Is believing/faith a work ?

[Kermos]

@Ernest T. Bass

(1) you ignore Philippians 2:12 relation to Philippians 2:13 where God works the will of believers to obey, (2) you think "good" fruit by you is caused by you, yet we Christians know our good fruit is caused by God because it is fruit of the Spirit, (3) you confuse what scripture states such as in Hebrews 3:12, and (4) you didn't know why the Old Testament was written. (post in this thread), and there is some about perseverance of the saints by God in the post, too.

the contradiction illuminated between "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 6:29) contrasted against "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) post in this thread exhibits your traditions of men fail (Matthew 15:9).

this post preludes the examination of your post in 5 segments:

• SEGMENT 1: your heart adulterates Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) into the words of Ernest T. Bass "you of the office of an Apostle did not choose Me, but I chose you for the office of an Apostle only".
• SEGMENT 2: Commands show who is of who or what, and people in Old Testament times were unable to keep the commandments for the Apostle Peter declared "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10).
• SEGMENT 3: God works believers repentance.
• SEGMENT 4: the first state of being for people is opposition against God.
• SEGMENT 5: you wickedly call God "insane", "cruel", "sadistic", and "evil" - EVEN "EVIL" - yet God loves the children of God soooooo much that God exclusively saves us incapable wretches from the wrath of God.

you are shown that "free-will" is scripturally a misnomer for autonomous will which is properly identified as "self-will" in scripture, and the Spiritual implications are explicit (post in this thread).

 

[CadyandZoe]

Belief is an act , something done

Not all doing is work.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The act of thinking is the mind working. A thought is a work.

See here, that Jesus refers to the mind working with "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37).

You and @brightfame52 are equivocating. Paul said we are justified by faith APART FROM works of the law.

 

[brightfame52]

Not all doing is work.

Im sorry, I wont take your word on that. It denies the plain meaning of the word.

 

[brightfame52]

You and @brightfame52 are equivocating. Paul said we are justified by faith APART FROM works of the law.

We are Justified by Faith apart from the Law. However if you turn around and make anything you do as an condition to get saved, you deny Justification by Faith apart from the Law, Works and etc.

 

[CadyandZoe]

We are Justified by Faith apart from the Law. However if you turn around and make anything you do as an condition to get saved, you deny Justification by Faith apart from the Law, Works and etc.

What this means is that faith is not a condition of being saved. Instead, faith is the evidence of being saved.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Im sorry, I wont take your word on that. It denies the plain meaning of the word.

Those who study the Bible long enough come to realize that the meaning of a word is not the dictionary definition, but rather, the meaning that the author intended. For instance, the apostle James argued that "works" were evidence of faith. "I'll show you my faith by my works." In that context, he cited the behavior of Abraham, the father of our faith.

God saw that Abraham had faith, and in view of his faith, God reckoned him to be "justified." Then God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son on the alter. But God did not allow him to go through with it, providing a ram for the sacrifice instead. In that context, God says, because you have done this, then "in you, all the nations shall be blessed." In other words, God responded to his act of faith, and James argues that Abraham demonstrated his faith through his works.

James has his finger on a very important concept, one that we often miss: the distinction between a dead faith and a living faith. Those who live according to the faith they believe, have a faith that is "alive", so to speak. Faith is the evidence of salvation, and deeds of faith are the evidence of faith. Faith is not something we do; faith is something we believe. If you want to say that believing a faith is a work, then okay.

But in the mind of both Paul and James, belief is an invisible work. Something that can't be seen. Deeds, on the other hand, are visible. We can't see whether or not a man has faith until his deeds show it.

For instance, suppose a man claims to know that a bomb will fall on the city tonight. His belief can only be measured one way: does the man leave town or does he sleep in his bed tonight?

This is an essential and critical question among those who claim to have faith. A man who claims that a bomb will drop on his house tonight, will surely get in the car and leave for the next city. Those who claim to have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ, will surely act in accordance with that set of beliefs.

 

[brightfame52]

What this means is that faith is not a condition of being saved. Instead, faith is the evidence of being saved.

Thats True. So if anyone says they are saved or Justified on the basis of their faith or believing, they promote works and deny grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Those who study the Bible long enough come to realize that the meaning of a word is not the dictionary definition, but rather, the meaning that the author intended. For instance, the apostle James argued that "works" were evidence of faith. "I'll show you my faith by my works." In that context, he cited the behavior of Abraham, the father of our faith.

God saw that Abraham had faith, and in view of his faith, God reckoned him to be "justified." Then God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son on the alter. But God did not allow him to go through with it, providing a ram for the sacrifice instead. In that context, God says, because you have done this, then "in you, all the nations shall be blessed." In other words, God responded to his act of faith, and James argues that Abraham demonstrated his faith through his works.

James has his finger on a very important concept, one that we often miss: the distinction between a dead faith and a living faith. Those who live according to the faith they believe, have a faith that is "alive", so to speak. Faith is the evidence of salvation, and deeds of faith are the evidence of faith. Faith is not something we do; faith is something we believe. If you want to say that believing a faith is a work, then okay.

