"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed

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BreadOfLife

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The current blessing of homosexuals to be performed by priests.

Saying 3 "hail Marie's" and 4 "our fathers" provides contrition and atonement for sin's.
WRONG on BOTH counts.

The blessing that the Pope has approved is not a blessing on the couple.
It is a blessing on each individual - with a plea for them to returm to the fullness of the faith by eventually reoiuncing their lifestyle.

Prayers or actions assigned as penance after confession are NOT provide contrition OR atonement. They are meditations. Sometimes you are asked to DO something like read an article pertaining to a particular type of sin - or making an extra effort to get along with your wife, etc. The sin has already been forgiven prior to any prayers or actions of penance.

Should I continue?
Yes, perhaps you should . . .
 

JohnDB

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WRONG on BOTH counts.

The blessing that the Pope has approved is not a blessing on the couple.
It is a blessing on each individual - with a plea for them to returm to the fullness of the faith by eventually reoiuncing their lifestyle.

Prayers or actions assigned as penance after confession are NOT provide contrition OR atonement. They are meditations. Sometimes you are asked to DO something like read an article pertaining to a particular type of sin - or making an extra effort to get along with your wife, etc. The sin has already been forgiven prior to any prayers or actions of penance.


Yes, perhaps you should . . .

Contrition only comes by repentance and a request for forgiveness.

And a blessing on an individual who does not repent of obvious known sins but instead boasts, promotes, has moral turpitude, and revels in sin is not capable of receiving the blessings of God. Satan maybe...but not from God.

That again is gnosticism...
 

Ziggy

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"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed​


Isn't that the truth!

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Co 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Eph 4:17
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20
But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

:D
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St. SteVen

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"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed​


Isn't that the truth!
From the OP.

"Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously."

John 16:13 NIV
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes,
he will guide you into all the truth.
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears,
and he will tell you what is yet to come.

/
 
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BreadOfLife

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Contrition only comes by repentance and a request for forgiveness.
And unless you;re just being dishonest - you apparently didn't read what I wrote about confession and penance.

I state very clearly that the prayers or actions of penence take place AFTER repentance and forgiveness. And as I stated before - they are a tool to help the pernint person to reflect on his or her sin in the hope of NOT re[reating it. There's nothing "gnostic" about it.

And a blessing on an individual who does not repent of obvious known sins but instead boasts, promotes, has moral turpitude, and revels in sin is not capable of receiving the blessings of God. Satan maybe...but not from God.

That again is gnosticism...
Praying pover a sinful person in the hope of their eventual repentancce is a Christian practice - not a "gnostic" one.

The Church is NOT a museum of sinless people.
It's a hospital for sinners . . .
 

Ziggy

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From the OP.

"Why do we need the church to TELL us what we believe?
Must we surrender our right to our own beliefs to be a part of the church?

There is even a famous book titled: Know What You Believe
Which is there to inform you of what you haven't a clue about.
Brainwashing, obviously."

John 16:13 NIV
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes,
he will guide you into all the truth.
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears,
and he will tell you what is yet to come.

/
Same reason a baby needs a mom to feed it and clothe it and teach it how to say mamma and dadda and bubba, and teach it how to walk, and to learn the difference between yes and no.

Babes don't know what they don't know. Thats why we have parents to teach us.

In the church's case Christ is the father. He is the authority of what right and wrong are.
The woman is the caretaker of the child. They both have a role in raising the child.
And when a child has a question then mom should say: Go ask your father.

Something about women being silent in the church... lol

What is that? The mom should not override the authority of the dad.
Just because mom said so doesn't make it right.
And moms are too emotional and kids pull at the heart strings and moms give in easily at every whimper and cry.
Dads on the hand are a bit more stern, not mean just stricter. That way the kids don't get away with whatever they want.

Problem with mom today is she thinks she knows better than dad, and has been doing a whole lot of talking instead of doing the walking.

There is a conflict in the messaging between mom and dad. Which sometimes can lead to divorce and a kid without a parent to direct their paths in the way the father believes they should go. So we have mom, who gives in and we end up with kids with little discipline.

That's not to say there aren't good moms out there. It's just the way the structure God built it.

Jesus said when you want to talk to dad, go in your room and talk.
Paul says there are times when we all need to pray together with mom.

Meaning the kids sit at the table and listen to eachother and be encouraging and empathetic, helpful.

Closet = Private talk
Church = open discussion

The brainwashing happens when mom puts herself in the role of authority of dad.
Tha's what we are seeing in the churches today. Nobody is listening to dad, because mom said so.

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St. SteVen

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Same reason a baby needs a mom to feed it and clothe it and teach it how to say mamma and dadda and bubba, and teach it how to walk, and to learn the difference between yes and no.

Babes don't know what they don't know. Thats why we have parents to teach us.
Yes, of course.
And I'm not against Christian education.
I just think it's odd that the church says they need to "teach us what we believe."
In reality they are teaching us what THEY believe.

