It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

WPM · 2026-09-15T10:47:23-0500

CrowCross said:
What color is the horse in Rev 19:11??? White, red, black or aspen?

Can you present one of your alleged 22 supporting texts of your opinion of Rev 19 that you say supports a 3rd coming of Jesus that mention a white horse?
Can you present the 22 verses (or similar) speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation?
Can you present the about 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church?

CrowCross · 2026-09-15T10:50:02-0500

WPM said:
More avoidance. Scripture forbids what you have been taught. Your avoidance reinforces the Op.

Let me ask it this way....what color is the horse described in Acts 1 that Jesus rode up to heaven on?
What color is the horse described in 1 Thes 4:15-17?

CrowCross · 2026-09-15T10:51:36-0500

WPM said:
Can you present one of your alleged 22 supporting texts of your opinion of Rev 19 that you say supports a 3rd coming of Jesus that mention a white horse.

Do I have to cut and paste Rev 19:11 for you?

WPM · 2026-09-15T10:55:55-0500

CrowCross said:
Do I have to cut and paste Rev 19:11 for you?

LOL. You are supporting your faulty opinion of Revelation 19 with your faulty opinion of Revelation 19? LOL. Typical! That shows us you have zero corroboration. Just as i predicted!!!

WPM · 2026-09-15T10:58:09-0500

CrowCross said:
Do I have to cut and paste Rev 19:11 for you?

Now you have avoided question 1, I will try 2 and 3. I do not expecte anything further with Pretrib avoiders.

Can you present the 22 verses (or similar) speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation?
Can you present the about 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church?

CrowCross · 2026-09-15T11:18:49-0500

WPM said:
Now you have avoided question 1, I will try 2 and 3. I do not expecte anything further with Pretrib avoiders.

Can you present the 22 verses (or similar) speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation?

Can you present the about 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church?

I never said I had 22 conclusion and 25 pre verses. I said I had a total of about 25 that speaks of both. Feel free to count them.
Pre-trib...
John 14:1-3
Rom 8:19
1 Cor 1:7-8
1 Cor 15:51-53
1 Cor 16:22
Phil 3:20-21
Phil 4:5
Col 3:4
1 Thes 1:10
1 Thes 2:19
1 Thes 4:13`
1 Thes 5:9
1 Thes 5:23

Post trib..
2 Thes 2:3
1 Tim 6:1
2 Tim 4:1
2 Tim 4:8
Titus 2:13
Heb 9:28
James 5:7-9
1 Peter 1:7
1 Peter 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 21
Rev 2:25
Rev 3:10

WPM · 2026-09-15T11:21:13-0500

CrowCross said:
Pre-trib...

John 14:1-3

Rom 8:19

1 Cor 1:7-8

1 Cor 15:51-53

1 Cor 16:22

Phil 3:20-21

Phil 4:5

Col 3:4

1 Thes 1:10

1 Thes 2:19

1 Thes 4:13`

1 Thes 5:9

1 Thes 5:23

Post trib..

2 Thes 2:3

1 Tim 6:1

2 Tim 4:1

2 Tim 4:8

Titus 2:13

Heb 9:28

James 5:7-9

1 Peter 1:7

1 Peter 5:4

1 John 2:28-3:2

Jude 21

Rev 2:25

Rev 3:10

That is not 22 verses speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation.
That is no 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church.
That is 13 of each.

CrowCross · 2026-09-15T11:22:52-0500

WPM said:
LOL. You are supporting your faulty opinion of Revelation 19 with your faulty opinion of Revelation 19? LOL. Typical! That shows us you have zero corroboration. Just as i predicted!!!

When your here for the tribulation try to void this white horse rider...

2So I looked and saw a white horse, and its rider held a bow. And he was given a crown, and he rode out to overcome and conquer.

Considering how you don't quite understand what scripture says you may fall for this guys tactics.

CrowCross · 2026-09-15T11:24:18-0500

WPM said:
That is not 22 verses speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation.

That is no 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church.

That is 13 of each.

I never said the numbers you presented. Why must you present your false beliefs as truth?

Every time I give you enough rope....you hang yourself.

WPM · 2026-09-15T11:30:54-0500

CrowCross said:
I never said the numbers you presented. Why must you present your false beliefs as truth?

Every time I give you enough rope....you hang yourself.

Really? What is this?

CrowCross said:
Yes I could post 22 verses speaking of the return of Jesus at the conclusion of the tribulation.
I could also post about 25 verses concerning the pre-trib rapture of the Church....Let's say almost 50 verses speaking of BOTH returns.

