When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

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grafted branch

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Reformed Preterism is a false theology that believes and teaches Many aspects of Matthew Chapter 24 have been fulfilled in 70AD, it also rejects the "Two Witnesses" in Rev Chapter 11 as being literal prophets returned in physical bodies that die, it also rejects a future (The Beast) Rev Chapter 13 as being a literal individual human man

Reformed Preterisn is a false theological teaching, simple and clear, just get in reality of these facts
When I look at the various end time views I see some people, who for the most part, are very dramatic and have an aversion to prophecy being fulfilled on anyone other than themselves or during their lifetime. It’s a matter of looking at the news and finding some scripture that could possibly be referring to that news, then becoming very dramatic and excited over scripture being fulfilled before their eyes. When it becomes evident that they were incorrect they go and do it all over again with another piece of news.

So what Biblical principles are you using to claim something has not been fulfilled? We know the Pharisees were incorrect in their assessment of Jesus and how He did fulfill the scriptures, and we all want to avoid their mistakes. So what method are you using to determine whether an event fulfills scripture or not?
 
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David in NJ

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True, not when Jesus prophesied it.

But fulfilled when the Judaean Christians fled.
True = Judean Jews/Christians fled when God judged (70AD) Jerusalem/Temple/Jews for condemning the Sinless Son of God

Jesus gave a repeating prophecy:
a.) 70 AD
b.) Abomination of Desolation = Future and we are very near to the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy of Mark 13:14-23
 

covenantee

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True = Judean Jews/Christians fled when God judged (70AD) Jerusalem/Temple/Jews for condemning the Sinless Son of God

Jesus gave a repeating prophecy:
a.) 70 AD
b.) Abomination of Desolation = Future and we are very near to the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy of Mark 13:14-23
The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies. Luke 21:20
 

David in NJ

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The abomination of desolation was the Roman armies. Luke 21:20
FYI = Jerusalem/Israel continues to be surrounded by "armies" that want Her destruction.

Indeed the Romans were an "abomination" to the Jews since they were in bondage to the Roman Empire similar to the Jews being in bondage to Pharoah and the Egyptian Empire.

However, the LORD gave specific detail as to the 'future' Prophecy of the "AoD standing where it should not"....... and MORE

Therefore, God Says "more prophecy to be fulfilled" = in the near future.

@Scott Downey, where are you?
 

covenantee

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FYI = Jerusalem/Israel continues to be surrounded by "armies" that want Her destruction.

Indeed the Romans were an "abomination" to the Jews since they were in bondage to the Roman Empire similar to the Jews being in bondage to Pharoah and the Egyptian Empire.

However, the LORD gave specific detail as to the 'future' Prophecy of the "AoD standing where it should not"....... and MORE

Therefore, God Says "more prophecy to be fulfilled" = in the near future.

@Scott Downey, where are you?
Matthew 24:15.

The abomination of desolation, i.e. Roman armies, would be seen by Jesus' disciples.

It would be standing in the holy place, the holy city of Jerusalem.

Both fulfilled.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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True = Judean Jews/Christians fled when God judged (70AD) Jerusalem/Temple/Jews for condemning the Sinless Son of God

Jesus gave a repeating prophecy:
a.) 70 AD
b.) Abomination of Desolation = Future and we are very near to the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy of Mark 13:14-23
What is a repeating prophecy? What does that mean exactly?
 
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grafted branch

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It would be standing in the holy place, the holy city of Jerusalem.
Numbers 35:4 And the suburbs of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

Some people consider the land where the Roman armies stood just prior to the siege to be a holy place based on what the Levites were given.
 

covenantee

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Numbers 35:4 And the suburbs of the cities, which ye shall give unto the Levites, shall reach from the wall of the city and outward a thousand cubits round about.

Some people consider the land where the Roman armies stood just prior to the siege to be a holy place based on what the Levites were given.
Interesting confirmation; thanks.
 
