands result in fruit/deeds for a person, and only two exclusive results exist for commands, either obedience or disobedience; therefore, a born of God person bears successful obedience fruit of the Spirit of the Holy God (Galatians 5:22-23) or an unregenerate person born of the flesh does the disobedient deeds of the flesh thus not inheriting the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21); moreover, commands do not impart ability nor even imply ability - unless the impartation of ability is express in the command.
Commands show who is of who or what.
Men are accountable to God for man's sin against God (Romans 1:20, Romans 3:12).
A man of the world is desperately lost and hopelessly dead in sin, but God alone converts that dead sinner into a living saint, and this saint shows evidence of being saved - the evidence is called fruit of the Spirit - the saint obeys God by the Power of God to God's glory!
See that the commandments show a man that he opposes God - the man sees his desperate position - an insurmountable and impassable obstacle, that is, the obstacle is the man's own flesh - the flesh is under imminent destruction.
God causes a man of the world to become a man of the Spirit - the man sees that Jesus alone takes the man beyond the flesh - the man overcomes death by the Power of God. Nothing, not even a choice executed by the man, nothing the man does nor did brings about salvation. The man is utterly and completely dependent upon Jesus for deliverance.
God alone, in God's majestic mercy saves man from the wrath of God by God's grace for God's glory!
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
See that you wrote "Acts 11:18 when God granted repentence unto life to the Gentiles describes God's role in the salvation of the Gentiles by giving the Gentiles an opportunity to have sins forgiven" which results in your heart's adulterated "Well then, God has granted to offer to the Gentiles also the opportunity for repentance that leads to life." (the word of Ernest T. Bass nullifying Apostolic testimony); however, the Apostles testified "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18).
Get this, grant is defined as "to transfer", "to bestow", and "to confer". The Apostles used granted in the context of authority, specifically God, conferring repentance into subordinates, specifically Gentile persons; in other words, the Apostles convey the spiritual Truth (John 14:6) that God causes repentance in a person.
Again, Repentance Defined
THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED
- What is repentance?
- Who controls repentance?
- How does a person repent?
LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION
Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".Repent: think differently afterwards
The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.
Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).
FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION
Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):- For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
- I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
- For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".
Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!
NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".
That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!
The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.
The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).
SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE
BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!
BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)
See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.
BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)
Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.
THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED
God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!
Return to main essay "Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor"
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Commands DO imply ability and accountability else it makes NO SENSE in giving commands. God commanded Noah to build an ark and he had the ability and accountability to obey. Those Jews in Acts 2 were commanded to repent and be baptized and they had ability and accountability to do it.
Salvation is impossible apart from obedience to God's will:
Rom 6:16:
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
There are only 2 eternal fates 1) condemnation 2) salvation. Therefore each one of us is serving one of two masters, we each either serve
1) sin unto death - condemnation
2) obedience unto righteousness - salvation
There are no other options. The ideas of faith onlyism, Calvinsim deny "obedience unto righteousness" leaving only one other option.
sheariah07
Member
It is. Just think of it like eating food. If one believes that food is needed to make him alive, he will eat. But if someone says he believes but doesn't eat will die because of starvation. He believes food will make him alive but does not eat is the same as one who knows what is good but does not do it. Same with one who claims to believe Jesus but does not obey his word. He will die.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
If man can only repent if God enables him to repent then that makes God culpable for the impenitent yet God has no such culpability. And again it makes NO SENSE to command men to repent if man cannot possibly do so. John says God's commands are not grievous (cruel) yet giving commands impossible to obey would be grevious in every sense of the word. But the command to repent implies both ability and accountability on the part of man.
Calvinism has no basis in the Bible nor logic:
--it makes man to be innocent victims of an evil, sadistic, cruel God that requires man to do the impossible
--it makes God a respecter of persons when He is not (Acts 10:24-35)
--it makes the great commission in taking the gospel to men useless, meaningless
========================
Acts 11:18 granted means to give opportunity. God gave the Gentiles the opportunity to have life by giving, granting them the avenue of repentance. Yet it was still encumbent upon the Gentiles to repent...some did but some did not take advantage of what God granted them.
