Yes and that is why it was so radical for the disciples to proclaim Jesus as the Son of God.
You don’t know; we Jews know
- Thread starter Matthias
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Hey You!
Active Member
@Matthias , this is why the Church depends on Systematic Theology. All Scripture is Good for Doctrine; not just one Verse. The old analogy for depending only on a Verse or two out of Context is, "Judas hanged himself; go and do likewise". Another example is the Temptation of Christ; Jesus answered the devil by using All Scripture against him; not relying on Satan’s Lone Verses...
When we try to use the Bible to undermine Church Doctrine; we acknowledge the Bible is good for Correction. When the Bible is Good for Correcting, this supports it as an Authority. When you use it as an Authority for others, it has Authority over you. When it has Authority over you, it Reveals to you that a Prophet like Moses was coming. When it has Authority over you, the Ties that Bind Jesus to Moses should be examined. When the Ties are 'found Sound', these Ties Authenticate the New Testament...
Believe the Gospel. The First Commandment for our Age is, thou shalt have Jesus as your LORD...
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Hey You!
Active Member
Duty Faith ~ by ReverendRV * March 22
Romans 8:37 ESV; No, in all these things we have complete victory through him who loved us!
I know a man who has a Ministry to share the Gospel. He got to a point where he was succeeding, and began to make plans to become a full time Evangelist. But often when we have success in the spiritual realm, we shine like a beacon in the darkness; you may not see it, but the Devil sure does. This reminds me of a scene from the movie “Ghost”. ~ After Sam had died, he began to realize he was a ghost. He got on the Subway but no one could see him; all of the sudden one man turned on him and threw him off the train. The man was a ghost too and as far as he was concerned, there was only room enough for one ghost there. ~ This is what it’s like when you spread the Light of God; people may not see the Light but the demons can see it from miles away. The Devil would not leave the Evangelist alone. Satan brought this man all kinds of troubles and hardships. He became acquainted with persecution and dangers…
Have you experienced anything like this? Jesus said that Blessed are those who are persecuted because of Jesus Christ. You ask, “How in the world could that ever be a blessing?” As a Christian, if you are not being persecuted and falsely accused of Evil, then you are doing something wrong! If the Devil is not hot on your trail, you do not have the scent of Christ on you. If you count your many Blessings on the ledger of your checkbook, perhaps you’re not even a Christian. ~ Have you ever Lied? What do you call people that tell Lies? Have you ever stolen before? What do you call people who take things that don’t belong to them? Have you ever met a stranger on the sidewalk and felt lead to give him some money, but didn’t do it? What?? God blessed your checkbook and you didn’t bless the needy? You say, “But he might have used it to by alcohol!” If God stirred you, he might have used it to eat. If you felt you should’ve given the money, it was his. These are three of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by his Laws, would you be innocent or guilty? Lost Sinners go to a fiery Hell for all of Eternity; does this bother you, even a little?
Andrew Fuller taught that it’s the Duty of all People to believe and Obey the Gospel. What about you oh man, who have never been Saved? ~ For God so Loved the world that he gave us his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have Everlasting Life. Jesus Christ is this Unique Son of God, and he lived the Life that God always wanted us all to live. He never Sinned, and this allowed him to represent us on Judgment Day. When our Sin is weighed on God’s Scales, Jesus will place his personal Righteousness on them instead; but Sin has to be weighed somewhere. Jesus bears the Sin of Believers, and this caused him to take our Licks, and die on a Cross by bleeding to death; Justice was served. Jesus didn’t stay dead for long; he was seen alive by 500 people for forty days! We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, apart from Meritorious Works. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus as your Lord God; and start reading the Bible. ~ Yes; we have complete Victory in him who Loves us! Amen…
1st Peter 4:17 KJV; For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
shepherdsword
Well-Known Member
A good verse for the lack of understanding the Samaritans had at that time. However, it has come full circle. It's the gentiles that have clarity now:
2 Co 3:14-16
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
Reformed theology is the devil's deception.
That would mean Jesus only accepts either the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit.
Which One does He accept and which Two does He reject?
1 John 5:7 must not be in your bible.
"But the hour comes and now is, when true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such worshipers are who the Father seeks. God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:23-24/NEV)
A. The Father is worshipped by true worshippers.
B. The Father is worshipped in spirit by true worshippers.
C. The Father seeks such worshippers.
D. God is spirit.
E. We worship God in spirit and truth.
Summation/deduction (A+B+C+D+E) = The Father who is the only God is worshipped by true worshippers in spirit and truth.
A. The Father is worshipped by true worshippers.
B. The Father is worshipped in spirit by true worshippers.
C. The Father seeks such worshippers.
D. God is spirit.
E. We worship God in spirit and truth.
Summation/deduction (A+B+C+D+E) = The Father who is the only God is worshipped by true worshippers in spirit and truth.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
So in your view Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God being part of the Father?
1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.
Rejecting what the Lord says ends in spreading false doctrine
Hello there, I believe that the scripture verse you quoted, 1 John 5:7 is a proven forgery, inserted later into scripture.
You will also find that the Holy Spirit is never worshipped per scripture. And then you can figure out why as you research more.
Thanks for the post.
Dash RipRock
Active Member
That's what satan does, claims what God says is not true.
Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?
Are you going to claim all these scriptures are false too?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
It was in every bible for 600 yrs.. Not one person disputed it. It is in the textus receptus. It's in the Latin text. It is not in the corrupt text that translations use. Only the KJV is accurate, It's also in the NKJ and LSB. It has never been disputed; only not included. See the notes in your bible; it says, not in earlier manuscripts. Do you know what that means. 2 manuscripts, Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts. That's right they base 1 John 5:7 on two manuscripts. Yet there 20 thousand Majority texts that have it.
Hello..
I would rather stay on track with the OP or topic at-hand and not be diverted off track to another subject.
For 1 John 5:7-8 there are many that support what I have said, and I do not recognize any of your sources.
Here's one source for your review and aid in your further research.
The passage first appeared in the 16th century and is not found in any Greek manuscript before the 1500s. It seems to have originated from a fourth-century Latin homily and was later included in copies of the Latin Vulgate.
Erasmus, the translator of the first edition of the Greek New Testament, did not include the Comma Johanneum because he could not find any Greek manuscripts that contained it. However, after pressure from the Catholic Church, he included it in the third edition of his Greek New Testament in 1522.
Here one source:
The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 | Bible.org
“5:7 For there are three that testify, 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.” ‑‑NET Bible Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς...
authored by Daniel Wallace.
Daniel B. Wallace
I hope this post can be beneficial to you.
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Undeterred. I stand with the comma, and dispute those against it.Hello..
I would rather stay on track with the OP or topic at-hand and not be diverted off track to another subject.
For 1 John 5:7-8 there are many that support what I have said, and I do not recognize any of your sources.
Here's one source for your review and aid in your further research.
The passage first appeared in the 16th century and is not found in any Greek manuscript before the 1500s. It seems to have originated from a fourth-century Latin homily and was later included in copies of the Latin Vulgate.
Erasmus, the translator of the first edition of the Greek New Testament, did not include the Comma Johanneum because he could not find any Greek manuscripts that contained it. However, after pressure from the Catholic Church, he included it in the third edition of his Greek New Testament in 1522.
Here one source:
The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8 | Bible.org
“5:7 For there are three that testify, 5:8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement.” ‑‑NET Bible Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς...bible.org
authored by Daniel Wallace.
Daniel B. Wallace
Daniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater. His Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament ...
I hope this post can be beneficial to you.
Short Comma Defense.pdf
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is called “God’s spirit“….which indicates that it belongs to him, because it emanates from him to accomplish his will….but nowhere does the Bible ever call it “God the Holy Spirit”. Nor is there a single scripture that says “God the Son” either….both of these are Catholic inventions.
The Father alone is God which was an exclusive Jewish belief in one single, all powerful entity, rather than a multiplicity of gods who all shared some power, those worshipped by gentiles.
Nowhere did Jesus change that belief in “one God” to his disciples. In fact it was confirmed by the apostle Paul who spoke for the other apostles collectively…..