/
 

Ziggy

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Yes, of course.
And I'm not against Christian education.
I just think it's odd that the church says they need to "teach us what we believe."
In reality they are teaching us what THEY believe.

/
I think we all do it.
I never really was a member of any denomination. I tried a few different ones, but I kept getting moved along.
I don't know how I feel about "churches" in general.
In the book of Acts the churches were the peoples homes. There you had the heirarchy of Father, Mother, Children, even grandparents.
And the disciples would go from house to house sharing the good news. Each house was it's own "church" .
In the OT and I believe in the NT there were occasions where the people as a whole would come together and be partakers of the feast days as stated in the OT. Paul said on one occasion that he must keep the feast in Jerusalem. He also made tents and I believe that was for
the feast of tabernacles. The Old was still waning to usher in the New.
I'm sure the transition wasn't easy. To explain those tents are our tabernacle, they represent our body which the Spirit of God resides in.
They must of thought Paul was mad. What are you talking about man?
In the OT during feast days and every three years people would bring their goods, wheat, grain, meat, oil, fruits, whatever they had.
And they would all gather and sit down and feast with the Lord. They brought their blessings before the Lord and they all shared in those blessings.
Kind of like Church supper on Sunday nights. I see the signs all the time. Beans and franks or spaghetti at 6pm, come one come all.
This is a good work. Too bad the kitchen isn't open every day. Lot of hungry people in the world.
But it takes money to put food on the table and that's what I believe tithing is for and good will offerings we call donations.

I think if more churches did more good works, then the preaching would be easier to digest because they would see that they practice what they preach.
ha, I hear, seeing is believing.. but the preaching is where faith is, it's in the word.

It's the combo of physical bread and spiritual bread. The works and the gospel.
But this teaching comes from God and is pure unblemished.
But when we put our own ingredients in the bread.. it takes on a different texture.

Paul says something about staying home to eat unless people come together hungry and try to jump the line instead of waiting for the other to be served first. I understand this carnally, trying to see the spiritual application..
Humble, humility, putting others before self.
I think the church leaders are the ones who should be last in line so they can serve the tables.

Remember:
Act 6:1
And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
Act 6:2
Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
Act 6:3
Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Act 6:4
But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

So when Jesus was in the wilderness and he fed the 5000 or the 7000, he blessed the baskets of fish and bread and had his disciples feed the people. And then he had them take up the baskets which still had food in them.

In Acts we see the Apostles making disciples of others to do the same thing Jesus had them do.

I watch some ministry on tv. I don't see people serving tables in a "daily ministration" , which is exactly what God did with the children in the wilderness with the manna. Only difference is they had to go and get their own manna, while in the NT the people are served.
Which is what God did, he served them, but they had to collect it for themselves.
So instead of serving oneself in the OT, we are to serve each other in the NT.

So much to learn. New things everyday.
:D
Hugs
 
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amigo de christo

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"Christians don't know what they believe." - until they are brainwashed​


Isn't that the truth!

Rom 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Co 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Eph 4:17
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20
But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

:D
Hugs
many dont know what they believe , but media and govts sure were a brainwashing and many fell for it as well .
 
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Ziggy

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many dont know what they believe , but media and govts sure were a brainwashing and many fell for it as well .
Friend,
My dad never had heart or blood problems in his life. Not on his side of the family tree.
In March 2021 dad got the two original moderna vaccines.
For the last 3 years he has gotten UTI infections every winter and this year he just had a stroke.

I told him I wasn't getting no vaccine, and he was cool with that.
He said he was, and even though I wasn't cool with that I respected the choice was his.
I told him my thoughts, my fears, my suspicions, and the facts that were coming out drip by drip, but he made his decision.

Now he's in rehab trying to recover and I don't know what that might look like, if he is able.
He can't sit, he can't talk very good, he has trouble staying awake, he can't turn himself. His right side is almost paralyzed. And he has no appetite.
I don't know if I am going to be able to take care of him in the condition he is in.

And even if I could turn back time, he probably would still do it anyways. Because his reasoning was:
If there was anything wrong with the vaccine then he would be a willing subject for them to test on.
When I mention vaccine injury no one wants to discuss it. Denial Denial Denial.
Was it all for nothing?

He's got covid twice since then, so it didn't prevent that from happening like they said it would.
I just wonder how many people will fall for it a second time, because it will come round again.
It's the only thing they have to instill fear in people to control them.

Reeeee..
Hugs brother.
 

Aunty Jane

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Yes, of course.
And I'm not against Christian education.
I just think it's odd that the church says they need to "teach us what we believe."
In reality they are teaching us what THEY believe.
True.....but Jesus taught his disciples 'what to believe' because their religious leaders were not teaching them the truth. He taught them where their leaders had erred in how they taught God's word, and how the truth would 'set them free' from the shackles of misinterpreted scripture and the blatant adoption of pagan ideas woven into scripture by devious minds influenced by God's adversary.