Again, Psa 2:8 God would give, grant the Gentile nations to Christ as an inheritence. Yet we see from Acts 10 when the gospel first went to the Gentiles not every Gentile was universally unconditionally given, granted to Christ. Only those that obeyed God's plan of salvation were the one given, granted to Christ. Therefore when God is said to give or grant some thing, then that is expressing God's role in the salvation of man in providing what is needed for man to be saved, but it is still up to man to obey that God has given, granted.
Johann
Well-Known Member
No man can come to me. God’s grace is necessary in order to produce faith (v. 37)
because sinners
are spiritually unable to trust in Christ on their own accord (v. 65; 3:3–6,19–20; Eph. 2:1,5). draw. The
verb, meaning to powerfully and effectively pull (21:11; Acts 16:19; 21:30), is here applied to God’s
effectual call of sinners to Christ (12:32).
Having stated in strong terms that no man could come to Him unless the Father drew him, the Lord goes on to explain how the Father draws men. First of all, He quotes from Isa_54:13, “And they shall all be taught by God.” God not only simply chooses individuals. He does something about it. He speaks to their hearts through the teaching of His precious Word.
Then man's own will is involved. Those who respond to the teaching of God's Word and learn from the Father are the ones who come to Christ. Here again we see the two great truths of God's sovereignty and man's choice placed side by side in Scripture. They show us that salvation has a divine side and a human side as well.
Jesus further explained how the sinner can come to God: it is through the truth of the Word (Joh_6:44-45). The Father draws the sinner by His Word. Jesus quoted Isa_54:13 (or perhaps Jer_31:33-34) to prove His point: “And they shall all be taught of God.” It is through the teaching of the Word that God draws people to the Saviour. (Note Joh_5:24 and its emphasis on hearing the Word.) The sinner hears, learns, and comes as the Father draws him. A mystery? Yes! A blessed reality? Yes!
This was basically the same message He gave after He had healed the paralytic (see Joh_5:37-40). The crowd wanted to see something, but their real need was to learn something. It is by the Word that we “see” God and receive the faith to come to Christ and trust Him (Rom_10:17).
Warren
Except the Father draw him (ean mē helkusēi auton). Negative condition of third class with ean mē and first aorist active subjunctive of helkuō, older form helkō, to drag like a net (Joh_21:6), or sword (Joh_18:10), or men (Act_16:19), to draw by moral power (Joh_12:32), as in Jer_31:3. Surō, the other word to drag (Act_8:3; Act_14:19) is not used of Christ’s drawing power. The same point is repeated in Joh_6:65. The approach of the soul to God is initiated by God, the other side of Joh_6:37. See Rom_8:7 for the same doctrine and use of oude dunatai like oudeis dunatai here.
Robertson
Draw (ἑλκύση)
Two words for drawing are found in the New Testament, σύρω and ἑλκύω. The distinction is not habitually observed, and the meanings often overlap. Σύρω is originally to drag or trail along, as a garment or torn slippers. Both words are used of haling to justice. (See Act_8:3; Act_17:6; Act_16:19) In Act_14:19, συ.ρω, of dragging Paul's senseless body out of the city at Lystra. In Joh_21:6, Joh_21:8, Joh_21:11, both words of drawing the net. In Joh_18:10, ἑλκύω, of drawing Peter's sword. One distinction, however, is observed: σύρω is never used of Christ's attraction of men. See Joh_6:44; Joh_12:32. Ἑλκύω occurs only once outside of John's writings (Act_16:19). Luther says on this passage: “The drawing is not like that of the executioner, who draws the thief up the ladder to the gallows; but it is a gracious allurement, such as that of the man whom everybody loves, and to whom everybody willingly goes.”
Vincent.
by grace ye are saved. We are saved sola gratia, by grace alone. Saving grace is motivated only
by God’s magnificent mercy and love, not any worthiness in us (Titus 3:5). Salvation comes from God’s
power, not by any good decision or act of ours, for it is a supernatural resurrection from the dead by
union with Christ (quickened us together with Christ).
2:6–7 The believer’s union in and through Christ Jesus implies that he already shares Christ’s exaltation
in heavenly places and one day will experience that glory (1:3,20; Rev. 3:21). shew the exceeding riches
of his grace in his kindness. God will glorify Himself by showering love upon His people forever.
