Right. - LOL
As if whether the Crusades happened or not was the decision of the laity.
/
"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
As if whether the Crusades happened or not was the decision of the laity.
/
The Church was the governing authority in the time period when the Crusades happened. People had no basis with which to refuse. The "Church" had all the authority, money, soldiers, and weaponry. They told people what "God wanted them to do" without ever referencing scriptures or anything other than what the Pope said. (Who had not read the Bible himself) It wasn't until Martin Luther discovered the Bible that it was made famous again. (Actually others had already discovered the scriptures but were effectively silenced due to having a lack of patronage)
Even after the English Reformation and breakaway creating the Church of England the Bible still was not commonly used in Churches on Sunday. The Book of Prayers and the Psalter was what was usually read and referenced the most. And that was the 1500's. The Bible did not become widely read until the Calvinists exiled in Geneva Switzerland (due to Bloody Mary's reign of terror) began printing and practically giving away (really just selling copies for roughly a weeks wages) the Geneva Bible to the common man. Never before had the Bible been available to the common man.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
That's because a lot of people sitting in a church who got saved by EMOTION from a fire breathing EVANGELIST who scared the HELL into them to say an UNBIBLICAL prayer "with every eye closed" cause they didn't have the 'REPENTANT heart before God' to even walk to the alter without being embarrassed. AND that charade made them THINK they were saved and had the Holy Spirit when they never did. They got a RELIGIOUS spirit and that deceptive thing has wrung too much of the nominal church 'out to dry'.
TRUE and every one's brain/mind/soul is brainwashed. Some of them by the HOLY SPIRIT, unfortunately some are by the unholy religious spirit.
I think Satan knows that he was MADE "a murderer" AND "the father of lies FROM THE BEGINING." He knows because he knows the BIBLE verse I just quoted 'better' than the church does. His MINISTRY from God isn't to "believe he is right and good", (did you make that up?). It's to make you suffer for the lies about God, that the church and the world taught you to believe was OK with GOD!
Do you want to know why PAUL turned people over to Satan???
1CO 5:5* you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Satan just may have SAVED more 'human spirits' than YOUR PASTOR.
1TI 1:20 among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may LEARN NOT TO BLASPHEME.
A lot of the church probably needs to be turned over to Satan 'by us' IMO. But if you DO, you better 'DAMMED well' make sure God agrees with your judgment.
That's how Satan killed Ananias and sapphira! YOU probably think, along with the church, that GOD the HOLY SPIRIT killed them.....right? I'm pretty sure that's what "the church" taught me. Just more BAD TEACHING IMO.
Last edited:
I find it a paradoxical thing to say that we need the church to teach "sound doctrine" to new believers. And this is said on top of the concept that we need nobody to teach us, because God will give us truth. How do the two statements come together to provide an understanding?
Not only that, how many have ever searched the scripture to determine which church doctrines are "sound?"
While leading bible studies, I covered hermeneutics right at the beginning. This was several years ago, but afterwards I found that very few within the class bothered to do it. They simply wanted me to "teach them." That put me in a quandary, as I never wanted anyone to say that they believe something with the only excuse being that I told them so. I am not a teacher per se; I was a discussion leader.
From that point on, I covered subjects (doctrines of the church) by providing scriptures that supported them AND the scriptures that conflicted with them. That is something I have never seen any church leader do before. Yes, I caused them to question their beliefs while explaining that they will be held responsible to Yahweh for their decision. I was hoping that would drive them to pray for the answer instead of falling back to a preacher to tell them what to believe.
Sadly, that failed. Peer pressure and group think carried the day.
People seem to want man to teach them and thereby avoid having to "search the scriptures" while considering the ancient Hebrew cultural norms and mindset. They still view scripture with western eyes in English and ignore the history of our bibles and the variation in translations. Man cannot force anyone to believe anything. It is an individual choice - which can have dire consequences.
Not only that, how many have ever searched the scripture to determine which church doctrines are "sound?"
While leading bible studies, I covered hermeneutics right at the beginning. This was several years ago, but afterwards I found that very few within the class bothered to do it. They simply wanted me to "teach them." That put me in a quandary, as I never wanted anyone to say that they believe something with the only excuse being that I told them so. I am not a teacher per se; I was a discussion leader.
