"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

[MatthewG]

Above all else the heart is the most deceitful.

Yes that is true, and when truth is evident its normal for us as human to be fearful of it, even angry, and dismiss it to some extent.

We might mistake our hearts desires for the Holy Spirit....it's happened way too often to be leaning on the Holy Spirit solely for doctrines.

It can happen. A person whom I tend to listen to from time to time makes it apparent that this school is a proving ground, which is you and God. The holy spirit is suppose to direct us into the light of the LORD, and his ways though we can not fully understand or comprehend them ourselves. All that one can find out is what the holy spirit produces and then go from there. At least it is a start. But when it comes to subjection in the bible, a person who desires to seek and study those things out will come to know more about the LORD GOD, than they originally thought.

My progress of going through Gods wrath was dismal. However going through it, I seen where Gods wrath / anger would not last forever, that was a relief to been seen cause after first, it was not looking so good. I had to really put myself in the ringer of subjectively going line by line, and using all the scriptures pertaining to that subject in order to get my answer.

Another point he makes is that, when it comes down to a person obeying the commandment, such as Love God first, and love your neighbor as yourself, it is not something that coresides by your feelings if you feel like doing that or not. It's doing that regardless of who the person is, or the circumstances. Sometimes you have to call the law in certain situations, YAhavah can work through these things, and perhaps even bring a person to him, if their heart is willingly, and they are ready to see and listen.

So....
My wife and I are working on a curriculum project of how to go about the process of hermeneutics. We are not going to teach any doctrines whatsoever. (Well maybe a few because it's impossible not to with scriptures and adequately explain the proper process)

That is good! My encouragement is simply going verse by verse, and perhaps start with Matthew! And use what you needed to as you go along to make a strong case as you are going along making your videos for people. People will watch and see, and desire to know more about these things. A good historical narrative to an opening Gospel will also be helpful in your journey. (Matthews Gospel Introduction) for example, there is a good study bible I have which has those introductions one is a Thompson Chain Reference (its more of an outline guide), and my study bible which is a holman study bible NKJV edition has some information concerning introductions. That helps siginifically keeping everything under a tight wrap when going about spreading the gospel like that. Hope the best for you and your wife on this process!

Because Guess what if you are doing it for the glory of God, and not yourself, it will be a blessing!

We just started this past week with the introduction of background as to why it's necessary. And how flat reading is not really a great idea. (Many on this site would heavily disagree because of the destruction of their beliefs)

DONT CARE ABOUT THAT! CARE ABOUT TRUTH! LEAN ON GOD AND TRUST HIM OVER ALL ELSE FRIEND.

Im a person who believes fully in the return of the Lord, and his victory over all things! The hardest thing to do for me will be Revelation if I ever get back into the swing of the way you and your wife are going now, again as I continue to live a life off drugs!

Idk why I desired to write it just came about to write to you.

 

[Phil .]

Directly experiencing beliefs is suffering.
Believing direct experience is liberation.

Aligning Thought With Feeling — Actuality Of Being

www.actualityofbeing.com

 

[JohnDB]

Yes that is true, and when truth is evident its normal for us as human to be fearful of it, even angry, and dismiss it to some extent.

It can happen. A person whom I tend to listen to from time to time makes it apparent that this school is a proving ground, which is you and God. The holy spirit is suppose to direct us into the light of the LORD, and his ways though we can not fully understand or comprehend them ourselves. All that one can find out is what the holy spirit produces and then go from there. At least it is a start. But when it comes to subjection in the bible, a person who desires to seek and study those things out will come to know more about the LORD GOD, than they originally thought.

My progress of going through Gods wrath was dismal. However going through it, I seen where Gods wrath / anger would not last forever, that was a relief to been seen cause after first, it was not looking so good. I had to really put myself in the ringer of subjectively going line by line, and using all the scriptures pertaining to that subject in order to get my answer.

Another point he makes is that, when it comes down to a person obeying the commandment, such as Love God first, and love your neighbor as yourself, it is not something that coresides by your feelings if you feel like doing that or not. It's doing that regardless of who the person is, or the circumstances. Sometimes you have to call the law in certain situations, YAhavah can work through these things, and perhaps even bring a person to him, if their heart is willingly, and they are ready to see and listen.