2:8–9 Salvation by grace is received only through faith in Christ, and not of works as if one could have
any merit (Rom. 3:28; Gal. 2:16). it is the gift of God. Since believers were once dead in sin (v. 1), both
faith and the blessings it receives must come from God. lest any man should boast. To reserve all glory
for God alone (1 Cor. 1:31).
2:10 God’s grace changes people so that they do the good works to which God predestined them (1:4).
created in Christ Jesus. The risen Lord was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrected body (Col.
1:18), and those united to Him are new creations (2 Cor. 5:17).
Since the gospel was first preached in the world, men have objected that God is unjust to require in
His law what they cannot perform, because, as sinners, they are wholly incapable of doing any good and
are inclined to all wickedness. In a similar vein, men have argued that if God is sovereign in salvation,
they cannot be blamed for their lack of faith or grace: “Why doth he yet find fault?
For who hath
resisted his will?” (Rom. 9:19). In other words, lack of ability is held to imply lack of responsibility.
Both lines of argument are exposed as false when man’s present fallen state is contrasted with his
original state of knowledge, holiness, freedom, and communion with God as his Creator.
As a creature
made in God’s image, Adam knew and loved God and had the power, will, and freedom to do God’s
will.
Adam threw away these gifts when he yielded to lies and fell into sin. His knowledge of the truth was
suppressed in unrighteousness; his fallen heart was turned away from God; the purposes and desires of
his heart became only evil continually; and his will was enslaved to sin (Gen. 6:5).
Adam inflicted these terrible losses on himself and his offspring. However, such losses could not free
him from the terms of the covenant of works, by which he was bound to obey the law of God written in
his heart: “This do, and thou shalt live” (Luke 10:28).
Though blurred and defaced by sin, that law is
still written in the human heart today, and all men are bound to obey it, whether they will or not,
whether they can or not. Theologians sometimes speak of conscience, or “the light of nature,” when
referring to this law written in the heart (Rom. 2:13–15).
God called Cain to account for his sin in murdering his brother, Abel (Gen. 4:9–12). According to His
severe judgment, God punished the unbelieving and unrepentant world with the flood, while in His
great mercy He saved and protected believing Noah and his family (Gen. 7). Later, because the cry of
Sodom and Gomorrah was great and their sin very grievous, God destroyed these prosperous and proud
cities, raining brimstone and fire from heaven upon them (Gen. 18:20; 19:24–25).
All of these punishments were inflicted by God upon human beings long before the giving of the law
to Israel at Sinai. But, as Paul observes, “Where no law is, there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15).
The
very fact that God punished human transgression before Sinai, even from the dawn of human history,
implies that there always has been a divine law known to mankind; therefore, all men are bound to obey
it or face the consequences if they do not.
The gospel itself, as preached by Christ, comes to us as a command: “The time is fulfilled, and the
kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15; cf. Acts 17:30).
This gospel
imperative is rooted in the fact that the gospel is indeed good news that men ought to believe. If the
minds of men were not darkened, their desires not corrupted, and their wills not enslaved, they would
believe it. The fault is not with Christ or with His gospel but with men who love darkness and will not
come to the light (John 3:19).
You seem to be confused about which post you're replying to. Maybe the below will help you.
Well, before that, let's just touch on the contradiction illuminated between "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 6:29) contrasted against "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) post in this thread exhibits your traditions of men fail (Matthew 15:9).
The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals
The Apostle Paul identifies every man starts out as a natural man with "the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46).
The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own sin against God with "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).
The Apostle Paul includes even the Gentiles in the Law "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" (Romans 2:14).
The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own crime against God with "we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law [comes] the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:19-20).
The Apostle Paul explains that the commands of God are foolishness to man with a "natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14)
The Apostle Paul declares that man's flesh opposes the Spirit of God with "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).
THE FIRST STATE OF MAN IS OPPOSITION TO GOD, AND THE ONLY WAY (JOHN 14:6) FOR MAN'S SALVATION IS FOR GOD TO BIRTH MAN ANEW (JOHN 3:3-8), NOT A WORK OF A CHOICE BY MAN, BUT STRICTLY THE WORK OF GOD IN MAN (JOHN 6:29).
