Freedom : From Sin

Behold said:

Perhaps if you were a bit wider in your thinking, regarding your posted comment....then you might comprehend that its impossible to teach all of Paul's Doctrine, in a single Thread's Topic.
He has ALL the Church Doctrine, as found in his 13 Epistles, and the "part about Salvation" is only a part.

So, what IS possible and what is needful, is to lay the basics......pour the doctrinal foundation.....instruct the Believers according to the basic principals of Paul's Soteriology (Salvation) teaching.......so that once this is truly found in them as their FAITH, then the rest of Paul's Theology may be understood by them, as well.
But until this happens.......until they receive the "first principles" of Paul's Core Doctrine by revelation, then there is no reason to go beyond "the simplicity in Christ".

And @PS95 .......if you truly understood this, then you'd be on YOUR THREAD teaching it, instead of coming to mine to do nothing more then offer false analysis and false innuendo.

Thats your reality.



Are you that person? That Homosexual? Am i counsling "Him", as your question is more then just an immature offer of "Gotchabait"... its in fact quite a "Queer" question, fella.

So, regarding a "practicing" sodomite.......who claims to be a Christian.....

Billy Graham had an answer for that.......as He was asked......>"What if your Child (saved) told you they were Gay".
His answer is profound...........BG said.......>"i love that one more".

See, the answer to your QUEER question, is not to bolt the door and hide the children... (not necessarily) .
So, what i would do with you, or with any "alt sex lifestyle" .... supposed "christian" is find out first of all if you are really born again , or just religious but lost, and able to quote verses.
Lot of that "type" found on "christian forums".
Id find out if you're born again, as there is ample evidence that if a person is a practicing sinner, then in fact they are not truly born again.
They are religious, and they can speak "christian-eze",, but they are not redeemed by Jesus's Blood yet.

So, we need to get that resolved, and then God will help them OUT of their immoral lifestyle.....and that can take some time.

If you want to know if i would allow a known practicing Homosexual into the congregation..... then i just explained to you how they can qualify for that opportunity.

Click to expand...

All I did was ask a question. Will you answer it? Ok so you allow him in the cong and just ignore his "performance"? How would you "counsel" that person. You call yourself a teacher, right, and a pastor?

Behold said:

I answered you, clearly, already.

I explained that my "council" is to find out if you @PS95 , or this homosexual were practicing "Gay sexuality", and you or them also claimed to be A Christian, .......and im in charge of the situation,.. Im the help.... so then we are going to find out if Salvation has occurred, in this case.
And from there, we take the next necessary steps.
I explained to you that when a so called "Christian" is practicing deep sinful behavior....like Gay Sexuality....then its not certain that thay are born again., which explains their core behavioral issue.

I even used an example given by Billy Graham as he was also asked a similar "gotcha" question.
Its a very common ploy used by carnal hyper religious self righteous people.

Im more often asked by this type....>"well if they murder someone after they are saved, are they still FORGIVEN"......

Like that.......same type "gotcha" nonsense, pretending to be a sincere question, asked by someone who knows little to nothing about what Jesus has finished on The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

For me this is a gigantic YAWN type of question......but for the members here who are following my Thread but are not posting, they are just watching and trying to figure it all out... , i try to be obligated to them, for their sake.... to answer even the most foolish questions that people like you, will post.
Did you want to post it again, and pretend a little longer that you've not been answered?

Click to expand...

It's not a gotcha question. It's a question to get you to think- since you always say "performance" after being "saved" does not matter.
Of course it does- as you've just shown. You can't be saved and live in sins.
Performance can't save you but if you are saved you will not live that way any longer. Jesus changes people.
No homos or murderers, idolaters etc-- will be in the kingdom of God, remember? Paul said that more than once.

I have given you all sorts of horrid hypotheticals of people claiming to be saved and yet- leaving the faith, living in all sorts of sins and dying rejecting Jesus on here- to which you always say they are STILL SAVED.

It's not just a head knowledge believing -- it will be SEEN in behavior also.
We can not be workers of lawlessness, call Jesus our Lord- and expect to be saved! Why can't you accept what Jesus said?
WE WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS,

OR is- there is no moral law we should obey.. according to you? Which is it?

Behold said:

You need to start being honest @PS95

Listen, Ive never stated that discipleship.....(performance after you are saved) does not matter.

What i stated is that God is not interested in your works......He's interested in your Faith.
If you own a bible, then read a NT verse .. Heb 11:6.... that says that you = please God by your faith.... or you can't please Him.
So, a Christian's works are just the fruit of their Faith.
The Works are not the root.
The ROOT is the Faith that allows God to bloom the works through the Believer ... as "fruit".

Reader, take note that.......Religious people obsess about works and Law, and Real Christians are devoted to faith + obedience.

If you own a bible, and you read JAMES.......>>He says that our works prove our faith......but not before God.
Our works prove our faith is not DEAD.........before other PEOPLE, is what James teaches., when he's discussing "dead faith".
God already knows all about your faith, as He can see your HEART @PS95.... He sees your innermost MOTIVES.



We were all of us...... living in Sin, until the very instant that God saved us.... "while we were yet sinners".

It interesting that self righteous people forgot that they were doing NO WORKS for God, during their LIFETIME of SINNING< and then one day, they Trusted in Christ and God saved them, eternally.
Later they are all caught up in Moses Law and .... "look at my works".... "Let me tell you about my SELF righteousness" behavior.
Do you see their problem?
They dont see it... at all.



Yes, i previously explained this to you 2x when i answered your question 2x, about the "Gay" person.
I told you 2x, that if they are practicing sin as a lifestyle , then more then likely they are not truly saved.