That is good! My encouragement is simply going verse by verse, and perhaps start with Matthew! And use what you needed to as you go along to make a strong case as you are going along making your videos for people. People will watch and see, and desire to know more about these things. A good historical narrative to an opening Gospel will also be helpful in your journey. (Matthews Gospel Introduction) for example, there is a good study bible I have which has those introductions one is a Thompson Chain Reference (its more of an outline guide), and my study bible which is a holman study bible NKJV edition has some information concerning introductions. That helps siginifically keeping everything under a tight wrap when going about spreading the gospel like that. Hope the best for you and your wife on this process!

Because Guess what if you are doing it for the glory of God, and not yourself, it will be a blessing!

DONT CARE ABOUT THAT! CARE ABOUT TRUTH! LEAN ON GOD AND TRUST HIM OVER ALL ELSE FRIEND.

Im a person who believes fully in the return of the Lord, and his victory over all things! The hardest thing to do for me will be Revelation if I ever get back into the swing of the way you and your wife are going now, again as I continue to live a life off drugs!

Idk why I desired to write it just came about to write to you.

We are completely uninterested in making videos. I have a face for radio and a voice perfectly designed for being silenced. (People pay me money not to sing)

So we plan on creating a written curriculum with lesson plans for others to follow and teach to others. Because it's really not about us...it IS all about God and people learning to understand who God is. I can tell someone but they really don't know until they learn it for themselves.
When people learn it for themselves...they own it much better than anything anyone else tells them.

Human nature is such that there are people that seem to attract others(I'm not one of them) ...and if we get one of these sorts to teach the curriculum we are creating....what could the result become? It may not become much in the grand scheme of things...but we feel it's a start to encourage Biblical scholarship in our area.

 

[MatthewG]

We are completely uninterested in making videos. I have a face for radio and a voice perfectly designed for being silenced. (People pay me money not to sing)

So we plan on creating a written curriculum with lesson plans for others to follow and teach to others. Because it's really not about us...it IS all about God and people learning to understand who God is. I can tell someone but they really don't know until they learn it for themselves.
When people learn it for themselves...they own it much better than anything anyone else tells them.

Human nature is such that there are people that seem to attract others(I'm not one of them) ...and if we get one of these sorts to teach the curriculum we are creating....what could the result become? It may not become much in the grand scheme of things...but we feel it's a start to encourage Biblical scholarship in our area.

All hats off to you. That’s facts. I wouldn’t have learned as much if I wasn’t learning what the Bible had said every Wednesday and Sunday by someone who was teaching it. Helps a lot! I did go in and read the Gospels first hand before going to listen to others though, but sometimes people start that way as well as the other.

 

[JohnDB]

All hats off to you. That’s facts. I wouldn’t have learned as much if I wasn’t learning what the Bible had said every Wednesday and Sunday by someone who was teaching it. Helps a lot! I did go in and read the Gospels first hand before going to listen to others though, but sometimes people start that way as well as the other.

For whatever reason we feel like people don't seem to know how to even approach the issue of teaching themselves on any subject anymore. How to filter and assemble the information available in this "information age". When I went to school that was the subject most enforced in addition to the subject matter itself. Research papers were constant and ongoing every year beginning in what is today referred to as middle school. My wife (who went to school after I finished) got a quarter of that education around self-learning but she did get her masters in educational instruction. So she learned a lot about how to create curriculum and lesson plans. Together I think we got a shot at creating a good lesson plan on a sorely needed subject.

I don't know the future or what affect this will have...but maybe with some luck it will lead to something good. My personal opinion is that bye and large it will fall flat. People seem to glom onto "sounde byte" theologies way too readily. Where someone else does the work for them. Pastors and YouTubers make it too easy for the masses to get the "cliff note" version of their theologies. (Which leads them to destruction).

Today, we clearly have a resurgence of gnosticism....the Methodist church is unbelievably in a split over this very subject. (They became named "Methodists" from their proscribed method of studying the scriptures....I know, right?) The Catholic Church is hot on their heels with the exact same issue of gnosticism. Non-denominational churches are often gnostic....Disciples of Christ are all the way deep into gnostic teachings; AOG, COC, and even Reformed churches aren't exactly preaching solidly against gnosticism either.

Someone somewhere needs to help....and maybe the power of God won't be denied completely. We have many people holding firm...but their explanations as to why and how they believe their doctrines are becoming weaker. There is a fix. (Cutting straight the gospel) We aim to help with that.
Let's put it this way....I can name the exact scriptures, people, and pointed stories of how God is against abortion...in detail. In the thread discussing "snowflake babies" only one incomplete scripture reference is made when there are others that can perfectly complete the concept with the tale of the abortionist in scripture. Nobody seems to know who the abortionist in scripture is, what he did, or what became of him.