When you wrote "The new birth (Jn 3) occurs when one obeys the gospel by being water baptized" and "Jn 3:5----------born of water and of the Spirit", then you convey your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) that "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one obeys water baptism ritual to cause oneself to be born of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (the word of Ernest T. Bass), yet Lord Jesus did not say your heart's treasure. In Truth (John 14:6), but Lord Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5). YOU WICKEDLY ADULTERATED THE WORD OF GOD!
Now, the "water" that Jesus mentions in John 3:5 is addressed again by Jesus the Word of God in "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.' But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive" (John 7:38-39). YOU LIE WHEN YOU USE YOUR WORDS THAT ARE NOT THE WORD OF GOD.
Note, John 3:5 is just a portion of John 3:5-8, and Jesus has "born of water" occurring one time, but Jesus has "born of the Spirit" occurring three times.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)
A person does not choose to be born. A person does not cause self birth.
A person is "born of the Spirit" exclusively by the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24), and this blessing of God is nothing of man's causation nor man's will because Jesus says it's all God's doing for one to be "born of the Spirit" - just see "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit", so man cannot "will" what man is unable to perceive for King Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) showing that you free-willians are incapable of obeying King Jesus because you cannot perceive the King of the Kingdom of God in Righteousness.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
This is hardcore Reformed doctrines @Kermos so don't be too harsh on those that are disagreeing with you.
No one here wants to ADULTERATE the scriptures on purpose.
Of Free Will
1.God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor by any absolute
necessity of nature determined to good or evil.
Matt. 17:12. James 1:14. Deut. 30:19.
2.Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good, and
well pleasing to God;
but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it.
Eccles. 7:29. Gen. 1:26.
Gen. 2:16–17. Gen. 3:6.
3.Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good
accompanying salvation:
so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good,
and dead in
sin,
is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
Rom. 5:6. Rom. 8:7. John 15:5.
Rom. 3:10,12.
Eph. 2:1,5. Col. 2:13.
John 6:44,65. Eph. 2:2–5. 1 Cor. 2:14. Titus 3:3–5.
4.When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He freeth him from his natural
bondage under sin;
and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is
spiritually good;
yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only,
will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
h Col. 1:13. John 8:34,36.
Phil. 2:13. Rom. 6:18,22.
Gal. 5:17. Rom. 7:15,18–19, 21, 23.
5.The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.
l Eph. 4:13. Heb. 12:23. 1 John 3:2. Jude 24.
Am I unable to make choices, for good, and for evil, as a born again Christian?
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
For it is God which worketh. The great hope and encouragement to the believer is that he is not left
to himself, but is energized to obey by God. to will and to do. God works in His children the willing and
the doing of His good pleasure. It is the responsibility of the believer to obey God. And God graciously
works in and empowers the believer to obey Him. While we are active in sanctification, it is God’s
work.
For it is God which worketh in you,.... Which is both an encouragement to persons conscious of their own weakness to work, as before exhorted to; see Hag_2:4; and a reason and argument for humility and meekness, and against pride and vain glory, since all we have, and do, is from God; and also points out the spring, principle, and foundation of all good works; namely, the grace of God wrought in the heart, which is an internal work, and purely the work of God: by this men become the workmanship of God, created unto good works, Eph_2:10, and are new men, and fitted for the performance of acts of righteousness, and true holiness; and this grace, which God works in them, is wrought in a powerful and efficacious manner, so as not to be frustrated and made void.
The word here used signifies an inward, powerful, and efficacious operation; and the "king's manuscript", mentioned by Grotius and Hammond, adds another word to it, which makes the sense still stronger, reading it thus, "which worketh in you", δυναμει, "by power"; not by moral persuasion, but by his own power, the power of his efficacious grace. The Alexandrian copy reads, δυναμεις, "powers", or "mighty works": God works in his people
both to will and to do of his good pleasure; God works in converted men a will to that which is spiritually good; which is to be understood, not of the formation of the natural faculty of the will; or of the preservation of it, and its natural liberty; or of the general motion of it to natural objects; nor of his influence on it in a providential way; but of the making of it good, and causing a willingness in it to that which is spiritually good.
Men have no will naturally to come to Christ, or to have him to reign over them; they have no desire, nor hungerings and thirstings after his righteousness and salvation; wherever there are any such inclinations and desires, they are wrought in men by God; who works upon the stubborn and inflexible will, and, without any force to it, makes the soul willing to be saved by Christ, and submit to his righteousness, and do his will; he sweetly and powerfully draws it with the cords of love to himself, and to his Son, and so influences it by his grace and spirit, and which he continues, that it freely wills everything spiritually good, and for the glory of God: and he works in them also to "do"; for there is sometimes in believers a will, when there wants a power of doing.
God therefore both implants in them principles of action to work from, as faith and love, and a regard for his glory, and gives them grace and strength to work with, without which they can do nothing, but having these, can do all things: and all this is "of his good pleasure";
the word "his" not being in the original text, some have taken the liberty to ascribe this to the will of man; and so the Syriac version renders it, "both to will and to do that", דצבין אנתון, "which ye will", or according to your good will; but such a sense is both bad and senseless; for if they have a good will of themselves, what occasion is there for God to work one in them?
no; these internal operations of divine power and grace are not owing to the will of men, nor to any merits of theirs, or are what God is obliged to do, but what flow from his sovereign will and pleasure; who works when, where, and as he pleases, and that for his own glory; and who continues to do so in the hearts of his people; otherwise, notwithstanding the work of grace in them, they would find very little inclination to, and few and faint desires after spiritual things; and less strength to do what is spiritually good; but God of his good pleasure goes on working what is well pleasing in his sight.
Gill.
So, be gracious to Earny who disagrees with you.
No wonder there is such a strong aversion to anything "Calvinistic"
Get that?
J.
No one here wants to ADULTERATE the scriptures on purpose.
Of Free Will
1.God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor by any absolute
necessity of nature determined to good or evil.
Matt. 17:12. James 1:14. Deut. 30:19.
2.Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good, and
well pleasing to God;
but yet mutably, so that he might fall from it.
Eccles. 7:29. Gen. 1:26.
Gen. 2:16–17. Gen. 3:6.
3.Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good
accompanying salvation:
so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good,
and dead in
sin,
is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
Rom. 5:6. Rom. 8:7. John 15:5.
Rom. 3:10,12.
Eph. 2:1,5. Col. 2:13.
John 6:44,65. Eph. 2:2–5. 1 Cor. 2:14. Titus 3:3–5.
4.When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, He freeth him from his natural
bondage under sin;
and, by His grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is
spiritually good;
yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only,
will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
h Col. 1:13. John 8:34,36.
Phil. 2:13. Rom. 6:18,22.
Gal. 5:17. Rom. 7:15,18–19, 21, 23.
5.The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.
l Eph. 4:13. Heb. 12:23. 1 John 3:2. Jude 24.
Am I unable to make choices, for good, and for evil, as a born again Christian?
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
For it is God which worketh. The great hope and encouragement to the believer is that he is not left
to himself, but is energized to obey by God. to will and to do. God works in His children the willing and
the doing of His good pleasure. It is the responsibility of the believer to obey God. And God graciously
works in and empowers the believer to obey Him. While we are active in sanctification, it is God’s
work.
For it is God which worketh in you,.... Which is both an encouragement to persons conscious of their own weakness to work, as before exhorted to; see Hag_2:4; and a reason and argument for humility and meekness, and against pride and vain glory, since all we have, and do, is from God; and also points out the spring, principle, and foundation of all good works; namely, the grace of God wrought in the heart, which is an internal work, and purely the work of God: by this men become the workmanship of God, created unto good works, Eph_2:10, and are new men, and fitted for the performance of acts of righteousness, and true holiness; and this grace, which God works in them, is wrought in a powerful and efficacious manner, so as not to be frustrated and made void.
The word here used signifies an inward, powerful, and efficacious operation; and the "king's manuscript", mentioned by Grotius and Hammond, adds another word to it, which makes the sense still stronger, reading it thus, "which worketh in you", δυναμει, "by power"; not by moral persuasion, but by his own power, the power of his efficacious grace. The Alexandrian copy reads, δυναμεις, "powers", or "mighty works": God works in his people
both to will and to do of his good pleasure; God works in converted men a will to that which is spiritually good; which is to be understood, not of the formation of the natural faculty of the will; or of the preservation of it, and its natural liberty; or of the general motion of it to natural objects; nor of his influence on it in a providential way; but of the making of it good, and causing a willingness in it to that which is spiritually good.
Men have no will naturally to come to Christ, or to have him to reign over them; they have no desire, nor hungerings and thirstings after his righteousness and salvation; wherever there are any such inclinations and desires, they are wrought in men by God; who works upon the stubborn and inflexible will, and, without any force to it, makes the soul willing to be saved by Christ, and submit to his righteousness, and do his will; he sweetly and powerfully draws it with the cords of love to himself, and to his Son, and so influences it by his grace and spirit, and which he continues, that it freely wills everything spiritually good, and for the glory of God: and he works in them also to "do"; for there is sometimes in believers a will, when there wants a power of doing.
God therefore both implants in them principles of action to work from, as faith and love, and a regard for his glory, and gives them grace and strength to work with, without which they can do nothing, but having these, can do all things: and all this is "of his good pleasure";
the word "his" not being in the original text, some have taken the liberty to ascribe this to the will of man; and so the Syriac version renders it, "both to will and to do that", דצבין אנתון, "which ye will", or according to your good will; but such a sense is both bad and senseless; for if they have a good will of themselves, what occasion is there for God to work one in them?
no; these internal operations of divine power and grace are not owing to the will of men, nor to any merits of theirs, or are what God is obliged to do, but what flow from his sovereign will and pleasure; who works when, where, and as he pleases, and that for his own glory; and who continues to do so in the hearts of his people; otherwise, notwithstanding the work of grace in them, they would find very little inclination to, and few and faint desires after spiritual things; and less strength to do what is spiritually good; but God of his good pleasure goes on working what is well pleasing in his sight.
Gill.
So, be gracious to Earny who disagrees with you.
No wonder there is such a strong aversion to anything "Calvinistic"
Get that?
J.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Hi,
It's true that one cannot have faith in God without works and be saved, that means salvation is not by faith only but by faith AND obedient works. Faith is dead if it is void of obedient works in doing God's will, James 2.
Faith is a work, it's an obedient work (Jn 6:27; Mark 2:1-5; John 3:36; 1 Thess 1:3; Gal 5:6)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
The phrase "born of water" is a reference to water baptism and that is how it was understood for centuries until perverters as John Calvin came along.
"To what does the word “water” refer in John 3:5? For many centuries following the apostolic age, there was no controversy concerning the significance of water in this passage.
The “church fathers” clearly understood it to denote baptism. The testimony of Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Cyprian, etc., could be cited to establish this point.
In his monumental work, History of Infant Baptism, William Wall, a leading scholar in the Church of England, asserted that not a single writer of antiquity denied the identification of the “water” of John 3:5 with baptism. He suggested that John Calvin was the first to disassociate the two items, and that Calvin even conceded that his interpretation was “new” (1862, 443)."
What Does It Mean To Be a Born Again Christian?
Jesus said that unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. So, what does it mean to be born again? Let's explore the Bible for an answer to this important question.
christiancourier.com
The Bible is its own best commentary:
Jn 3:5---------------Spirit ++++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13----SPirit ++++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> into one body
Eph 5:26---------the word ++++++++++++washing of water >>>>>>> cleansed
Tts 3:5-----------Holy Ghost ++++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>>>>> saved
1 Pet 1:22-----Spirit +++++++++++++++obey the truth >>>>>>>>>>> purified
When Jn 3:5 is harmonized with other 'born again' verses, it is clear that water refers to water baptism. There is nothing in the context of Jn 3 that water means anything other than literal water.
Jn 3--------born of water and of the Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, then there is a definite connection between born of water/water baptism and doing the will of the Father. Since born of water refers to water baptism and God has commanded water baptism, then those who are obedient in DOING God's will in submitting to water baptism will be the ones to enter the kingdom.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 Pet 3:21
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Peter explains how the new birth takes place:
--not of corruptible seed means the physical birth has nothing to do with being born again
--but of incorruptible seed. The word of God is that incorruptible seed (Lk 8:11) by which one is born again. Those who obey God's instructions in the word by submitting to water baptism are then said to be begat through the word (James 1:18) begotten by the gospel (1 Cor 4:15) begotten by the word of God (1 Pet 1:23)
1 Pet 1:23
To be purified/saved/born again requires;
1) an OBEDIENCE to the truth. Man's role in the new birth is to be born of water, that is, to obey the truth, the word of God (Jn 17:17) in submitting to water baptism as instructed in the Spirit's word (Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48: Col 2:11-12; 1 Pet 3:21; etc).
