IMO:
I have been to Israel, and I saw this plain of Megiddo. Battles have been fought there in the past.
"Gathered the kings" (Revelation ) indicates "all the peoples in opposition," not all the kings on the planet.
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Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.
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I have been to Israel, and I saw this plain of Megiddo. Battles have been fought there in the past.
"Gathered the kings" (Revelation ) indicates "all the peoples in opposition," not all the kings on the planet.
IMO:
"World" in Revelation 26:14 is Greek της οικουμενς = '"of the inhabited land." I suppose "land" in this context would indicate "Middle East." There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times. "Armageddon" is a Greek rendering of Hebrew הר מגידו = "mount megiddo." It's a large plain in northern Israel near this mountain, and it is suitable for a battle.
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I have been to Israel, and I saw this plain. Battles have been fought there in the past.
"Kings of the whole world" (Revelation 16:14) is Greek "βασιλεις της οικουμενης ολης" = " kings of all the inhabited land" (i.e. Middle East). There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.
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I interpret "kings of all the land" (Revelation 16:14) as armies of Middle Eastern countries that become aggravated at the Beast. There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.
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"Earth" in Rev 16:14 is Greek οικουμεννς = "inhabited land." There was no concept of planet earth in New Testament times.
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Yes, there was. The whole planet is spoken of many times in the bible and people had already traveled to various places around the planet in the NT. Rome was very far away and ruled the middle east and Rome ruled a good portion of the planet.
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It doesn't say the whole world's military forces, nor would that even be by today's standards plus many non-Christians perish before the trib evemn starts so whatever militarys do end up at Armageddon could be far less than what we have in todays world.
Either way, it is presented in Rev as a literal place where this battle takes place.
There is nothing in the texts about it being symbolic of that.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
John the Baptist was beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God.
What was it he did not worship?
Luk 7:33
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
what bread, what wine?
Mat 16:6
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat 16:11
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
John opposed the system. He opposed Herod.
He was beheaded for the Truth.
When did this happen?
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Aunty Jane
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Have you looked up what “Armageddon” means in a good concordance? Or are you basing your assumptions on your own interpretation of Scripture?
According to Strongs, this is their definition of the place where Armageddon is to take place.....
- “Armageddon = "the hill or city of Megiddo"
- In Rev. 16:16 the scene of a the struggle of good and evil is suggested by that battle plain of Esdraelon, which was famous for two great victories, of Barak over the Canaanites, and of Gideon over the Midianites; and for two great disasters, the deaths of Saul and Josiah. Hence in Revelation a place of great slaughter, the scene of a terrible retribution upon the wicked. The RSV translates the name as Har-Magedon, i.e. the hill (as Ar is the city) of Megiddo.“
The Revelation is not a literal account, but is highly symbolic in its presentation......so what does this commentary tell us about the symbolism with Megiddo?
Rev 16:14, 16 says.....
“And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.” (ESV)
Now we all know that modern day rulers do not join their troops in battle, but in the safety of their elaborate dwellings, send their troops off to represent them, so we are not talking about these modern day rulers assembling for this war personally....it is their troops who demonstrate their military power and these will mistakenly assume that their military prowess and weapons will win this war in some kind of combined effort....but we all know how it ends.....so will we be on the winning side?
It cannot be a literal place....that is physically impossible.....it is a world situation....something that is orchestrated, but not by humans.
I disagree, having studied the Revelation for some time, it’s symbolisms become more apparent. Ask anyone who has read it and see if they agree on its meaning.....only God can reveal what is to be the climax between God’s appointed King and his angelic forces against the puny human efforts of satan’s crowd who are so out-gunned that its a tragedy waiting to happen. Satan and his demons end up in the abyss....
Who will be found on God’s side that day? There will be survivors....those who, like Noah, have prepared themselves for a situation where, those on board the spiritual ark will be saved....
Of the unbelievers, Peter wrote....
“For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . .But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.” (2 Peter 3:5-10 ESV)
The “day” that is coming is reserved the “judgment and destruction of the ungodly”.....the literal heaven and earth are without defect, so the new circumstances for redeemed mankind are revealed pictorially by Noah’s ark. It was the earth that was cleansed of wickedness...it was not destroyed. And there were survivors who participated in their own survival, completing a monumental task at God’s command, and it was completed exactly as God had instructed Noah. We too have work to do.....salvation is not handed to us with no provisos......even in Eden, continuing life was contingent on following God’s instructions.
Jesus too used “the days of Noah” to describe what will happen again in our day. (Matt 24:37-39)
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
There is only one John who referred to Jesus as the Lamb of God as written in the book of Revelation.
Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jhn 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
What did John say?
Mat 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Rev 5:2
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:4
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
I believe it was John the Baptist who was put in prison by Herod on the island of Patmos awaiting his day to be beheaded for the word of God.
Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I believe it was this John that recieved the Revelation that is the one crying in the wilderness,
Mat 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Jhn 1:19
And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
Jhn 1:23
He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
Mat 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Rev 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 6:1
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
No other Apostle or disciple recognize Jesus as the Lamb of God which taketh away the SIn of the world.
Only John the Baptist claimed Jesus is the Lamb of God.
Mat 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Jhn 1:19
And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
Jhn 1:23
He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
Mat 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Rev 4:1
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 6:1
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
No other Apostle or disciple recognize Jesus as the Lamb of God which taketh away the SIn of the world.
Only John the Baptist claimed Jesus is the Lamb of God.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I understand many people have different ideas of who this John is who wrote the book of Revelation.
I believe the book was given to John the Baptist.
Rev 10:8
And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 10:9
And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Rev 10:10
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Mat 3:4
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
Rev 9:3
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:7
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Mar 6:17
For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
Mar 6:21
And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;
Luk 23:11
And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
Locusts and honey. Only John the Baptist.
Hugs
I believe the book was given to John the Baptist.
Rev 10:8
And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Rev 10:9
And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Rev 10:10
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Mat 3:4
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
Rev 9:3
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:7
And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Mar 6:17
For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
Mar 6:21
And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;
Luk 23:11
And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
Locusts and honey. Only John the Baptist.
Hugs
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Ziggy...John was beheaded by Herod before Jesus died......the Revelation was written by the last surviving apostle John, at the close of the first century......it could not have been written by John B.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
That's what they say.
It was written, but the book was given.
Rev 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Jhn 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Jhn 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 1:34
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Which John is speaking here?
Jhn 1:28
These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
I'm just connecting the dots.
I know what they say....
Hugs
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Maybe it was John Lennon. Lots of John's to choose from when you reject the actual one.
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A typical misrepresentation. Rev has literal and symbolic language. Most of it is literal. Select parts have a high amount of symbolic language but the majority of the book is plain and literal.
Not in this case because the kings die with their armies according to Rev 19.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I invite you to state your case.
BTW "earth" in the New Testament is typically Greek γη = land.
"Earth" in the old Testament is typically Hebrew ארץ = land.
There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times.
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