That's a problem.

 

[MatthewG]

For whatever reason we feel like people don't seem to know how to even approach the issue of teaching themselves on any subject anymore. How to filter and assemble the information available in this "information age". When I went to school that was the subject most enforced in addition to the subject matter itself. Research papers were constant and ongoing every year beginning in what is today referred to as middle school. My wife (who went to school after I finished) got a quarter of that education around self-learning but she did get her masters in educational instruction. So she learned a lot about how to create curriculum and lesson plans. Together I think we got a shot at creating a good lesson plan on a sorely needed subject.

Being 33 years old now today in 2024, in school researching and doing work was not really for me personally. It was only in 2016, when my thoughts became solidified on why is my heart so dark? And my wondering of why is that only Jesus was the one to said to heal? That got me to go and read the Gospels from there the encouragement from a respected teacher of mine, always encouraged to seek and search for oneself what is true and question all the traditions of man, and even question ones pastors, and to question and challenge oneself.

That helped a lot to have that type of encouragement, and to continue to love even others who may differ with you when you make your own changes allowing it to be Yahavah to make your heart change for the better which the Spirit now helps one to love. With your wifes education youll be able to do something.

I dont care whether video or if it is just a podcast you put on youtube, if you are doing it for the LORD there will be a reward that will come back to you. Your focus on it failing should be a good thing. Let it fail, but do it right in the sight of the LORD, perhaps even income could come, maybe a book writing or publishing, who knows, but as long as it is the intention to grow and help people learn knowledge even of the first century churches and how they believed, or how one may see a scripture another in comparsion with what you think by the spirit, or perhaps you got nothing there that can be added.

That is what I watched my teacher do for a long time, in the face of change and the face of failure, the continuing to look towards Yahavah, who gave you your life and take your life away any day.

I don't know the future or what affect this will have...but maybe with some luck it will lead to something good. My personal opinion is that bye and large it will fall flat. People seem to glom onto "sounde byte" theologies way too readily. Where someone else does the work for them. Pastors and YouTubers make it too easy for the masses to get the "cliff note" version of their theologies. (Which leads them to destruction).

Sometimes it may take an hour to explain. Some views may come, who knows. It's up to you and how you decide to go about it freely.

Today, we clearly have a resurgence of gnosticism....the Methodist church is unbelievably in a split over this very subject. (They became named "Methodists" from their proscribed method of studying the scriptures....I know, right?) The Catholic Church is hot on their heels with the exact same issue of gnosticism. Non-denominational churches are often gnostic....Disciples of Christ are all the way deep into gnostic teachings; AOG, COC, and even Reformed churches aren't exactly preaching solidly against gnosticism either.

Idk what all that means but gnosticism reminds me of that "Jesus wasnt really real bro" or something. Not sure. Evangelical, or going and being taught in private school, or "christian private school" learning the preconceived notions of others, by others, traditions etc.

Someone somewhere needs to help....and maybe the power of God won't be denied completely.

There ya go.

We have many people holding firm...but their explanations as to why and how they believe their doctrines are becoming weaker. There is a fix. (Cutting straight the gospel) We aim to help with that.

Always gets into the heart of the matter.

Let's put it this way....I can name the exact scriptures, people, and pointed stories of how God is against abortion...in detail.

I dont believe that God desires for us to murder. It's amazing that Jesus died for all of our sins, and while people make decisions they have to decide whether or not they are going to believe that God does indeed forgive them, and desires for the death, burial, and resurrection of new spiritual birth for all of his people to come to know his Son.

In the thread discussing "snowflake babies" only one incomplete scripture reference is made when there are others that can perfectly complete the concept with the tale of the abortionist in scripture. Nobody seems to know who the abortionist in scripture is, what he did, or what became of him.

I remember a lady admitting that she had an abortion, but later on in life came to the LORD, sometimes stories are just like this.

That's a problem.

There are many problems with the world today, and it comes to a point of just having our mind renewed in Christ.

 

[Hillsage]

Great post, thanks!

I am struck by the irony that we need to be TOLD what we believe. Say what?

Does a new believer need to be instructed in the ways of church and faith? Yes, of course.
Should they be TOLD what they believe? No. This is what they need to discover.
But the church doesn't trust believers to do this on their own. And perhaps for good reasons.
I won't abide it personally.