2) the Spirit. The Spirit's role in the new birth is instructing men on how to be saved in His word. Hence those who OBEY that word are therefore begotten by the word as seen above. Man's role in the new birth is to be born of water, that is, to obey the truth, the word of God in submitting to water baptism as instructed in the SPirit's word.
Jn 3:5-------------Spirit ++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
1 Pet 1:22 -----Spirit +++++++++++obey the truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purified
1) truth can be obeyed
2) truth is the word of Christ, the gospel
3) obedience to the truth is required. Hence the new birth does not require an intellectual knowledge of certain facts about Christ but requires OBEDIENCE which is a response to a command as in Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48
4) therefore purification brought about by the new birth CANNOT take place apart from obedience to God's word, the truth.
5) this is why there is a definite connection between being born of water of Jn 3:5 and doing God's will of Mt 7:21:
Jn 3:5--------born of water and of the Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21-----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
It therefore is impossible to be born again and be purified apart from obedience to the truth in doing the will of God.
Last edited:
Johann
Well-Known Member
A rethink is in order....The phrase "born of water" is a reference to water baptism and that is how it was understood for centuries until perverters as John Calvin came along.
"To what does the word “water” refer in John 3:5? For many centuries following the apostolic age, there was no controversy concerning the significance of water in this passage.
The “church fathers” clearly understood it to denote baptism. The testimony of Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Cyprian, etc., could be cited to establish this point.
In his monumental work, History of Infant Baptism, William Wall, a leading scholar in the Church of England, asserted that not a single writer of antiquity denied the identification of the “water” of John 3:5 with baptism. He suggested that John Calvin was the first to disassociate the two items, and that Calvin even conceded that his interpretation was “new” (1862, 443)."
What Does It Mean To Be a Born Again Christian?
Jesus said that unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. So, what does it mean to be born again? Let's explore the Bible for an answer to this important question.
The Bible is its own best commentary:
Jn 3:5---------------Spirit ++++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13----SPirit ++++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> into one body
Eph 5:26---------the word ++++++++++++washing of water >>>>>>> cleansed
Tts 3:5-----------Holy Ghost ++++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>>>>> saved
1 Pet 1:22-----Spirit +++++++++++++++obey the truth >>>>>>>>>>> purified
When Jn 3:5 is harmonized with other 'born again' verses, it is clear that water refers to water baptism. There is nothing in the context of Jn 3 that water means anything other than literal water.
Jn 3--------born of water and of the Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, then there is a definite connection between born of water/water baptism and doing the will of the Father. Since born of water refers to water baptism and God has commanded water baptism, then those who are obedient in DOING God's will in submitting to water baptism will be the ones to enter the kingdom.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 Pet 3:21
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Peter explains how the new birth takes place:
--not of corruptible seed means the physical birth has nothing to do with being born again
--but of incorruptible seed. The word of God is that incorruptible seed (Lk 8:11) by which one is born again. Those who obey God's instructions in the word by submitting to water baptism are then said to be begat through the word (James 1:18) begotten by the gospel (1 Cor 4:15) begotten by the word of God (1 Pet 1:23)
1 Pet 1:23
To be purified/saved/born again requires;
1) an OBEDIENCE to the truth. Man's role in the new birth is to be born of water, that is, to obey the truth, the word of God (Jn 17:17) in submitting to water baptism as instructed in the Spirit's word (Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48: Col 2:11-12; 1 Pet 3:21; etc).
2) the Spirit. The Spirit's role in the new birth is instructing men on how to be saved in His word. Hence those who OBEY that word are therefore begotten by the word as seen above. Man's role in the new birth is to be born of water, that is, to obey the truth, the word of God in submitting to water baptism as instructed in the SPirit's word.
