Interesting preterist argument

Spiritual Israelite · Jun 19, 2025

Davidpt said:
It's not entirely clear to me by what you submitted, that if you agree Noah's flood = tribulation, or that you disagree it does?

The way I tend to try and view a time of trouble is in this manner. It involves conflicts between nations, for one. For example, WW1, WW2. Those are examples of conflicts between nations. Before the flood did nations even exist at that time the way they did after the flood, and that they were having conflicts with each other all the time, prior to the flood?

Look what the parallel to Matthew 24:21 records, regardless that some deny it's a parallel.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time

Now compare with this.

Genesis 10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

It clearly spells it out for us. Thus Noah's flood can't be compared to anything, especially tribulation, not to mention, tribulation involves a time of trouble and persecution. Genesis10 is talking about nations after the flood, not before the flood. And that Daniel 12:1 says---ever since there was a nation.

The most absurd thing I have noted anyone doing is having Matthew 24:21 involving a local event and then having Daniel 12:1 involving a global event that happens much later. When Jesus already plainly told us that nothing in the past nor in the future can equal nor surpass this great tribulation in severity--proved by what He said here---no, nor ever shall be. What part of---no, nor ever shall be---are some failing to comprehend?

This interpretation implies that a local event can surpass a global event in greatness, in severity. Any reasonable person knows that that logic is backwards. That would be like comparing a local flood to Noah's flood, a global flood, then insisting that the former surpasses the latter in greatness, in severity. keep in mind what I said here. I said this interpretation implies. I never one single time said that anyone is saying nor thinks that a local event can surpass a global event in greatness, in severity.

Which then proves my point, since no one would agree that it could, therefore, it is absurd to insist Matthew 24:21 is involving a local event, and Daniel 12:1 a global event, and that Jesus already told us in Matthew 24:21 it can't be equaled nor surpassed in severity. Thus this causes a major problem, the fact, per this interpretation, the one meant in Matthew 24 precedes the one meant in Daniel 12. Therefore, per this scenario, making the former greater in severity than the latter. Which adds up to, that a local event can surpass a global event in greatness, in severity.

BTW, my position on Matthew 24:21 has zero to do with Premil vs Amil. Even if I eventually changed my position to Amil, I'm never going to change my position in regards to Matthew 24:21 by agreeing that Preterists are interpreting that verse correctly. Unlike some others who take verse 21 to be involving a future tribulation, I do not agree with them that it is involving a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem where animal sacrificing resumes, though. That's not the only way to understand some of these things.

I choose to try and understand some of these things in light of 2 Thessalonians 2:4, for example, and what all that is involving. And that I do not take the temple meant in that verse, in the literal sense. As if it is involving a brick and mortar temple. Yeah, right. Where then is there even one single mention of Jerusalem anywhere in 2 Thessalonians 2 in order to support this literal temple interpretation pertaining to verse 4? Nowhere. There you go then, nothing before verse 4 nor after verse 4 supports that verse 4 involves a literal brick and mortar temple. Which then means the 2nd temple before it was destroyed is not meant. Nor is a rebuilt literal temple in the future meant. Yet, it is involving a 3rd temple, a spiritual temple though, not a literal temple.

Why do you act as if tribulation can't refer to God's wrath? That seems to be your whole argument and that argument is clearly false. I have shown you that it refers to God's wrath in verses like these...

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Do you deny that these verses are referring to God's wrath as tribulation? If not, then why do you deny that the great tribulation of Matthew 24:21 can refer to God's wrath?

Spiritual Israelite · Jun 19, 2025

Davidpt said:
Look what the parallel to Matthew 24:21 records, regardless that some deny it's a parallel.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time

You say those must be parallel while at the same time saying these passages from the same Olivet Discourse are somehow not parallel:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

There is no chance whatsoever that Jesus said what is recorded in Matthew 24:15-21 at one point in the Olivet Discourse and said what is recorded in Luke 21:20-24 shortly before or after that. That makes absolutely zero sense. Luke worded it a little differently here and there simply because he was writing to a different audience (the Gentiles) than Matthew was.

