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Thanks. It just looked from the part of his post you quoted (about heaven) and your reply as though you thought people could sin in heaven. I'm glad you don't think that, and I apologise for misunderstanding.
DO YOU STILL BELIEVE BAPTISM IS NOT REQUIRED for sin cleansing?The word is choked and therefore does not produce a renewed spiritual life in the person. OSAS vs. NOSAS (believing you can or cannot lose your salvation) is not the gospel. The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
Not saved - lest they should believe and be saved.
Now even though this stony ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"? Because this is a shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Faith without works is dead. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel (emotional response) without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established, consumated belief resulting in salvation." *Unlike saving belief, shallow, temporary belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit (Luke 8:6,13) represent saving belief? It doesn't. Also, the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.
In the case of the thorny ground hearer, the plant was never firmly rooted and established in which it could produce fruit (even though there was motion and movement toward becoming an established plant) but it was choked out before reaching its desired goal because the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful, bears no fruit, yields nothing. (Mark 4:19)
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So, only the 4th soil in the parable of the Sower was referred to as good ground that produced a crop/fruit and there is no mention of being scorched, choked out or withering away afterwards.
His Word takes root (in contrast with no root and choked out) is the key.
Cleansing of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16
Yes. Baptism is not required for sin cleansing because baptism is not the cause of sin cleansing.
Heard and received the word without taking root falls short of seed being sown on the good soil which are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, some thirtyfold and some sixtyfold and some a hundredfold.” (Mark 4:20) That's the real difference!
All of your name calling and false accusations are feeble attempts to protect your false doctrine. I have found that all false religions and cults which promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which remains a major red flag for me.
The Word ONLY took firm root in the good ground, which represents one who not only heard and received the word, but also accepted it and bears fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixtyfold and some a hundredfold.” What happened to fruit bearing in the rocky and thorny soil?
No firm root =:no salvation. Hearing and receiving the word with joy (emotional response) does not cut it. A shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away is not saving belief. Period.
Even make believers in false religions and cults can claim to confess Jesus as their Lord and Savior. When God's Word took root in me 28 years ago on a Saturday night, I wasted no time confessing Jesus as Lord by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3) with my hands raised in the air.
I did not sit around for a while waiting for God's Word to take root after I believed the gospel or to bear fruit. Bearing good fruit is the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.
Jesus was not lying when He said, "you shall know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:20) and He was also not lying when He said, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."
I have never heard anybody say that heaven is a place where we can continue to sin, or even want to do so. The devil is not there to tempt anyone to sin. Revelation tells us that those in heaven will be serving their Saviour day and night, in other word, all the time:
@Dan Clarkston
There are plenty of Bible verses teaching us that saved people, Christians, have everlasting life, and that their citizenship is in heaven. I cannot think of any Scripture that even hints that a saved person can be cast out of heaven. The fallen angels were cast out, but they were not saved.
Fallen angels were in heaven when they sinned. Fallen human beings were on earth when they sinned. Saved human beings have their sins paid for and dealt with by their Saviour. Satan and temptation are not in heaven. The idea that someone could go to heaven, sin there, and be cast out, is not found in the Bible, as far as I am aware. Nor do we read of any possibility of fallen angels being saved.
The notion of saved sinners being accepted into heaven and then sinning there and being cast out is just not biblical. John wrote to Christians:
