"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

[St. SteVen]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously.

Not to say that there isn't a need for religious training, but...
this approach leaves MUCH to be desired.

Saw this video of John MacArthur lamenting the sorry state of Evangelicalism in 2022. (video below)
Ligonier ministries had done a survey of Evangelicals. The findings, per MacArthur, were "shocking".

65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
Really? It seems as if the survey results TOLD you EXACTLY what they believe.
How can you claim that they "have absolutely no idea what they believe"?
If we reverse the percentages, what do we get? (hope my math is correct) - LOL

35% of Evangelicals DIS-agreed that everyone is born innocent.
45% DIS-agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
44% DIS-agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
67% DIS-agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

 

[Jack]

It's a HUGE mistake to go to church before you know the Bible! That's why we have thousands of churches that call themselves 'Christian' but have drastically different beliefs. Satan has been busy!

2 Corinthians 11
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Patrick1966]

As another said, if you want to hear false theology, go to church.

The truth is that NONE of us has a complete understanding, especially John MacArthur.

 

[St. SteVen]

As another said, if you want to hear false theology, go to church.

The truth is that NONE of us has a complete understanding, especially John MacArthur.

Right.
Begs the question... What is true, or false in theology?
- Is it true because we believe it?
- Is it false because we don't believe it?
- Is it true because we have heard of it?
- Is it false because we haven't heard of it?

MacArthur is actually putting a positive spin on being hated by the world.
Stating that Jesus told the disciples that the world would hate them because it hated him first.
Which is a biblical statement, but... (sigh) I don't think Jesus wants us to intentionally
make enemies of the world, and then quote that verse as an excuse.

 

[ScottA]

So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

We don't...and that is not the purpose of the local or greater church. The purpose is simply to spread the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and to equip the saints for good works.

 

[Hillsage]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously.

Not to say that there isn't a need for religious training, but...
this approach leaves MUCH to be desired.

Saw this video of John MacArthur lamenting the sorry state of Evangelicalism in 2022. (video below)
Ligonier ministries had done a survey of Evangelicals. The findings, per MacArthur, were "shocking".

65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
Really? It seems as if the survey results TOLD you EXACTLY what they believe.
How can you claim that they "have absolutely no idea what they believe"?
If we reverse the percentages, what do we get? (hope my math is correct) - LOL

35% of Evangelicals DIS-agreed that everyone is born innocent.
45% DIS-agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
44% DIS-agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
67% DIS-agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

Good question; and the bible gives us an answer.

1JO 2:27 but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

What you do need is "ears to hear and eyes to see".

 

[Patrick1966]

Good question; and the bible gives us an answer.

1JO 2:27 but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

What you do need is "ears to hear and eyes to see".

Do you believe that anyone fully understands everything in the Bible?

 

[ElieG12]

Jehovah's Witnesses worship what we know (John 4:22) and how we should worship (John4:23).

We have a Governing Body made up of people who are anointed with holy spirit and who are blessed by God as they investigate Bible truths. They share with all the witnesses of the world the conclusions of their investigations, as when in the first century some Christians discussed whether Gentile converts had to be circumcised or not.

Acts 15:1 Now some men came down from Ju·deʹa and began to teach the brothers: “Unless you get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 But after quite a bit of dissension and disputing by Paul and Barʹna·bas with them, it was arranged for Paul, Barʹna·bas, and some of the others to go up to the apostles and elders in Jerusalem regarding this issue. (...)
6 So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter. (...)
22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole congregation, decided to send chosen men from among them to Antioch, along with Paul and Barʹna·bas; they sent Judas who was called Barʹsab·bas and Silas, who were leading men among the brothers. 23 They wrote this and sent it through them:
“The apostles and the elders, your brothers, to those brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Ci·liʹcia who are from the nations: Greetings! 24 Since we have heard that some went out from among us and caused you trouble with what they have said, trying to subvert you, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
30 So when these men were dismissed, they went down to Antioch, and they gathered the whole group together and handed them the letter. 31 After reading it, they rejoiced over the encouragement.