Davidpt said:
Now compare with this.

Genesis 10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

It clearly spells it out for us. Thus Noah's flood can't be compared to anything, especially tribulation, not to mention, tribulation involves a time of trouble and persecution. Genesis10 is talking about nations after the flood, not before the flood. And that Daniel 12:1 says---ever since there was a nation.

Tribulation can also refer to God's wrath, as you've been shown. You won't even respond to that, which shows that you just believe what you want to believe instead of acknowledging that tribulation can also refer to God's wrath.

Davidpt said:
The most absurd thing I have noted anyone doing is having Matthew 24:21 involving a local event and then having Daniel 12:1 involving a global event that happens much later.

Why is that absurd when Matthew 24:21 clearly relates to tribulation only in Judea while Daniel 12:1-2 relates to the time of the resurrection of the dead that will occur at the second coming of Christ, which is a global event (2 Peter 3:10-12)? What is far more absurd than that is you thinking that Matthew and Mark inexplicably failed to record Jesus's answer to the disciples first question while only Luke recorded it. And it's absurd to not see how obvious it is that Matthew 24:15-21 is a parallel passage to Luke 21:20-24.

claninja · Wednesday at 10:47 PM

ewq1938 said:
But they did not live to see the trib, the mark, the image of the beast, the second coming or gathering of the saints which means they didn't see any of the OD events because all the events have to be seen to happen.

i absolutely agree the disciples didn’t live through the events according to your interpretive framework.

ewq1938 said:
Actually, to argue that the apostles did live through ALL the signs Jesus gave in Matthew 24 is demonstrably false — both biblically and historically. They weren't gathered together by angels. They all died separately and at different times. Most were murdered, only John died of old age. None of them were gathered as described by Christ and none saw the second coming nor all the saved dead resurrect. You keep ignoring those facts.

I agree, it would be false according to your biblical framework.

But contrary to your framework, the apostles claimed it was near (James 5:8-9), that the end had drawn near ( 1 Peter 4:7), that the coming was in a little while without delay (Hebrews 10:37), and that it was the last hour (1 John 2:18-19). GRAMMATICALY, these are are all statements of factual reality and certainty from the perspective of the authors, not possibility or probability. They could know for certain it was near, when they saw the events of the Olivet discourse occurring. And since the they claimed it was near with certainty, the evidence points that their generation, was the one living through the events of the Olivet discourse.

Just because the gathering or coming on the clouds of Matthew 24 didn’t Happen according to your framework, doesn’t mean those events didn’t Happen within Jesus generation.

ewq1938 · Wednesday at 11:53 PM

claninja said:
i absolutely agree the disciples didn’t live through the events according to your interpretive framework.

No, it's that they did not live to see those events. No image of the beast came to life and spoke and no second coming or gathering of the elect by angels and the disciples would have been those elect had they been the correct generation but they weren't.

claninja · Thursday at 6:38 AM

ewq1938 said:
No, it's that they did not live to see those events. No image of the beast came to life and spoke and no second coming or gathering of the elect by angels and the disciples would have been those elect had they been the correct generation but they weren't.

I absolutely agree that they did not live through the events according to your own interpretative framework that you import onto those texts -

i agree no image of the beast spoke within Jesus’ generation, according to your interpretation of that event in revelation 13. I agree the 2nd coming and gathering by angels didn’t happen in Jesus’ generation, according to your interpretation of those events in Matthew 24.

But historically, Jesus’ generation did live through wars, famines, pestilence, persecution, the rise of many false prophets and Christs, many falling away from the church, the gospel going to the whole oikoumene.

The writers of the the apostles claimed it was near (James 5:8-9), that the end had drawn near ( 1 Peter 4:7), that the coming was in a little while without delay (Hebrews 10:37), and that it was the last hour (1 John 2:18-19). GRAMMATICALY, these are are all statements of factual reality and certainty from the perspective of the authors, not possibility or probability.

How could the apostles claim it was near, and without delay, and that it was the last hour, if they knew for a fact they weren’t living through the events of the Olivet discourse?