From that point on, I covered subjects (doctrines of the church) by providing scriptures that supported them AND the scriptures that conflicted with them. That is something I have never seen any church leader do before. Yes, I caused them to question their beliefs while explaining that they will be held responsible to Yahweh for their decision. I was hoping that would drive them to pray for the answer instead of falling back to a preacher to tell them what to believe.
Sadly, that failed. Peer pressure and group think carried the day.
People seem to want man to teach them and thereby avoid having to "search the scriptures" while considering the ancient Hebrew cultural norms and mindset. They still view scripture with western eyes in English and ignore the history of our bibles and the variation in translations. Man cannot force anyone to believe anything. It is an individual choice - which can have dire consequences.
Great post, thanks.
People showed up for class with a cereal bowl instead of a shovel.
Secular educators had to inform us that: "You get out of it what you put into it."
/
I noticed a similar thing.
People showed up for class with a cereal bowl instead of a shovel.
Secular educators had to inform us that: "You get out of it what you put into it."
/
Curious about your thoughts on something that I have written often on the forum.
Which is usually met with furious rancor. - LOL
Here it is. (you may have seen it before)
"No one is saved by doctrine."
- If this is false, then what doctrine saves? (there is no consensus)
- If it is true, why do we get so concerned about "sound doctrine"? (whatever that means)
We seem to be more concerned about head knowledge and externals
than with heart knowledge and transformation.
/
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Mostly because wrong belief leads to wrong actions, and somebody could get hurt.
Doctrine can be so harmful as it is used as a divider between believers in the Messiah. Not only that, I have found that people defend church doctrines more than they do scripture.
We are not saved by doctrine. We are saved (as past tense) by faith which leads to submission.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Or maybe because the Greek words for "believe" and "faith" (verb πιστεύω, "pisteuoo" and noun πίστις "pistis") are cognates of each other, and Protestant theology is grounded in the sola fide concept:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
He that believeth .... shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:28)
For by grace are ye saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8a)
So, Protestant theology emphasizes that we ARE saved by what we believe. I'd put this one squarely on the backs of Luther and Calvin, but our Catholic brothers and sisters have a whole committee dedicated to defining doctrine.
Last edited:
Not everyone is cut out for serious, deep-dive, hermeneutics. The skill has to include the desire.
Music ministry doesn't do deep-dive hermeneutics studies...neither do children's ministers or food for homeless ministries.
It's not for everyone to be a scholar. It's just for a few. And one reason why I don't do it ALL the time is because it puts my head in the clouds to where I don't see where I'm needed to act in a fashion I'm uniquely talented to perform. I've missed great opportunities simply because I was thinking too much and not looking and moving my feet.
But people often have questions about God and concepts that appear in scriptures.
John 1:12 is a perfect example of a scripture that creates questions. On the surface it appears wrong...and it's the same in multiple translations....
That's why we are creating a curriculum to help people who have questions like this find the correct answers to their questions. The truth exists. We can help people find the answers.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
And exactly what planet do you live on?
How many music ministers are you friends with?
I knew one who tried to be a scholar...he failed miserably at it. He was great at music and leading choirs and directing the band players....but scripture studies? He was barely competent.
Yes, he had been to seminary...yes he knew scriptures. But deep-dive hermeneutics was not in his wheelhouse of talents.
Very talented man...
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 20,963
- 3,410
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Then you don't understand Catholic teaching because it doesn't fit your definition of "Gnostic" . . ..
Last edited:
Ummmm....
I think a Sherlock Holmes quote would be appropriate here. Something about seeing vx observing.
And yes, I'm quite aware of Catholic teachings. They do have some great theologies and policies. Others? Not so much.
Some of the Catholic stances I believe that the evangelicals could stand to adopt. They won't because they are Catholic (as if that had something to do with them being wrong or right) I'm all about truth and right.
And yes, Catholics do hold some Gnostic teachings...and gaining more from the "less than good popes".
Just saying.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 20,963
- 3,410
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Actually, a more accurate statement is that Gnostics hold to some Catholic teachings.
Catholics were here first.
There is some truth in just about every religious system - and that includes gnosticiam. That doesn't mean that those churches and faith traditions who share some of those truths with gnosticism are "partialy-Gnostic."
The Catholic Church doesn't share in ANY of the abeerant or heterodox beliefs of gnosticism.
I challenge you to list those that the Catholic Church does share with them . . .
The current blessing of homosexuals to be performed by priests.
Saying 3 "hail Marie's" and 4 "our fathers" provides contrition and atonement for sin's.
Should I continue?
Similar threads