But in the mind of both Paul and James, belief is an invisible work. Something that can't be seen. Deeds, on the other hand, are visible. We can't see whether or not a man has faith until his deeds show it.

For instance, suppose a man claims to know that a bomb will fall on the city tonight. His belief can only be measured one way: does the man leave town or does he sleep in his bed tonight?

This is an essential and critical question among those who claim to have faith. A man who claims that a bomb will drop on his house tonight, will surely get in the car and leave for the next city. Those who claim to have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ, will surely act in accordance with that set of beliefs.

You still promoting salvation, justification by your works, you deny grace.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You still promoting salvation, justification by your works, you deny grace.

No, not really. We are saved by grace. Faith is evidence that we are being saved.

 

[brightfame52]

No, not really. We are saved by grace. Faith is evidence that we are being saved.

You say that, but then contradict it. Thats unstable

 

[CadyandZoe]

You say that, but then contradict it. Thats unstable

How so? Explain?

 

[MatthewG]

If you condition your salvation on anything you did, its a works related salvation which is condemned in scripture friend.

Hello Brightfame52,

From my perspective for those whom willingly decide to do God's will do so in humbleness (James 4:7-10)of accepting what Jesus had done for them on the cross, which leads to dying to sin and living towards God (Romans 6:11), allowing God's spirit to help that individual in their life (1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 5:21-25). That person will realize that they can not do anything by the merit of their own flesh to be made right with God (1 Corinthians 1:29-31) because no flesh will glory before God. Those who glory though let them glory in the LORD, because it is the Lord Jesus Christ who becomes for us wisdom from God, including sanctification, redemption, and righteousness. Therefore I agree with you, there is no way a person can ever justify themselves before God - without Christ Jesus (John 14:6; Romans 5:1-10).

May the God of peace be with you.

 

[brightfame52]

How so? Explain?

I have already pointed it out.

 

[brightfame52]

mattG

From my perspective for those whom willingly decide to do God's will do so in humbleness (James 4:7-10)of accepting what Jesus had done for them on the cross,

May as well stop you right there, this is works.

 

[Kermos]

You and @brightfame52 are equivocating. Paul said we are justified by faith APART FROM works of the law.

Oh, so you think you can override the Word of God, Jesus Christ, with Paul's writing. That is a very sad state of affairs for you.

First, the King of the Kingdom of God says "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37), so thoughts are a work because Jesus shows this when He mentions "mind" (Matthew 22:37),

Faith/Belief is a work, but faith/belief is none of a work of man, but faith/belief in us Christians is an act of God because "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 6:29) which is the Word of God proclaiming that God causes faith/belief inside of us Christians.

Look carefully, CadyandZoe, and see that Jesus does not attribute faith/belief to man's control, so there is zero potential for we Christian's faith/belief to be "works of the law".

In Truth (John 14:6), Paul is in accord with Jesus the Lord; however, you are not.

 

[MatthewG]

@brightfame52,

Did not except a response like such, may I simply ask you this as a friend in Christ?
Would you stop Jesus?

Matthew 12:46-50​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

46 And while he was yet speaking to the multitudes, lo, his mother and brethren had stood without, seeking to speak to him,
47 and one said to him, `Lo, thy mother and thy brethren do stand without, seeking to speak to thee.'
48 And he answering said to him who spake to him, `Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?'
49 And having stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, he said, `Lo, my mother and my brethren!
50 for whoever may do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.'



How can we do the will of Jesus's Father except allowing and abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ to help one do such a thing? The only other response I have is that without works faith is dead, right? But what are works a Christian are to do (John 6:29; 1 John 3:23)? To have faith, and to have love. Love for God first above all others, and to love their neighbor as their self. Love is consider works; but it comes from Jesus Christ with-in a believer he deserves the credit, always, never ones own self.

May the God of peace be with, and maybe this helps you.

Matthew

 

[Kermos]

The Bible does say men are sinful, wicked but no verse says man is born sinful, wicked. If one accepts how the BIble defines sin then one must reject original sin, total depravity.

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me" (Psalm 51:5).

"The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth" (Psalm 58:3).

You lied. The following scripture was proclaimed to you in the post to which you replied, but in your self-will, you neglected or ignored the scripture.

Let's just ponder your two posts, even your prior post's last paragraph's first sentence, in contrast to the prophet Jeremiah's words of "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

Even your thoughts contrasted against the Lord Jesus Christ's words "No one is good except God alone " (Mark 10:18), so the only state of being for people is evil - and He includes being born evil because He gives no exception.

Further exemplifing your heart's written antimony toward the Word of God is your ignorance of where He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3); therefore, you cannot properly perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God unless God causes you to be born again. See here that a person not born again fails to perceive King Jesus in Righteousness, so the default condition of men is the state of evil - in other words - depraved (see Romans chapter 1).

 

[Gottservant]

Faith is the spirit of a work.

As a spirit of a work, it inspires us to work.

That is why every mature believer makes work a priority.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I have already pointed it out.

Can you reword it or explain it in greater detail? I don't understand.