Gal 2:2 why did Paul need to teach Peter THAT Gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 revealed to Paul if Peter already knew it ?
Gal 2:7-9 Who are you in those verses and who is the apostle that is sent to you ? :)
Does Grace replace the law?
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Gal 2:7-9 Who are you in those verses and who is the apostle that is sent to you ? :)
Paul didn’t need to teach Peter, and we know that because he didn’t.
Gal 2:2 I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.
Paul wanted to confirm with the other apostles, likely including Peter, that he was teaching the true gospel. Paul is likely referring to Acts 15:
Act 15:2 And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.
…
Act 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,
Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
Peter had converted Gentiles before Paul ever did and confirmed that Gentiles and Jews “will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus.”
Neither are sent to me. They both died almost 2,000 years ago. Again, I think your idea of apostleship is incorrect. In no way whatsoever does it mean that we aren’t to follow the teachings of others besides Paul. God essentially put Paul in charge of bringing the gospel to the Gentiles and establish churches, to ensure the work would get done. It does not at all mean that Gentiles are to only follow Paul.
We know this because Paul says that “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” More than that, Paul himself also says:
1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
That really should end the discussion.
JF said ""Paul didn’t need to teach Peter, and we know that because he didn’t.
Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles
Christ by revelation sent Paul to communicate THAT gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 revealed to Paul
If Peter taught the same then there was no need for Christ to send Paul to Peter to explain it.
Looking forward to your next theory :)
@Justified, @PeterAndroz , Is Paul's Gospel Any different from Christ's gospel? Did the 12 disciples of Christ preach something different than Paul?
Behold
Well-Known Member
So, where does the Heresy begin for the Christian?
It begins as soon as you say,,,,"yes, but here is what i have to do, to keep myself saved" "to keep from losing my salvation".
"Here is what i have to do, to not lose my salvation".
So, do you see what is going on in the MIND, = inside the deceived MIND of the hyper religious "trying to imitate Christ"... Heretic?
Here is what is going on..
"I dont actually trust Jesus to Keep me saved".......and that is why i talk about what i have to DO, instead.
Do you see it yet @PS95 ?
See, the Heretic will agree that Jesus BEGINS... = STARTS their Salvation and then they they become deceived .
(Paul refers to this in Galatians as "falling from GRACE"//.....as this person is not trusting in Christ to KEEP THEM SAVED..
A Heretic does not believe........= "Jesus KEEPS ME SAVED"......... not my confessing sin, or keeoing commandments or doing good works.
So, that is where the dividing line exists between those who are deceived by the Devil, tho they are born again, vs, those who have "worked our their salvation" by understaning that Salvation is not what you do, its Jesus Himself that you receive by faith.
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PS95
Well-Known Member
You ignored my reply as usual. Here is another chance-
You consistently say nothing you do after matters.. Sure it does. . Do you suppose that a brother who is forgiven many sins who goes off and doesn't forgive his brother some sin - will not be severely punished? Is this too pre-cross for you and thereby ignored by you? I sure hope not.
Matthew 18
21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23“For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24“When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25“But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26“So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27“And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28“But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29“So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30“But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31“So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32“Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
Once again, a plain reading of the text shows that Paul went to speak to the apostles to ensure that he was speaking the true gospel. Stop taking things out of context; you do yourself and your listeners no favours by doing so.
Is there a reason why you are continually ignoring the passages I give? That is very dishonest.
No and no. They all taught the same gospel because there only has ever been one.
Let's compare :-
How to be saved Gospel verses according to Paul :-
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13.
Your turn:-
How to be saved Gospel verses according to the 12 :-
Behold
Well-Known Member
No, ive never said that "nothing you do matters".
So, being Honest is someting You can try to do, the next time you decide to post some more Legalism.
Think on that @PS95.
Now, what Paul teaches and what Christians have to learn, is that they were saved= "while you are yet sinners"., and not because you were sweating it out trying to keep commandments and confess sin and never miss a Sunday Service.
And they have to learn "to him that WORKETH NOT....... (no works involved).......but BELIEVTH in GOD.... = who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY""""""....... (ungodly means God justifies a SINNER)....
And how? ???
"their FAITH....... (faith in Christ) is counted by GOD.......as (Christ's righteousness)....0n their
Behalf".
Reader the only reason a person can become a CHRISTian and go to Heaven, is because God has given them "Christ's Righteousness" as "the imputed righteousness".
So, we see that God eternally justifies....= the UNGODLY.....= the SINNER..
Read this verse in a KJV.....and learn what Christ has BECOME UNTO every Believer........ 1 Corin 1:30.
And why?
= Because They gave God their FAITH in Christ ONE TIME.........just once, and God accepted their FAITH to accept them based on Christ's Finished Work on The Cross.
Now, the CHRISTIAN, has to learn that.....= they have to come to the understanding that God justifies not the hard worker, and NOT the good deed doer and NOT the commandment keeping religious PERFORMER.
= NO........... God JUSTIFIES the SINNER.......the "UNGODLY"............because and only because they have GIVEN GOD THEIR FAITH IN CHRIST....
A.) = Eternal = "JUSTIFICATION by FAITH"
Now, the "heretic" cannot understand that the "UNGODLY SINNER" has been JUSTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS.........and because they can't get this revelation, they just continue to obsess on OSAS nonsense while the try to WORK and commmandment keep, to try to get God to save them and KEEP THEM...........and He wont do it.......as God's SALVATION is created for the "UNGODLY SINNER" who comes to CHRIST and RECEIVES from God.
1.) "The GIFT of Salvation":
2.) ""The Gift of Righteousness"
3.) "" The Gift of Eternal life"
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salvation was not the question, the gospel message I meant. Yeshua, Paul's and the original disciples had the same gospel . Paul phrased it differently but if you dig deeper and look closely, the same.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The "origianal" 12 Apostles were in the same ministry with Jesus The Lord......which was only to the JEWS. (The House of Israel).
So, at that time, before Jesus died on The Cross to create the "body of Christ" (Christianity) it didn't exist.......so, there was no Paul's Gospel then, as Paul was not even a Christian when Christ was only ministering to the "house of Israel" = the JEW.
In fact Christianity didnt even EXIST when Jesus and the 12 were only dealing with the JEWS....."the house of Israel".
Later, when Jesus died on The Cross to create the Body of Christ by becoming the "new covenant and the "blood atonement".......Paul was called into the Ministry that is based only on THE CROSS which was not available when Jesus was in HIS earthly ministry with the 12, that was given to the "Jew" only. (House of Israel).
Paul's Gospel, is "the Gospel of the Grace of God".....>"we Preach CHRIST CRUCIFIED".........so, this informs us that what Jesus was preaching while he was alive and only dealing with the JEWS.......is not what Paul was preaching to "as many as will BELIEVE" that is ONLY BASED on THE CROSS of CHRIST that was not yet given when Jesus and the 12 were ONLY dealing with the "house of Israel" the JEW, during Jesus's 3.5 yrs of Ministry, = BEFORE = He died on THE Cross to create a "new covenant" and the "new Testament" and the "body of Christ".. the NT "Church".
Behold, Jesus, at the appointed time, sent the disciples and Paul all to ALL nations to preach and teach EVERYTHING He ( Yeshua the Son of God, the Messiah, having all authority in Heaven and on earth ) did and said to ALL nations, why to you remove scripture spoken by Jesus.
Here it is for all to see including yourself;
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
and again;
Mrk 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
Mrk 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
And More;
Luk 24:46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,
Luk 24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 You are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
Behold, if you do not believe what I write, fine. but at least Believe the words Spoken by Christ from this post. Will you?
Please do not harden your heart on this. All you currently beliefs depends on this: Jesus sent them all to the gentiles to preach what he did and said, it is written.
Peace.
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PS95
Well-Known Member
I'm no legalist. lol Seems you falsely accuse in order to avoid answering. Here ya go Behold- 3x times now. There should be NO reason for any of us to avoid the scriptures.
You consistently say nothing you do after matters.. Sure it does. . Do you suppose that a brother who is forgiven many sins who goes off and doesn't forgive his brother some sin - will not be severely punished? Is this too pre-cross for you and thereby ignored by you? I sure hope not.----
Matthew 18
21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
23“For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24“When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25“But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made. 26“So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27“And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28“But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29“So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30“But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31“So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32“Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
Where are the verses from the 12 that teach how you are saved ?
Here are the ones from Paul :-
Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Verses do the talking :)
Your turn
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Paul Jesus Peter James Matt Mark Luke and John all taught the same gospel. Salvation by grace through faith.. Thats been the gospel since adam..
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
How about John 1: 12, John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6.
John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
Brakelite
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Brakelite
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That's true. But it only condemns those who teabags the law. No law condemns those who are innocent.
I liked your entire post but would like to modify the above. Curtsy accomplished all that was necessary for the world to be saved. Through the atoning blood, man has the opportunity to seek forgiveness and begin a relationship with Jesus. However, the full complete work of Atonement didn't finish at the cross.
The OT sanctuary services were a type of the NT reality and fulfillment of those services. For example, we are all familiar with the passover being fulfilled by the sacrifice at Calvary. Add to that the numerous sin offerings throughout the Hebrew calender, with Jesus bearing it all. However, the priest after taking the blood of the sacrifice, sprinkled it upon the altar inside the tabernacle. He also ate some oh the meat, transferring in type the sin to himself which he then deposited inside the tent. This took place every day throughout the year, building up a record of sin before God in His temple.
Our sins are also recorded in reality in the books of heaven. Once a year the high priest went through the ritual of the day of Atonement to "cleanse the sanctuary"" of all the sins of the children of Israel. Jesus, after the resurrection, also entered the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest there to minister as our Mediator before the throne of the Father. There also, He must : cleanse the sanctuary" of all the sins of all those who accepted Him as the Saviour, and have faith in His ongoing ministry sanctifying and finishing the work He began on Calvary in the individual lives of those who surrender themselves to His Spirit.
The wrork of Atonement will only be complete when our High Priest leaves the heavenly sanctuary and returns here to take His children home.
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