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David in NJ

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Matthew 24:15.

The abomination of desolation, i.e. Roman armies, would be seen by Jesus' disciples.

It would be standing in the holy place, the holy city of Jerusalem.

Both fulfilled.
The "holy place" was inside the Temple, behind the Veil of Separation which guarded the Ark of the Covenant with the Mercy Seat.
 

covenantee

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The "holy place" was inside the Temple, behind the Veil of Separation which guarded the Ark of the Covenant with the Mercy Seat.
It would have been too late for the Christians to flee if they had waited until the Roman army occupied the Temple.

Rather, they recognized Jesus' reference to the holy place to be city itself, specifically, its environs, as @grafted branch has shown.

This gave the Christians sufficient opportunity to flee.
 

Wick Stick

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When Was the Book of Revelation Written?
By Wayne Jackson

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence
The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus
Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome
Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).
I applaud the research, but it doesn't address the idea that the book may be two works.

Revelation is organized strangely. Critically, it appears that John may have started with an apocryphon, and he is revealing the meaning of the symbols there (or rather, the angel is revealing them to John, who is recording).

Certainly, John was located in Patmos and the late date of his work seems well-established. That doesn't mean he didn't start from an earlier work.
 

David in NJ

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It would have been too late for the Christians to flee if they had waited until the Roman army occupied the Temple.

Rather, they recognized Jesus' reference to the holy place to be city itself, specifically, its environs, as @grafted branch has shown.

This gave the Christians sufficient opportunity to flee.
Repeating Prophecy

70 AD was God's judgment upon the Jewish leaders, the Temple and the nation for rejecting their only Salvation.

JESUS Prophecy will be fulfilled in the very near future in all aspects of the Prophecy, which were not fulfilled in 70 AD.


How do we know this?

JESUS and the OT prophets and the Apostles say so.
 

David in NJ

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I applaud the research, but it doesn't address the idea that the book may be two works.

Revelation is organized strangely. Critically, it appears that John may have started with an apocryphon, and he is revealing the meaning of the symbols there (or rather, the angel is revealing them to John, who is recording).

Certainly, John was located in Patmos and the late date of his work seems well-established. That doesn't mean he didn't start from an earlier work.
Follow and Believe exactly as "It is written":

"I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and,
“What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”
 

covenantee

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Repeating Prophecy

70 AD was God's judgment upon the Jewish leaders, the Temple and the nation for rejecting their only Salvation.

JESUS Prophecy will be fulfilled in the very near future in all aspects of the Prophecy, which were not fulfilled in 70 AD.


How do we know this?

JESUS and the OT prophets and the Apostles say so.
I've shown how Matthew 24:15,16 were fulfilled. Which prophecy are you referring to?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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A 'repeating prophecy' is of such nature that it will be fulfilled in part at first and then later complete fulfillment.

Therefore it has within itself a 'operation' of which God knows and fulfills unto completion.
So, that's what you're saying about Matthew 24:15-22 (Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24)? If so, which part of it wascompleted in 70 AD and which part of it wasn't completed then and will be completed in the future?
 

Truth7t7

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I never said He returned in 70 AD. He did not. Stop addressing your Preterist straw man and address my view instead.
You're well aware of my position and you run from the facts, Matthew 24:21didnt take place in 70AD great tribulation as claimed, because Jesus returns immediately after the great tribulation in Matthew 24:21

Once Again

Jesus didn't return immediately after a 70AD great tribulation, its 3rd grade logic

The great tribulation and second coming are both future events, you can break out your symbolic rubber ruler all you want, your preterist interpretation is "Wrong"

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
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Davidpt

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It would have been too late for the Christians to flee if they had waited until the Roman army occupied the Temple.

And the way you try and get around that, to stand in the holy place doesn't even mean to be in the temple. But if you thought it did mean that, would you still be insisting the AOD was already fulfilled in the first century?