There is a 3rd option....... they are truly saved, and they are like DEMAS....of whom the NT declared.... "loved this present world".
Now he was born again, but made a bad decision.
And according to Paul.........if you do that........if you decide to go back and live in deep dark sinful pleasure....not just watching say... an occasional "R" rated Netflix episode or having too much wine.......or .....you get the picture......but if a born again Believer decides to return 100% into the world, into total carnality... TO LIVE IN IT........then Paul says......>"you will die".
So, dont try that one Reader.... as there is no mental torment that is worse then to be on your death bed, WIDE AWAKE.... believing that you are about to go to Hell.



Paul was not speaking about born again Christians, in that verse you partly posted.
The fact is......... the KOG is also made up of saved sinners, and some of them were practicing Homosexuals, and even worse.

See, .. "Jesus came into the world to save sinners"......and we all qualified.
We've all broken all the 10 Commandments by word, deed, or thought.
Therefore.......Everyone is pre-qualified to receive God's Gift of Salvation, because...>"ALL have sinned, there is none righteous.......No NOT ONE"..

Being a sinner is what pre-qualifies us for Etneral life, and """ the Gift of Righteousness".



You are connecting me to your religious point of view, and that shoe wont fit me, @PS95 .

Here is what you need to try to understand.

A.) A person who is born again, was not born again because they deserved it..

AA.) A person, a Believer who is born again, can never stop being born again.

Being born again is an ETERNAL BIRTH.....>"in Christ".

Being born again, is the only PROOF that a person is a Christian.., as everything else can be faked and God knows that Forums like this one are filled with religious fakirs who obsess on LAW and COMMANDMENTS and Self Righteous WORKS.



The NT teaches (Paul teaches) that a minister of the Devil will FAKE being a Christian, as that is how they deceive you.
They will endless talk about "chrisitan topics".. often they want to discuss "righteousness" but they can't connect it to The Cross, because they've never personally met Jesus there.........so, their rightoueness theology is always based on them keeping law and commandments and trying to be GOOD......and none of that is God's Righteousness.



Every believer should (morally) live inside the 10 commandments as they are a lifestyle boundary, but they can't save you.
And that is because Moses Law and The 10 Commandments, DEMAND righteousness from you......but are unable to provide it to you.

Only God can provide righteousness to a sinner, and He does this by "imputing righteousness" unto a Believer, as Paul teaches in Romans and Ephesians and Galatians, for example.

If you own a bible then open it to Romans 3:26, and read that God declares His """own righteousness"" unto a Believer, and that its """God who justifies all who believe in Jesus.""""

Then read Vs 22, where Paul teaches that God's Righteousness comes to all who have "FAITH in Christ"...

then read Vs 20, where Paul teaches that "no person can be justified by The LAW, before God"......and that is because the Law and 10 Commandments can only define you as a SINNER before God.

God's Salvation is "Justification by Faith"......as Paul teaches.

Reader......God's Salvation is Jesus on The Cross, and that is not a WORK you can do, and its not a Law or a Commandment you can keep.

Click to expand...

Ah, so you are an evangelist.....that's why your focus is on the starting point.....the milk of the word. Except you need to stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater......because after being established in the first principles of the faith, new believers need to begin to become disciplined disciples and to grow and take more ground in their life/heart. For that one needs to begin chewing on harder to digest strong meat, as well as to undergo chastisements of the Lord which help to purge and purify us. Those that remain camped out on the shore of the Red Sea resting on their laurels after escaping "Egypt" instead of picking up stakes and continuing to move onward in the Lord are at greater risk of deception. The "young" are always more vulnerable to becoming a prey to every wind of doctrine. No growth equates to no life, a state of unhealthiness, but where there is growth there is life.

Constant reassurances past the point of needing them as infants just spoils the child........spare the rod and spoil the child. That's what most churches have become, nurseries for infants. Children need the rod of discipline as they grow. They need to be challenged and encouraged and taught to do better, to grow and become better, not constantly petted and comforted and reassured, and having others change their diapers long past the point of needing it. We're not seeing too many who have attained to the full stature of Christ are we? Have we even met a single one in our life...?....it's far too rare, partially attributable to the comfort and ease of the age we have been living in I believe....which churches are reflecting.

if Christ did it all for us and there is nothing we do then why does Jesus Himself and scripture say we must do it?

I'm not saying He did not suffer and die, I am saying it is to give us union with him, and to suffer with and for Him!

the remedy for sin according to scripture is union with Christ and suffering!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

(grace enables us to do the will of God) ez 36:25-27

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

(suffering)

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.


Jn 13:16
No servant is greater than his master.

Matt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

(Christian called to life of suffering)

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Jn 15:1-6

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

(Patience Implies suffering)

Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Romans 5:3-5

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)

(resist)

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

(suffering)

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

key verse!

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

(in glory )

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

thks

faithhopecharity said:

if Christ did it all for us and there is nothing we do then why does Jesus Himself and scripture say we must do it?

I'm not saying He did not suffer and die, I am saying it is to give us union with him, and to suffer with and for Him!

the remedy for sin according to scripture is union with Christ and suffering!

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

(grace enables us to do the will of God) ez 36:25-27

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

(suffering)

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.


Jn 13:16
No servant is greater than his master.

Matt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

(Christian called to life of suffering)

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Jn 15:1-6

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

(Patience Implies suffering)

Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Romans 5:3-5

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)

(resist)

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

(suffering)

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

key verse!

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

(in glory )

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

thks

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You quote a lot of good verses from Paul that teaches how a saved believer should lead their lives.
What verses from Paul do you believe teach how a person today is saved & sealed in the first place including any performance conditions.