Jn 3:5-------------Spirit ++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
1 Pet 1:22 -----Spirit +++++++++++obey the truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purified
1) truth can be obeyed
2) truth is the word of Christ, the gospel
3) obedience to the truth is required. Hence the new birth does not require an intellectual knowledge of certain facts about Christ but requires OBEDIENCE which is a response to a command as in Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48
4) therefore purification brought about by the new birth CANNOT take place apart from obedience to God's word, the truth.
5) this is why there is a definite connection between being born of water of Jn 3:5 and doing God's will of Mt 7:21:
Jn 3:5--------born of water and of the Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21-----doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
It therefore is impossible to be born again and be purified apart from obedience to the truth in doing the will of God.
except a man be born of water and of the Spirit: these are, מלות שנות, "two words", which express the same thing, as Kimchi observes in many places in his commentaries, and signify the grace of the Spirit of God.
The Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions read, "the Holy Spirit", and so Nonnus; and who doubtless is intended:
by "water", is not meant material water, or baptismal water; for water baptism is never expressed by water only, without some additional word, which shows, that the ordinance of water baptism is intended: nor has baptism any regenerating influence in it; a person may be baptized, as Simon Magus was, and yet not born again; and it is so far from having any such virtue, that a person ought to be born again, before he is admitted to that ordinance:
and though submission to it is necessary, in order to a person's entrance into a Gospel church state; yet it is not necessary to the kingdom of heaven, or to eternal life and salvation: such a mistaken sense of this text, seems to have given the first birth and rise to infant baptism in the African churches; who taking the words in this bad sense, concluded their children must be baptized, or they could not be saved;
whereas by "water" is meant, in a figurative and metaphorical sense, the grace of God, as it is elsewhere; see Eze_36:25. Which is the moving cause of this new birth, and according to which God begets men again to, a lively hope, and that by which it is effected; for it is by the grace of God, and not by the power of man's free will, that any are regenerated, or made new creatures: and if Nicodemus was an officer in the temple, that took care to provide water at the feasts, as Dr. Lightfoot thinks, and as it should seem Nicodemon ben Gorion was, by the story before related of him;
See Gill on Joh_3:1; very pertinently does our Lord make mention of water, it being his own element: regeneration is sometimes ascribed to God the Father, as in 1Pe_1:3, and sometimes to the Son, 1Jn_2:29 and here to the Spirit, as in Tit_3:5, who convinces of sin, sanctifies, renews, works faith, and every other grace; begins and carries on the work of grace, unto perfection;
=================================
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God; and unless a man has this work of his wrought on his soul, as he will never understand divine and spiritual things, so he can have no right to Gospel ordinances, or things appertaining to the kingdom of God; nor can he be thought to have passed from death to life, and to have entered into an open state of grace, and the kingdom of it; or that living and dying so, he shall ever enter into the kingdom of heaven; for unless a man is regenerated, he is not born heir apparent to it; and without internal holiness, shall not enter into it, enjoy it, or see God.
Gill
Chrysostom, with whom the greater part of expounders agree, makes the word Water refer to baptism. The meaning would then be, that by baptism we enter into the kingdom of God, because in baptism we are regenerated by the Spirit of God. Hence arose the belief of the absolute necessity of baptism, in order to the hope of eternal life. But though we were to admit that Christ here speaks of baptism, yet we ought not to press his words so closely as to imagine that he confines salvation to the outward sign; but, on the contrary, he connects the Water with the Spirit, because under that visible symbol he attests and seals that newness of life which God alone produces in us by his Spirit.
[ It is true that, by neglecting baptism, we are excluded from salvation; and in this sense I acknowledge that it is necessary;]
=====^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I put this in brackets, since Calvin seems to contradict himself......
>>>but it is absurd to speak of the hope of salvation as confined to the sign. So far as relates to this passage, I cannot bring myself to believe that Christ speaks of baptism; for it would have been inappropriate.
We must always keep in remembrance the design of Christ, which we have already explained; namely, that he intended to exhort Nicodemus to newness of life, because he was not capable of receiving the Gospel, until he began to be a new man. It is, therefore, a simple statement, that we must be born again, in order that we may be the children of God, and that the Holy Spirit is the Author of this second birth.
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