Many make the mistake of thinking that women are not to teach in the body of Christ.

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afaithfulone4u

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But that is because they are not understanding that spiritual Jerusalem is not of the flesh. And there are no genders in the spirit for we are all one in Christ Jesus and the Spirit was poured out on all.

John 3:5-6
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV
Gal 3:26-29
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ HAVE put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV
 

day

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Paul stated that he would not allow a woman to teach. Women in his day were not educated like the men to read and study the Torah. Plus among the Gentiles there were the female oracles in the temples and he wanted a clean break from pagan practices. Today those reasons no longer exist.
 

Suhar

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day said:
Paul stated that he would not allow a woman to teach. Women in his day were not educated like the men to read and study the Torah. Plus among the Gentiles there were the female oracles in the temples and he wanted a clean break from pagan practices. Today those reasons no longer exist.
Same kind of reasoning is used by "christian" homosexuals.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Suhar said:
Same kind of reasoning is used by "christian" homosexuals.
This is not about men lusting after men... why do you think the son's of God saw the daughters of men and took them wives? Because there is no gender in heaven they are all male. The body of Christ is all male for our head is male. We are brothers made in the exact image of Christ meaning attributes of God.

But speaking of that:
Christians who believe that it is ok to practice homosexuality once coming to Christ are in error. We are all one in the same in the Spirit being spiritually reborn, but not in the flesh.
God divided the MAN into two, male and female who become one flesh for the purpose companionship at first but then for reproducing young and in this world we do still have a flesh body.. but in our spiritual bodies we will no longer bear natural children in the world to come and the only true children are the spiritual children that we birth in Christ now, rather they are our natural children or not. It is only the spirit that can inherit the kingdom of God.. not the flesh and blood.
Rom 1:25-32
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
KJV
Angelina said:
There is no such thing as a Christian homosexual....you are either a Christian [who no-longer practices homosexuality] or your a homosexual... :huh:
Exactly!
 

afaithfulone4u

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Suhar said:
This is why saying "it was for those times" is not just a slippery slope but an extremely steep waterslide.
I see what you are saying but I believe Paul was meaning that the husband is to be the spiritual head of his household over the woman to teach her what was taught in the assembly.

Yet if you are a wife in a marriage with one who is an unbeliever then Christ is your head of household for your unbelieving husband does not understand the things of God. Yet we are to be obedient pertaining to things our husbands ask of us that are not contrary to God's Word. Just as we are to obey the government.. unless it is opposing the Word of God just like the example given of Daniel and the lion's den. We should always pray for God to guide our husbands to make godly decisions for his family so that we do not have to disobey God's Word that says wives obey your husbands. Since God ordained it that way, we will be doing our husband a favor by seeking God to guide him for OUR good and his good now also for there is blessing in obedience.

But when we have the Spirit of adoption, we are being conformed into the image of Christ and there is neither male nor female for we are serving the Lord in our spirit man which has no gender.
 

Suhar

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afaithfulone4u said:
I see what you are saying but I believe Paul was meaning that the husband is to be the spiritual head of his household over the woman to teach her what was taught in the assembly.

.
You can believe what you want and take chances with your eternal life. I do not want to take chances with mine. If it says NO I read and understand it as no and not maybe.
 

day

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Suhar said:
Same kind of reasoning is used by "christian" homosexuals.
They will use any reasoning to justify their desires. However you misunderstood what I was trying to say because I did not add another text that would perhaps have made it clearer. In Romans 14 Paul states that our freedom in faith should not cause a weaker brother to stumble. In that culture where there was issues over Jewish and Gentile believers even sitting down to eat together, a woman standing up to read or teach would have been unthinkable. I am saying Paul was adapting to a weaker brother of that time, and saying that we don't need to keep adapting to a weakness that not longer exists.

Spiritually we have no gender. It is just a role useful for procreation in this life. However at 60+ years of age I find it very hard to feel comfortable with a woman priest (Episcopal). I am very much a product of my upbringing and wish that the church could accomodate my generation but it does not look like things are going that way.
 

Suhar

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day said:
They will use any reasoning to justify their desires. However you misunderstood what I was trying to say because I did not add another text that would perhaps have made it clearer. In Romans 14 Paul states that our freedom in faith should not cause a weaker brother to stumble. In that culture where there was issues over Jewish and Gentile believers even sitting down to eat together, a woman standing up to read or teach would have been unthinkable. I am saying Paul was adapting to a weaker brother of that time, and saying that we don't need to keep adapting to a weakness that not longer exists.