1 Cor 8:5-6…
”For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”
Their “one God” was “the Father”….and Jesus was their “Lord” (not another word for “God” but a title of respect)….and the Holy Spirit is completely missing from that statement.
It’s the same with John 17:3….
”This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.”
Why is the third, supposedly equal person missing in this statement that is a salvation issue?
Who then, really “knows” the one Jesus called “the only true God“ (without including himself?)
The Jews were the only people who carried the name of their God “Yahweh” into battle because he was the one who granted them victory over their enemies in that era.
But in the Christian Era, the Jews had no military power because they were chafing under Roman domination….and they had lost the name of their God. Through Christ, the Jewish people got to be reacquainted with Yahweh, but the religious leaders made sure that he was not well accepted by the majority…their lies prevailed among the people who were persuaded to reject him in spite of his miracles.
Most here who study the Scriptures know that this is a spurious addition….
Read in context we see why it does not belong…
1 John 5:5-9….
”Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son.” (ESV)
It was the testimony of God by his spirit, that confirmed that “the Son of God” came by “water and blood”. The water of his baptism was the beginning of his mission and it ended with his shed blood…this was the testimony from God as to who Jesus was and why he came…three lines of evidence, all in agreement.
You too should take your own words to heart.
Remember that the majority of those who claim Jesus as their “Lord” are going to be rejected by him at the judgment (Matt 7:21-23)……why? Because they are breaking God’s law, and they don’t even know it. They are as convinced about this Catholic lie as the first century Jews were convinced that Jesus was a false Messiah, and were happy to curse themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25)
The devil has ways to make the truth look like lies, and the lies look like truth…..Jesus tells us that “few” will be found on the road to life (Matt 7:13-14) because travelling that road will cause the same kinds of difficulties as the first century apostles and disciples received, especially from those who purportedly worshipped the same God. History repeats because the devil has no new tricks…..the old ones still work very well for him and he knows that humans have short memories.
The world would hate them, despite the fact that they teach the truth….a very uncomfortable truth. (John 15:18-21) In a world ruled by the devil…nothing is as it appears.
I’ll leave it to them to respond to you, if they care to.
Jesus himself tells us precisely who his God and the God of his disciples is. The only thing left for us to do after that is to compare his answer with the answers of others. If they match, we’re on the right track. If they don’t match, we’re on the wrong track.
Neither 1 John 5:7 nor any other passage of scripture will contradict what Jesus said about who his God and the God of his disciples is.
Trinitarianism doesn’t teach us that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God being part of the Father.
Gentiles believe all manner of things about God, some of which is correct and some of which is not.
The correct understanding, in my view, is the Jewish understanding held and expressed by Jesus. That’s bedrock for me.
NayborBear
Active Member
Here are some verses that MAY help. It's 1 thing to sing praises unto the Lord. Yet? That's NOT worshiping the 1 TRUE God in Spirit! That's Love! And yes? There IS a difference!
More times then not? It's the "flesh!" NOT one's spirit!
Psalm 41:13
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Psalm 106:48
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, AND God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: AND THE GOVERNMENT SHALL BE ON HIS SHOULDER and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
This is what and where so many "churchianitists" fail to grasp! Because they can't!
It is 1 thing to SEE the Father in Jesus Christ!
QUITE another in GOING TO the Father BY Jesus Christ!
1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God BY Jesus Christ.
See the difference?
1 John 4 (b)
this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ...
Just who was it that wholly seduced Eve in the Garden of Eden Incident?
More times then not? It's the "flesh!" NOT one's spirit!
Psalm 41:13
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
Psalm 106:48
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, AND God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: AND THE GOVERNMENT SHALL BE ON HIS SHOULDER and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
This is what and where so many "churchianitists" fail to grasp! Because they can't!
It is 1 thing to SEE the Father in Jesus Christ!
QUITE another in GOING TO the Father BY Jesus Christ!
1 Peter 2:5
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God BY Jesus Christ.
See the difference?
1 John 4 (b)
this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ...
Just who was it that wholly seduced Eve in the Garden of Eden Incident?
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