No because nobody ever saw God.If you saw the son did you see the father?
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No because nobody ever saw God.If you saw the son did you see the father?
Jesus said…No because nobody ever saw God.
Your Biblical illiteracy reveals the problems of interpretation you are having.No because nobody ever saw God.
Here is the text.Please tell this to someone who is remotely interested in anything the “church fathers” wrote, especially in view of the fact that Christ and his apostles foretold that an “apostasy” would overtake Christianity like “weeds” deliberately sown by an enemy in a farmer’s “field” to destroy his crop. They said that it was “already at work” whilst the apostles were still alive, but that they acted as a restraint until it was time to let it grow……it did with a vengeance with the death of the last apostle John at the end of the first century….so anything written after than I take with many grains of salt, as we see “Christianity” degenerate into what eventually became “The Roman Catholic church.“….an ugly counterfeit that did not resemble what Christ began at all. All false Christianity grew from the trunk of that corrupted, power hungry ‘tree’. Christ has never set foot in that building or in any of the buildings that teach her lies. (Matt 7:21-23; Matt 15:7-9)
It means what the scriptures tell us…Seriously….what does this means? State your point so that all can read your reasoning….this is what debates are for…..
1 Timothy 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness : God was manifest in the flesh [as Jesus], justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV
Please understand that “God” is not mentioned in that verse……only the trinitarians translations will add it.It means what the scriptures tell us…
Manifest
Original Word: φανερόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phaneroó
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er-o'-o)
Definition: to make visible, make clear
Usage: I make clear (visible, manifest), make known.
You seem to believe if I buy a gallon of milk, in dark container and pour some in a clear glass that the milk in the clear glass is no longer milk, because it’s not in the dark container anymore… not understanding I poured the milk in the clear glass so you could see it is milk.
Ok… let’s look at it in a simplistic fashion.Please understand that “God” is not mentioned in that verse……only the trinitarians translations will add it.
It’s talking about “godliness” of which Jesus was the epitome in representing his God and Father.
Why are you concentrating on the wrong word? To make something manifest is to reveal it….it was revealed in Jesus that God was working through him by means of his guiding and empowering spirit.
Those who are born of the Holy Spirit are spirit.Do you beleive you are indwelt by Jesus? Spirit of Christ?
SeeOne need only study Bowman's Biblical Outline on the Trinity I posted a few times now.
Isa 6:1-10Your Biblical illiteracy reveals the problems of interpretation you are having.
Just Who... do you think the prophet Isaiah saw sitting upon His Throne with the following...
Isa 6:1-10
6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, "Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 Then said I, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then said I, "Here am I; send me."
9 And He said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
KJV
The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.Jesus said…
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
What do you make of the fact that Jesus says that true "worshipers" (proskynētai) will "worship" (proskynēsousin) the Father, and that this is the "worship" (prosekynēsen) that is offered Jesus?There you go again, making me think! I do find joy in your posts, as I love studying in hopes of having better understanding. You always make good points regarding scripture.
The answer is "YES," I am aware of the differences in worship, but you are the first I know to explain it that way. As you caused me to have to go look at scripture again (I enjoy that.), I'd like to point out a few passages that should be considered. First, we know that Yeshua was born as the Son of God, and that He came with multiple purposes as revealed in His High Priestly Prayer and many Old Testament prophets revealed. Yes, He was a man, but now He is a spirit. God gave Him authority on earth during His ministry and was given authority in Heaven and on Earth at His ascension. Perhaps we can see two different conditions based on His earthly work and now His heavenly work.
On Earth, Yeshua said:
Lk 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Jn 14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Jn 4:22–24 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
That being said, I find no passages where Yeshua asked for worship - only obedience.
There are passages that speak of those who worshipped him on Earth:
Mt 2:10–11 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him (using prosekynēsan}
Mt 14:30–33 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?” And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased. And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” (again prosekynēsan)
The words change when Paul spoke of worship:
Ro 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. (using latreian: to perform the sacred services (see ἐπιτελέω, 1), spoken of the priests, Hebrews 9:6; universally, of any worship of God, ἡ λογικη λατρεία, Romans 12:1)
Then we have the after-ascension times:
Php 2:8–11 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Seems here that the bowing for Yeshua is for the glory of the Father.
The most striking reference in the most confusing book, we find:
Re 5:6–12 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”
Does this indicate "worship?" It seems to me that it does.
When I say worthy to be praised, after being confined to English as I have learned it; there is wiggle room. I do NOT worship Yeshua as God because He is not. I have not replaced Yahweh with His Son.
Too long to copy and paste: print it and do the study: https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdfThere's no lie from me. It's not taught anywhere. Look at your post above. You're using pieces (in your case 4 different sections of Scripture) that are statements scattered all over the New and Old Testament.
There has never been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.
The book of Matthew states Jesus had the ability to forgive sins. It does not say anything about God.
Matthew 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,
This is the close to that.No because nobody ever saw God.