Outside of Jehovah's Witnesses there is nothing like it. Christendom offers no consistent answer to any of the biblical questions because its leaders lack the holy spirit. God's holy spirit would never produce a conglomerate of religions with such contradictory and inconsistent ideas on biblical issues.

 

[Jack]

Oh my, another Watch Tower victim!

 

[marks]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Because God set it up that way.

Much love!

 

[Hillsage]

Do you believe that anyone fully understands everything in the Bible?

No I don’t. But I believe that verse is true.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

It's a HUGE mistake to go to church before you know the Bible! That's why we have thousands of churches that call themselves 'Christian' but have drastically different beliefs. Satan has been busy!

2 Corinthians 11
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

I agree with this statement, but unfortunately that is the way the system has evolved.

People simply do not know what they believe or should because even the mainstream churches are at odds with each other...

But there is also a problem with "knowing" the bible.

That can be seen even on forums such as this where so many debates over what should be crystal clear.... crop up.

 

[Behold]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

The church is each individual born again Christian.

Didn't you know?

Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

Each person born again, is the body of Christ, that is the "Church"...

"we are all members of HIS BODY">

See that?

Thats the CHURCH...

Here is the "Church"....>"The Temple of the HOLY Spirit".

Who is that?
Its all the BORN AGAIN.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Oh my, another Watch Tower victim!

Covid was a blessing because my door did not get knocked on once.... BUT, I did receive a long hand written letter from one of them.

But this is a great example of how many.... maybe even some of us can be swayed...

Jehovah's Witnesses started in 1870 when Charles Taze Russell led Bible studies in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The Jehovah's Witnesses movement came out of the Bible Student movement, also founded by Russell. When he started to dispute some traditional Christian views, the Jehovah's Witnesses were born.

Me thinks he might have been suffering from a little Ellen White or Joseph Smith envy?

In all seriousness though... all it takes is someone with the ability to take a verse and explain why it does not say what is commonly thought.

And a group of people who are looking for someone they consider to be learned enough to explain what they
just don't understand....or cannot comprehend.


And from his claim to understanding the wrongs in the bible comes Tazes understanding

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/jehovah-witness-beliefs/

Death. People who die pass out of existence. (Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) They do not suffer in a fiery hell of torment.
God will bring billions back from death by means of a resurrection. (Acts 24:15) However, those who refuse to learn God’s ways after being raised to life will be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection.—Revelation 20:14, 15.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Because God set it up that way.

Much love!

Hello Marks,

Tell me which church it is that God set up?

You posted
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

One could interpret that that the joints are assorted churches with their individual beliefs.

One thing certain... I can bet that the larger portion of people posting here have had a immersed baptism, after they came to their personal beliefs.... because that is what their churches taught, primarily because of Mark 16:16. Even when there is no proof that Mark wrote beyond Mark 16:8. It IS highly debated to this day.

Then you have those churches that are happy with their baby sprinklings later confirming those into their respective churches about the age of 13 and accountability.

Why would God want churches in error teaching His children wrongly. Is it that the whole balances out the
errors along the way?

I say it is imperative that one know something of the bible before allowing a flesh and blood mortal to offer what they feel to be correct so you can rightly divide the word of God for yourself.

Just look what happens when people dont... You get those Ellen Whites, and Joseph Smiths, and even David Koreshs.

Heck, even the Catholics do not agree.... Roman Catholics are at odd with the Eastern Orthodox.....

The Eastern Orthodox had claimed to be the one , true, church.... Something I am sure all RCC members here
will argue against.... (Be a good subject for a thread of its own)

The Catholic Church was initially considered by the Orthodox Church to be heretical, but as time passed and the term began to have strong negative connotations, the term was changed to heterodox, at least in official discourses. However, hardliners are still using the term heretic. In what matters?

So if God set this up this way.... ?????

 

[JohnDB]

John McArthur is a Calvinist....nuff said there.