33So also, when you see all these things, you will know that He is near,f right at the door.

ewq1938 · 2025-07-04T00:18:08-0500

claninja said:
I absolutely agree that they did not live through the events according to your own interpretative framework that you import onto those texts -

I absolutely agree that they did live through the events according to your own interpretative framework that you import onto those texts

claninja · 2025-07-04T07:18:37-0500

ewq1938 said:
I absolutely agree that they did live through the events according to your own interpretative framework that you import onto those texts

The belief that Matthew 24:4-34 was completely fulfilled within Jesus’ generation is itself not a “framework” imported into the text— it’s a conclusion drawn from the text itself through context, grammar, syntax, historicity, and audience relevance. That’s why even theologians from non-preterist systems — including amillennialists and premillennialists — interpret Matthew 24:4–34 as referring to first-century events.

Take John Gill, a historic premillennial commentator that wrote that all of Matthew 24:4-34 was fulfilled in the first century. On Matthew 24:34, he writes:

“[It] respects that present age, or generation of men then living in it… all these things had their accomplishment, in and about forty years after this.”

So, if even a historic premillennialist, like John gill, sees Jesus’ words as fulfilled in that generation, then the preterist reading isn’t something being forced onto the text — it’s a conclusion drawn from the text, REGARDLESS of framework.

Attempting to the flip the script with such misunderstanding, and without addressing the main point of my argument, doesn’t do your position any justice.

ewq1938 · 2025-07-05T00:03:27-0500

claninja said:
The belief that Matthew 24:4-34 was completely fulfilled within Jesus’ generation is itself not a “framework” imported into the text

Incorrect. It is a framework imported into the text. Both Full Preterism and Partial Preterism are deceived by 70Ad, thinking it has anything at all to do with the events listed in the OD.

Jesus Wept · 2025-07-05T00:28:44-0500

I am not a preterist, full or otherwise. That being said, Christ plainly stated, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
He also told the High Priest something similar. ""Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? Jesus said, I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.
The Truth, spoke the truth, plainly, as was his custom. I'm not sure why we can't just take Him at His word.

ewq1938 · 2025-07-05T01:14:43-0500

Jesus Wept said:
I am not a preterist, full or otherwise. That being said, Christ plainly stated, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
He also told the High Priest something similar. ""Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? Jesus said, I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.
The Truth, spoke the truth, plainly, as was his custom. I'm not sure why we can't just take Him at His word.

If someone believes all prophecy is fulfilled, including the second coming then that person is a full Preterist.

Also, the Greek word translated "coming" also means "going".

G2064
ἔρχομαι
erchomai
er'-khom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ἐλεύθομαι eleuthomai or ἔλθω elthō; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.
Total KJV occurrences: 639

Jesus Wept · 2025-07-05T01:18:34-0500

ewq1938 said:
If someone believes all prophecy is fulfilled, including the second coming then that person is a full Preterist.

Also, the Greek word translated "coming" also means "going".

G2064
ἔρχομαι
erchomai
er'-khom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ἐλεύθομαι eleuthomai or ἔλθω elthō; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.
Total KJV occurrences: 639

What's your point? I missed it.
Do you have a response to the scriptures I quoted?

ewq1938 · 2025-07-05T01:43:33-0500

Jesus Wept said:
What's your point? I missed it.
Do you have a response to the scriptures I quoted?

Yes. It's in my previous post.

Jesus Wept · 2025-07-05T01:45:35-0500

ewq1938 said:
Yes. It's in my previous post.

If you say so.

LoveYeshua · 2025-07-05T06:34:55-0500

NotTheRock said:
This guy lays out a good argument for Jesus's return in 70 AD. I'm curious for your thoughts IF you watch the 25-minute video.