If God is 'drawing' us, as Jesus said he would, (John 6:44) how do we know if it is God or the devil attracting us to certain ideas? They are in competition for our worship after all......so, the important thing to remember is that majority views are seldom right when it comes to the things God wants to teach us....we know from Christ's teachings that "few" will be found on "the road to life" because it is "cramped and narrow"......what does that mean?
It means that there is no wriggle room, no space to veer off one way or another...you have to walk the straight path because on either side is a sheer cliff with a deathly fall......the devil is telling you its safe to wander off and do your own thing....God tells us to stay on the narrow road.
The 'majority' are on the 'other' road "that leads to destruction"....not hell, but elimination from life, having the gift withdrawn because they are unworthy of it. (Matt 7:13-14) When the judgment comes, as it must, Matt 7:21-23 will be the experience of the "many"...not the "few".

God could save everyone, but only those who are willing to learn the value of obedience, and can use their free will to benefit others, will make the cut of those considered worthy of life in the "new earth" to come. (2 Peter 3:13)
 
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Ziggy

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If God is 'drawing' us, as Jesus said he would,(John 6:44) how do we know if it is God or the devil attracting us to certain ideas?
I believe that's why Jesus came to give us an example.
And his life isn't an easy example to follow, but it's the good path.

I often hear people say: What would Jesus do?
Well, first you have to get to know him, read about him, listen to his words, watch what he does and then go after him.
Then like Elisha you take up the mantle of Elijah and carry on in his footsteps.
Take up your cross and follow me.

Jesus wasn't about self, it was always about others first. When the world starts telling you it's all about you, you know the devil is calling.
People are naturally selfish though. I can be at times. I should do this but I want to do that, and sometimes that gets it's way.
Life is a battle between the should and should nots, thats for sure.

Hugs
 

Hillsage

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Actually, a more accurate statement is that Gnostics hold to some Catholic teachings.
Catholics were here first.
The "FIRST" CHURCH was that of ISRAEL. And 'the church' was called "THE CHURCH" 64 times in the bible. The WESTERN church of ROME and the EASTERN ORTHODOX church of Byzantine came later.

Both claim to be 'CATHOLIC' (Universal) and both claim to be 'ORTHODOX' (keeping right teaching).

Which CATHOLIC church are you referring to above? Roman CATHOLIC or Greek ORTHODOX?
 
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St. SteVen

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He's got covid twice since then, so it didn't prevent that from happening like they said it would.
I just wonder how many people will fall for it a second time, because it will come round again.
It's the only thing they have to instill fear in people to control them.
They're trying to kill us in the name of saving lives. (depopulation plan)
When I was at the pharmacy the other day there was a sign encouraging me
to ask about the 15 vaccines they had available. ???

Seriously?

/
 

Ziggy

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My medical records have me labeled as non-compliant because I won't take all the drugs they try to push on me.
So when they ask me if I want a shot in the arm, I tell them to read my medical records.

Look, I'm not saying the medicine isn't good. It's just not for me. I rather try to eat right avoid junk so I don't have to have cholestrol pills, high blood pressure pills, blood thinners and whatever other concoction they throw in the mix.
That's me and the way I am.
Some people don't have a choice and without certain medications it can be life threatening, I get it.

But if God said to me tonight, I'm taking you home. There's no amount of drugs that are going to prevent that.
The only medication I take is Tylenol and Alka Selter plus cold medicine when I have the sniffles.
The rest are vitamin and mineral supplements on top of eating as much organic ( which is messed up anyways) as is possible.

I haven't had a vaccine since my last tetnus shot some 30 years ago. And so far I'm still breathing, even though in 2015 they said I only had a year to live. So I'm on borrowed time as it is.

I'm not a good consumer of pharmecuetical goods.
That's just me.
Hugs
 

Hillsage

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Danger sign from the bible;

GAL 5:20 Idolatry,
witchcraft/pharmakeia, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

5331 pharmakeia: medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extens.) magic (lit. or fig.)


REV 21:8* But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and
sorcerers/pharmakeus, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

5332 pharmakeus: a druggist ("pharmacist") or poisoner, i.e. (by extens.) a magician
 

BreadOfLife

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The "FIRST" CHURCH was that of ISRAEL. And 'the church' was called "THE CHURCH" 64 times in the bible. The WESTERN church of ROME and the EASTERN ORTHODOX church of Byzantine came later.

Both claim to be 'CATHOLIC' (Universal) and both claim to be 'ORTHODOX' (keeping right teaching).
WRONG. There was only ONE Church.

The Church was being called the Catholic Church before the end of the FIRST century while some of the Apostles were still alive. The distinction between "Catholic" and "Orthodox" didn't occur until the Schism in the 11th century.

Eastern Fathers like first century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch referred to the Catholic Church.
He was a student of the Apostle John:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Which CATHOLIC church are you referring to above? Roman CATHOLIC or Greek ORTHODOX?
There is no "Roman" Catholic Church.

Roman (Latin) simply refers to one of about twenty Liturgical Rites that comprise the ONE Catholic Church. This includes the Maronite, Byzantine, Melkite, Coptic, Alexandrian, etc.- ALL of which are not "Roman" Catholics.