/

I don't know Steven, that sounds a bit too unbiblical IMO. Babes in Christ need the milk of the word of TRUTH IMO. Just getting indoctrinated into "the ways of church and faith"???? Unpack just what you mean by 'that'. "the ways" of the church I just left 6 months ago are BAD. And the "faith" in the EVANGELIST who leads as the PASTOR of that mess has plenty of bad doctrine too.
So how do you personally 'walk' what you just shared.

 

[Phil .]

One who inspects and introspects has no use for beliefs.

 

[Hillsage]

I suppose some churches teach that you know nothing and that the leaders will instruct the people. When the people aren't part of that process then it becomes cult like.

I thiink the definition of a 'cult' is different. I think it is when all the 'congregation' looks to the ONE who is pastor over them all. And the ALL think the pastor hears God for them ALL. Just like when cult leader JIM JONES told his 918 sheep to drink the Kool Aid and die.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not even close to what I said or insinuated. You have made a completely false accusation. That's stemming from anything but the Holy Spirit! You need to apologize immediately!

Wait...
You ask for an apology and then accuse me of what?
A "false accusation... stemming from anything but the Holy Spirit!"

And then you wrote this:

Well, if you knew scripture you would know that I quoted it almost perfectly.

And another one too. Nice.

And you have yet to explain yourself.
I won't hold my breath.



/

 

[Hillsage]

Above all else the heart is the most deceitful.

We might mistake our hearts desires for the Holy Spirit....it's happened way too often to be leaning on the Holy Spirit solely for doctrines.

So....
My wife and I are working on a curriculum project of how to go about the process of hermeneutics. We are not going to teach any doctrines whatsoever. (Well maybe a few because it's impossible not to with scriptures and adequately explain the proper process)

We just started this past week with the introduction of background as to why it's necessary. And how flat reading is not really a great idea. (Many on this site would heavily disagree because of the destruction of their beliefs)

It is sad that a poorly translated OT verse still stands as a litmus for the NT believers.

MAT 12:34 You brood of vipers! how can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil.

DEU 30:14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.

1KI 2:4 that the LORD may establish his word which he spoke concerning me, saying, 'If your sons take heed to their way, to walk before me in faithfulness with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail you a man on the throne of Israel.'

PSA 119:11 I have laid up thy word in my heart, that I might not sin against thee.


The problem today in the 'Mixed TREASURE church' with it's many many false doctrines being taught as 'the truth', are simply putting BAD TREASURE in the hearts of those who've given their heart to leaders who have given us a church today which has proven to the world how carnally minded the 'IMPURE and SPOTTED the bride of Christ has become.

I don't know if it is time for a REVIVAL of the church....or just a burial and RESURRECTION. The old wineskin church can never fulfill the calling of the last days church IMO.

 

[Hillsage]

One who inspects and introspects has no use for beliefs.

are we all supposed to GUESS who you are "inspecting" with your comment?

Or should I just think me, because you posted 5 minutes after my post?

 

[St. SteVen]

And by leaning solely upon what we think is the Holy Spirit is way too often just our sinful desires telling us that we are "good people" when the opposite is true.

Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and follow. What do you say? (follow the church, you can't trust the Spirit)

More crimes against humanity have been perpetrated in God's name than any other set of ideals. How do you supposed that happened or is happening today?

How do I suppose that happened? People following the church instead of God.
You've heard of the Crusades, right? Led by the Spirit, or led by the church?

/

 

[Phil .]

are we all supposed to GUESS who you are "inspecting" with your comment?

Or should I just think me, because you posted 5 minutes after my post?

That there is a you, thinkers, and that you could think yourself are beliefs, which can be dispelled by inspection & introspection.

This is the very confusion the thread title points to. None of that is known or true, it’s all beliefs believed.

 

[JohnDB]

Jesus said his sheep hear his voice and follow. What do you say? (follow the church, you can't trust the Spirit)


How do I suppose that happened? People following the church instead of God.
You've heard of the Crusades, right? Led by the Spirit, or led by the church?

/

The crusades were followed by another important time period in history....the Reformation. Where people began actually reading the scriptures once again for themselves.
That stopped the crusades from ever happening again. Strange how that worked isn't it?

 

[St. SteVen]

That stopped the crusades from ever happening again. Strange how that worked isn't it?

Are you claiming that the sheep (believers) stopped hearing Jesus' voice due to Bible availability after the Reformation?