I watched it, this guy ( false teacher) does not know about duality of prophecy, many have 2 outcomes Jesus return is one of them, his first advent approximately year 0 his second advent still to come, when he returns this time He will be seen by all as written in scripture;

First Advent: The Birth of Jesus in Bethlehem
The first coming of Jesus Christ, His advent in humble circumstances, was foretold through multiple Old Testament prophecies, some of which were realized in His birth in Bethlehem. In Micah 5:2, we read about the prophecy concerning the birthplace of the Messiah:
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting." This prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus was born in Bethlehem, as described in Matthew 2:1-6. The star of Bethlehem in the sky served as a miraculous sign, leading the Magi to the place where the Messiah was born.

The Gospel of Matthew 2:9-11 describes how the wise men followed the star that guided them to the place where the young Jesus was, and they worshiped Him. This star serves as a celestial confirmation of the prophecy made centuries earlier, marking the first advent of the King of Kings in humble surroundings. Isaiah's prophecy, though it speaks of the broader nature of Christ’s first advent, also points to His humble arrival in the world:
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Second Advent: The Glorious Return of Christ
While His first coming was humble, the second coming will be in power and glory for all to see. Jesus Himself prophesied His return in Matthew 24:30:
"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This prophecy points to a visible, dramatic return of Jesus Christ, something that will be witnessed by all the tribes of the earth. It marks the beginning of the fulfillment of the Messianic Kingdom when Christ will reign on earth.

The Book of Revelation echoes this same truth in Revelation 1:7:
"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen." This passage gives us an even more specific description: "every eye will see Him", emphasizing the universality of His return. It also reminds us that His return will be met with mourning, particularly for those who rejected Him, because His coming will signify the judgment of the world.

The prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14 speaks of the Son of Man being given authority, glory, and a kingdom:
"I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed." This passage emphasizes the glory of the Messiah’s second coming and the eternal reign He will establish. The clouds of heaven again symbolize divine majesty and the glory in which Christ will return, and the kingdom He will establish will never end.

The Book of Zechariah also foretells the dramatic second advent:
"And the Lord will be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be—'The Lord is one, and His name one.'" (Zechariah 14:9) This points to a time when Jesus will reign as King over all the earth. His return will usher in a time of universal reign, where the whole world will acknowledge Him as Lord.

In Luke 21:27-28, Jesus Himself speaks about His return:
"Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." This passage echoes the imagery of clouds and the glorious return of Jesus. The message is clear: when we see the signs unfolding, we are to look up, for our redemption is near. His return will be a moment of ultimate salvation and judgment.

The contrast between Jesus' first advent and His second advent is stark. His first coming was humble, marked by Bethlehem's star, a small town in Judea, and witnessed by shepherds, wise men, and a small circle of people. He came to offer peace and salvation through His life, death, and resurrection, fulfilling prophecies like Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2, and others that foretold a coming Messiah who would suffer for the sins of the world. His second coming, however, will be a public display of glory, witnessed by all people, seen in clouds of power and majesty, accompanied by judgment and the establishment of God's eternal kingdom. Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 emphasize the visibility of His return, ensuring that every eye will see Him, from the greatest to the least.

Thus, we see that the first advent brought peace, while the second advent will bring judgment and glory. Jesus’ first coming was as a humble servant, but in His second coming, He will return as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, fulfilling the promises made through the prophets of old.

Davy · 2025-07-05T09:08:05-0500

claninja said:
I think CS Lewis was referring to the olivet discourse, not Matthew 16:28

“Say what you like,” we shall be told, “the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.”

I don't know if you agree with his above statement, but he only reveals by that statement that he didn't have a clue as to what Lord Jesus actually said about the generation in His Olivet discourse.

Matt 24:32-36
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
KJV

Exactly what... did Jesus mean by "all these things"?

The answer to that is simple for one who simply reads... the above Scripture as written.

That phrase, "all these things", refer to those SIGNS that He gave there to His disciples (and us) which are about the end of this world and His future 2nd coming. They just happen to also be the SEALS of Revelation 6.

Thus Jesus' statement there about that "generation" is that it would not pass until ALL THOSE SIGNS (OR SEALS) ARE FULFILLED. And that MUST mean they are ALL fulfilled in that one generation of time. So He was NOT talking about genealogy, He was pointing to the FINAL generation on earth that will SEE all those SIGNS.