Spiritually we have no gender. It is just a role useful for procreation in this life. However at 60+ years of age I find it very hard to feel comfortable with a woman priest (Episcopal). I am very much a product of my upbringing and wish that the church could accomodate my generation but it does not look like things are going that way.
And yet in your desire and "freedom" to add to Bible what is not there you do try to make weaker brother stumble by using the same "it was for those times" argument that made many others stumble too.

Spirit is part of your being not all of it.

Bible makes many people uncomfortable.
 

afaithfulone4u

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So Suhar, Can you give me two or three witnesses in scripture that claim women are not to be teachers?
As far as the Bible says these are the gifts for the body of Christ and since the Bible says there is neither male nor female RECOGNIZED in the body of Christ then how is it that you say that the Bible is not true?

Eph 4:11-16
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
KJV
 

Suhar

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afaithfulone4u said:
So Suhar, Can you give me two or three witnesses in scripture that claim women are not to be teachers?
As far as the Bible says these are the gifts for the body of Christ and since the Bible says there is neither male nor female RECOGNIZED in the body of Christ then how is it that you say that the Bible is not true?
Why do you need two or three?
Ten commandmens were given once.

Where does it say that?
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

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You're right in saying woman can teach within the body of Christ. However, it's limited to other females and children. Of course the other females is determined by context.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Suhar said:
Why do you need two or three?
Ten commandmens were given once.

Where does it say that?
The ten commandments may have been given once but they are mentioned more that 2 or 3 times throughout the Bible. But to say something is a doctrine truth, we must have 2 or 3 witnesses in scripture. This also is meant for judgment of guilt or innocence, but you must have confirmation of a scripture truth being said 2 or 3 times before it is a doctrine truth.

Deut 19:15
15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
KJV
2 Cor 13:1
13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
KJV

Aren't all disciples commanded to go into all the world and PREACH the gospel of the kingdom to the lost? Or did you think that it just says MEN?

Also did you see that in the story of JOB that sons and daughter's were all called YOUNG MEN?
Job 1:18-19
18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
KJV

And how is it that the Church calls themselves THE BRIDE of Christ as in FEMALE , so wouldn't that mean that men are considered women as well? We are to be walking in the Spirit and there is no gender in Christ but he is considered as Male.
Yet I understand that it is heavenly Jerusalem that is the Bride and the saint's righteous acts are HER WHITE wedding gown of holiness, faithfulness of the City to the Father and the saints are the children that the Spirit teaches to obey the Voice of the Father.He is not coming for a bride.. he is coming to gather his holy VIRGIN body born in his image.

Rev 14:1-5
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
KJV
Isa 62:4-7
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy SONS marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
KJV
 

Suhar

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How about you answer the question?

Where does it say "Bible says there is neither male nor female RECOGNIZED in the body of Christ.
 

afaithfulone4u

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Suhar said:
How about you answer the question?

Where does it say "Bible says there is neither male nor female RECOGNIZED in the body of Christ"
Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV
Eph 2:15
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
KJV
1 Cor 12:27-31
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
KJV
1 Cor 12:18-20
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
KJV

Let me ask you, do you believe Jesus was a male or female? We are members as in feet, hands etc....
God is both male and female in attributes this is why Adam who was made in GOD'S IMAGE had both traits, but when Adam could not find a mate among THE BEAST for they are animals and he was man, God divided Adam into two yet they were still considered one in the flesh and they were still called ADAM. He made first HE HIM, and then HE THEM.

Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
KJV

Adam was the first and only man created by God in the beginning, as there was no EVE. He is not the Adam created on the 6thday in Gen. 1. The First Adam was created before all living things and Eve was created AFTER the plants and animals and taken out of Adam.

How about this, Jesus is called that LAST ADAM, not the Last Adam and Eve
1 Cor 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
 

Arnie Manitoba

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Diana .... personally I am not against women speaking or teaching in church .... as a matter of fact if it wasn't for christian women and mothers .... the churches and Sunday schools would have probably withered and died a long time ago.

But at the same time we must acknowledge that sometimes women do things based on emotions and feelings and we must be careful not to let personal feelings define scripture.

I love the following video by a christian marriage counselor ..... it is so absolutely true .... it describes perfectly the differences between men and women ..... if every couple watched this video life would be much smoother :) :) :)

The original is over one hour long .... so here is a wonderful 13 minute clip ....