And to somehow claim that the scriptures are literally true in every instance is the usual Calvinist's misunderstanding of the use of language in the scriptures.
Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Early Latin are absolutely full of metaphors and similies and idiomatic expressions. Hebrew is a metaphoric language all on its own....you can't make a metaphoric language conform to English standards...especially when there are no equivalents in language or nuances the original language provides.

Adam is a title as well as a proper name...and there was a literal Adam....but that doesn't mean that every single nuance of his life was detailed out in scriptures in a completely detailed description....much is glossed over in order that we do not lose the crux of the lessons.
Scriptures are not a history book or a manual on how to build a universe....the scriptures contain lessons and concepts that we need to understand to have a proper relationship with God.

As such....
It is rather interesting that pastor John is using hate farming and divisiveness as a method of teaching....using explosive and outrageous statements to "call the flock" to piety and scholarship. Not exactly a great idea IMHO. But whatever....his calling and not mine.

 

[St. SteVen]

all it takes is someone with the ability to take a verse and explain why it does not say what is commonly thought.

Does that assume that the status quo is always correct?

 

[marks]

Outside of Jehovah's Witnesses there is nothing like it. Christendom offers no consistent answer to any of the biblical questions because its leaders lack the holy spirit. God's holy spirit would never produce a conglomerate of religions with such contradictory and inconsistent ideas on biblical issues.

Do you believe the archangel Michael became Jesus and turned back into Michael after the "resurrection"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

John McArthur is a Calvinist....nuff said there.

And to somehow claim that the scriptures are literally true in every instance is the usual Calvinist's misunderstanding of the use of language in the scriptures.
Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Early Latin are absolutely full of metaphors and similies and idiomatic expressions. Hebrew is a metaphoric language all on its own....you can't make a metaphoric language conform to English standards...especially when there are no equivalents in language or nuances the original language provides.

Adam is a title as well as a proper name...and there was a literal Adam....but that doesn't mean that every single nuance of his life was detailed out in scriptures in a completely detailed description....much is glossed over in order that we do not lose the crux of the lessons.
Scriptures are not a history book or a manual on how to build a universe....the scriptures contain lessons and concepts that we need to understand to have a proper relationship with God.

As such....
It is rather interesting that pastor John is using hate farming and divisiveness as a method of teaching....using explosive and outrageous statements to "call the flock" to piety and scholarship. Not exactly a great idea IMHO. But whatever....his calling and not mine.

Have you listened to him much?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously.

Not to say that there isn't a need for religious training, but...
this approach leaves MUCH to be desired.

Saw this video of John MacArthur lamenting the sorry state of Evangelicalism in 2022. (video below)
Ligonier ministries had done a survey of Evangelicals. The findings, per MacArthur, were "shocking".

65% of Evangelicals agreed that everyone is born innocent.
55% agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
56% agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
43% agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

"Evangelicals have absolutely no idea what they believe." - John MacArthur
Really? It seems as if the survey results TOLD you EXACTLY what they believe.
How can you claim that they "have absolutely no idea what they believe"?
If we reverse the percentages, what do we get? (hope my math is correct) - LOL

35% of Evangelicals DIS-agreed that everyone is born innocent.
45% DIS-agreed that the Bible is not literally true.
44% DIS-agreed that God accepts worship from all religions.
67% DIS-agreed that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God.

So here's the BIG question...
Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?

That's how religious propaganda gets promoted. Smooth words of deception...that the carnal religious mind can relish in.

And the people loved it that way. They prefer to be fooled than to be challenged by the truth. It has been said that it is easier to deceive a person than get them to understand the truth. The devil goes around the world twice while the truth is still putting its pants on.

For many...hearing the truth is too late. All their critical thinking and logic has been thrown out as "carnal"...whereas Jesus and Paul appealed to the logic and reasoning of those they preached to.

Ideologues use their dogmatic understanding as a filter...no longer able to hear anything outside of their current beliefs.

Jesus spoke well when He said...Hearing they will not listen.

I marvel all the time on how the hypocrites can't understand the simplest kingdom principle.

May God be praised.