That of course begs another question, once it is understood what Lord Jesus actually said there. Did any of the Apostles SEE all those SIGNS in their day? No, of course not, for Lord Jesus still has NOT returned yet today. And there is MUCH written in God's Word of events that are to occur with Christ's return that have never happened yet today.

And a VERY, VERY BIG EVENT Jesus mentioned with that in verse 35 is about heaven and earth passing away on that day of His coming! What deceived not in their right mind person would think that happened back in the days of His Apostles?

NotTheRock · 2025-07-05T13:05:28-0500

LoveYeshua said:
I watched it, this guy ( false teacher) does not know about duality of prophecy, many have 2 outcomes Jesus return is one of them, his first advent approximately year 0 his second advent still to come, when he returns this time He will be seen by all as written in scripture;

First Advent: The Birth of Jesus in Bethlehem
The first coming of Jesus Christ, His advent in humble circumstances, was foretold through multiple Old Testament prophecies, some of which were realized in His birth in Bethlehem. In Micah 5:2, we read about the prophecy concerning the birthplace of the Messiah:
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting." This prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus was born in Bethlehem, as described in Matthew 2:1-6. The star of Bethlehem in the sky served as a miraculous sign, leading the Magi to the place where the Messiah was born.

The Gospel of Matthew 2:9-11 describes how the wise men followed the star that guided them to the place where the young Jesus was, and they worshiped Him. This star serves as a celestial confirmation of the prophecy made centuries earlier, marking the first advent of the King of Kings in humble surroundings. Isaiah's prophecy, though it speaks of the broader nature of Christ’s first advent, also points to His humble arrival in the world:
"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Second Advent: The Glorious Return of Christ
While His first coming was humble, the second coming will be in power and glory for all to see. Jesus Himself prophesied His return in Matthew 24:30:
"Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This prophecy points to a visible, dramatic return of Jesus Christ, something that will be witnessed by all the tribes of the earth. It marks the beginning of the fulfillment of the Messianic Kingdom when Christ will reign on earth.

The Book of Revelation echoes this same truth in Revelation 1:7:
"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen." This passage gives us an even more specific description: "every eye will see Him", emphasizing the universality of His return. It also reminds us that His return will be met with mourning, particularly for those who rejected Him, because His coming will signify the judgment of the world.

The prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14 speaks of the Son of Man being given authority, glory, and a kingdom:
"I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed." This passage emphasizes the glory of the Messiah’s second coming and the eternal reign He will establish. The clouds of heaven again symbolize divine majesty and the glory in which Christ will return, and the kingdom He will establish will never end.

The Book of Zechariah also foretells the dramatic second advent:
"And the Lord will be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be—'The Lord is one, and His name one.'" (Zechariah 14:9) This points to a time when Jesus will reign as King over all the earth. His return will usher in a time of universal reign, where the whole world will acknowledge Him as Lord.

In Luke 21:27-28, Jesus Himself speaks about His return:
"Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." This passage echoes the imagery of clouds and the glorious return of Jesus. The message is clear: when we see the signs unfolding, we are to look up, for our redemption is near. His return will be a moment of ultimate salvation and judgment.

The contrast between Jesus' first advent and His second advent is stark. His first coming was humble, marked by Bethlehem's star, a small town in Judea, and witnessed by shepherds, wise men, and a small circle of people. He came to offer peace and salvation through His life, death, and resurrection, fulfilling prophecies like Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2, and others that foretold a coming Messiah who would suffer for the sins of the world. His second coming, however, will be a public display of glory, witnessed by all people, seen in clouds of power and majesty, accompanied by judgment and the establishment of God's eternal kingdom. Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 emphasize the visibility of His return, ensuring that every eye will see Him, from the greatest to the least.

Thus, we see that the first advent brought peace, while the second advent will bring judgment and glory. Jesus’ first coming was as a humble servant, but in His second coming, He will return as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, fulfilling the promises made through the prophets of old.

Thank you for sharing. I believe your explanation.

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Interesting preterist argument

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