,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XjUFYxSxDk
 

Suhar

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afaithfulone4u said:
Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV
Eph 2:15
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
KJV
1 Cor 12:27-31
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
KJV
1 Cor 12:18-20
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
KJV

Let me ask you, do you believe Jesus was a male or female? We are members as in feet, hands etc....
God is both male and female in attributes this is why Adam who was made in GOD'S IMAGE had both traits, but when Adam could not find a mate among THE BEAST for they are animals and he was man, God divided Adam into two yet they were still considered one in the flesh and they were still called ADAM. He made first HE HIM, and then HE THEM.

Gen 1:27
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
KJV

Adam was the first and only man created by God in the beginning, as there was no EVE. He is not the Adam created on the 6thday in Gen. 1. The First Adam was created before all living things and Eve was created AFTER the plants and animals and taken out of Adam.
How about this, Jesus is called that LAST ADAM, not the Last Adam and Eve
1 Cor 15:45-50
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
So now you quote Paul to argue against Paul?

Different parts of body serve different purpoces.

I still do not see one saying gender is not recognized.
 

horsecamp

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Women are not to have authority over men Thats why they should not pastor teach or vote

1 Corinthians 11:3 paul lets us know it was established by God in Genesis 2 Genesis 2:18

more on the subject 1 Corinthians 11:8-9 since men are the head of the women they are to lead Hebrews 13:7


teaching with authority paul reminds us is part of Gods headship princepal 1 Timothy 2:12

women ae to sbmit to that leadership
Ephesians 5:22

its not popular its just he truth There would be a lot more confessional Lutheans if it were not for the unpoplar teachings God wants us to follow
 

BLACK SHEEP

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This is probably one of the most controvercial issues in the church.

Women were ordained as deacons. The word servant is one word for deacon and minister.

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:2  That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Priscilla and her husband Aquila were workers in the church.

Romans 16:3-6  Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.

Women were the first to go to the tomb and the first to see the resurrected Christ (John 20:11-18 and were also persecuted for their faith.

There was a wealthy unmarried woman named Lydia who had church services at her home not only with her household but also with 'the brethren'

Acts 16:14-15  And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16:40  And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

Women were also persecuted.

Acts 8:3  As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

1 Corinthians 16:19  ¶The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

In the ancient world the place of women was low and the Jews had even a lower idea of them. In Jewish culture to teach the law to a women was to cast pearls before swine and it was forbidden to speak to a woman on the street. And the Corinthian church was mostly made up of Jewish believers who came out of the paganistic practices of the city of Corinth.

Paul mentions how he was taught in the Scriptures by Timothy's mother and grandmother.

Philippians 4:2-3 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Women were also able to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

We need to remember that Paul was dealing with an infant church in a paganistic city whose influence infiltrated the church. So we shouldn't take this out of context from when or who it were written. There were a host of problems in the Corinthian church including a host of sexual problems. It was filled with paganism and the city is best known for it's immorality. Much of these paganistic practices were brought into the church. Sexual sins of all kinds were commonly practiced and accepted. The city had a 1000 sacred prostitutes that would walk the streets at night. These were just some of the problems Paul had to deal with in the Corinthian church. We should not make this issue of women preachers a universal rule for the church. Women keeping their silence and usurping authority to men was more applicable to the Church at Corinth.

The gifts of the Spirit was not only avaliable to men but also to women.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:.

What seems to be prohibitted in the Corinthian church was women speaking. In the home, the teaching of men by women was prohibitted since men had authority over them in spiritual things. And this was largely influenced by Jewish culture and the background of the city of Corinth, and the condition of the church and all of it's problems. He is not prohibiting a woman from evangelizing or sharing with men since there are several instances of women having the brethren in their home. Women were responsible for bearing and teaching children and keeping the household. They had more responsibility than men at home. Couple that with the sexual issues of the Corinthian church one can understand why Paul found it fitting for women to keep silent in the Corinthian church.

Titus 2:1-5  But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Paul's conception of the role of women in the Corinthian church was influenced by the background of the age, the low status Jews held toward women, and the paganism of the city of Corinth and how that infiltrated the church. It shouldn't be a universal teaching about women in the church.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Chuch Smith said,

Paul in writing to the Corinthians mentions the women praying or prophesying in a public assembly and he doesn't come down on them for that. He doesn't say that that's prohibited. And "he that prophesies speaks to the church for edification, for comfort, for exhortation" (I Corinthians 14:3), and I see these as areas where women can minister effectively.