John 10:27 NIV
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

/

 

[JohnDB]

Being 33 years old now today in 2024, in school researching and doing work was not really for me personally. It was only in 2016, when my thoughts became solidified on why is my heart so dark? And my wondering of why is that only Jesus was the one to said to heal? That got me to go and read the Gospels from there the encouragement from a respected teacher of mine, always encouraged to seek and search for oneself what is true and question all the traditions of man, and even question ones pastors, and to question and challenge oneself.

That helped a lot to have that type of encouragement, and to continue to love even others who may differ with you when you make your own changes allowing it to be Yahavah to make your heart change for the better which the Spirit now helps one to love. With your wifes education youll be able to do something.

I dont care whether video or if it is just a podcast you put on youtube, if you are doing it for the LORD there will be a reward that will come back to you. Your focus on it failing should be a good thing. Let it fail, but do it right in the sight of the LORD, perhaps even income could come, maybe a book writing or publishing, who knows, but as long as it is the intention to grow and help people learn knowledge even of the first century churches and how they believed, or how one may see a scripture another in comparsion with what you think by the spirit, or perhaps you got nothing there that can be added.

That is what I watched my teacher do for a long time, in the face of change and the face of failure, the continuing to look towards Yahavah, who gave you your life and take your life away any day.

Sometimes it may take an hour to explain. Some views may come, who knows. It's up to you and how you decide to go about it freely.

Idk what all that means but gnosticism reminds me of that "Jesus wasnt really real bro" or something. Not sure. Evangelical, or going and being taught in private school, or "christian private school" learning the preconceived notions of others, by others, traditions etc.

There ya go.

Always gets into the heart of the matter.

I dont believe that God desires for us to murder. It's amazing that Jesus died for all of our sins, and while people make decisions they have to decide whether or not they are going to believe that God does indeed forgive them, and desires for the death, burial, and resurrection of new spiritual birth for all of his people to come to know his Son.

I remember a lady admitting that she had an abortion, but later on in life came to the LORD, sometimes stories are just like this.

There are many problems with the world today, and it comes to a point of just having our mind renewed in Christ.

Gnosticism is a teaching that is essentially where your "spirit/Soul" is separate from your physical flesh. What happens is that you are allowed all sins but since you feel that you are still a Christian you are no matter what sins or sinful lifestyles you wish to perform or advocate for. You are a Christian because you have the knowledge of Christ...hence the name Gnosticism which is a ancient term referring to "knowledge".

The plan for the course is not to publish on any social media platform...just paper. And it's going to require 6-8 weeks for people to try things out for themselves and get feedback so they can know they are performing correctly.
These are adults...they aren't children who absorb lots of information quickly. So we will be going at "ludicrous speed" (Spaceballs reference ) for what most adults think.

My wife and I are disagreeing about how long this course will take. I think 8 weeks is too long...she thinks it's too fast.
Personally I tend to think that anything requiring more than two hours of homework is too much. 30 minutes for most people is pushing the envelope. Then there's the difficult stuff...stuff that isn't as readily accessible through internet searches for most people. Things like modern scripture research studies made public (there's a lot not public due to it bruising pet theologies and private funding) and then the language studies which include names....

This stuff is going to require time and lengthy discussions. "How to vet sources" & "How to filter out bias from sources" and people will get upset when they don't do it right because they have their own bias.
(The heathen sources are usually the most unbiased and television preachers are NOT a qualified source)
Then there's the anthropologist....uggghhhh
The "artists" or poetry analysists....even more ugggghhhhh.

But I want to skip some practice and let them figure it out on their own....

 

[BreadOfLife]

Today, we clearly have a resurgence of gnosticism....the Methodist church is unbelievably in a split over this very subject. (They became named "Methodists" from their proscribed method of studying the scriptures....I know, right?) The Catholic Church is hot on their heels with the exact same issue of gnosticism. Non-denominational churches are often gnostic....Disciples of Christ are all the way deep into gnostic teachings; AOG, COC, and even Reformed churches aren't exactly preaching solidly against gnosticism either.

What exactly is "gnostic" about the Catholic Church?

 

[JohnDB]

Are you claiming that the sheep (believers) stopped hearing Jesus' voice due to Bible availability after the Reformation?

John 10:27 NIV
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

/

No,
I suggested that the Crusades stopped happening because all those capable of reading began to read the Bible which had been "lost" or forgotten for centuries before the time of the crusades.

 

[JohnDB]

What exactly is "gnostic" about the Catholic Church?

Ummmm....I explained already what the essence of the teachings are. I'll let you figure it out for yourself.