WPM · 2026-09-15T11:37:55-0500

CrowCross said:
I never said I had 22 conclusion and 25 pre verses. I said I had a total of about 25 that speaks of both. Feel free to count them.
Pre-trib...
John 14:1-3
Rom 8:19
1 Cor 1:7-8
1 Cor 15:51-53
1 Cor 16:22
Phil 3:20-21
Phil 4:5
Col 3:4
1 Thes 1:10
1 Thes 2:19
1 Thes 4:13`
1 Thes 5:9
1 Thes 5:23

Post trib..
2 Thes 2:3
1 Tim 6:1
2 Tim 4:1
2 Tim 4:8
Titus 2:13
Heb 9:28
James 5:7-9
1 Peter 1:7
1 Peter 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 21
Rev 2:25
Rev 3:10

Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Timothy 6:1? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:1? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:8? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Titus 2:13? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Hebrews 9:28? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in James 5:7-9? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 1:7? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 5:4? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 John 2:28-3:2? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Jude 21? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 2:25? If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 3:10? If you can't then you must retract.

Taken · 2026-09-15T11:51:26-0500

WPM said:
All the righteous are caught up, and all the wicked are destroyed, just like it was in Noah's world, and just like it was in Sodom. That is what Jesus said.

No.

Suspected you do not understand Caught up…
Caught up applies to the Church, before the Trib,
They Raised up “off the Earth.”
Rapture

Salvation continues during the Trib,
Their body’s die on Earth are Raised up to life on Earth…
First Resurrection

JimKnox · 2026-09-15T11:52:45-0500

Taken said:
You Landed on what others Taught you.

There IS Saving of souls… daily.
You can assume that or Trust to Believe Gods Word. Period.

God has saved souls from the Beginning and Shall Continue TO the Ending of mortal life.

Christ Jesus Had a Door opened unto Him… Giving Him Authority to Save Souls.

Either… God or Jesus…Become THE “Resurrector” of the Souls They Save.

Jesus Salvation Given… falls within a specific time period…
Door Opened… Entry An Option.
Door Closed….. Entry Option Ceases.

God Resurrects… Raises all / any Remaining, After Mortal living men Cease to Exist.

Christ the Lord Resurrects…Raises all / any He Saved …
After
the Door IS Closed…
Before …
Tribulations From Heaven Begin.

Christ the Lord CLAIMING they He Saved…
Is called the Rapture.

God Claiming they He Saved…
Is called the First Resurrection.

Same Concept… Body Raising…
Different Timing…
One claimed by God…
One Claimed by Lord…

Beginning 8th Day… New World, Heaven ON Earth…ALL Saved Gathered together, One Lord God Almighty their God….
And They…His People.

That right there is some scattered stuff!
Looks like YOU are repeating what you were TAUGHT but not by God.

Taken · 2026-09-15T11:59:59-0500

WPM said:
OK. Let us try again:

Can you show us from Scripture a catching away of the Church

1 Thes. 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WPM said:
followed by any period of tribulation

Rev 6:
[1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

WPM said:
followed by a 3rd coming.

Your claim, you show the Scripture.

WPM · 2026-09-15T12:01:14-0500

CrowCross said:
Show me where Jesus left on the white horse. If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where the social economy of Noahs and Lots day are what the end of the tribulation will be like. If you can't then you must retract.

CrowCross said:
I never said I had 22 conclusion and 25 pre verses. I said I had a total of about 25 that speaks of both. Feel free to count them.
Pre-trib...
John 14:1-3
Rom 8:19
1 Cor 1:7-8
1 Cor 15:51-53
1 Cor 16:22
Phil 3:20-21
Phil 4:5
Col 3:4
1 Thes 1:10
1 Thes 2:19
1 Thes 4:13`
1 Thes 5:9
1 Thes 5:23

Post trib..
2 Thes 2:3
1 Tim 6:1
2 Tim 4:1
2 Tim 4:8
Titus 2:13
Heb 9:28
James 5:7-9
1 Peter 1:7
1 Peter 5:4
1 John 2:28-3:2
Jude 21
Rev 2:25
Rev 3:10

You set the criterion for the question previously :gd

:

CrowCross said:
Show me where Jesus left on the white horse. If you can't then you must retract.
Show me where the social economy of Noahs and Lots day are what the end of the tribulation will be like. If you can't then you must retract.

Taken · 2026-09-15T12:01:37-0500

JimKnox said:
That right there is some scattered stuff!
Looks like YOU are repeating what you were TAUGHT but not by God.

Do tell, Since you claim to know who my teacher is Not…Identify my Teacher.

JimKnox · 2026-09-15T12:05:59-0500

CrowCross said:
I never said the numbers you presented. Why must you present your false beliefs as truth?

Every time I give you enough rope....you hang yourself.

Taken said:
Do tell, Since you claim to know who my teacher is Not…Identify my Teacher.

Ditto, pal.

WPM · 2026-09-15T12:06:19-0500

Taken said:
1 Thes. 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 6:
[1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

Your claim, you show the Scripture.

There is no mention in 1 Thessalonians 4 of any period of tribulation followed by a 3rd coming. You know that. That is why you cannot show it. Also, it is not anywhere else in Gods Book. It is a Jesuit invention. 1+1+1 = 3 not 111.

Taken · 2026-09-15T12:07:44-0500

CrowCross said:
The description of when Jesus ascended is "timid"....Acts 1 describes the ascension as well as Mark 16:19 and Lukes tells of it again in Luke 24:51. Considering Jesus returns just once at the end of the tribulation...Jesus in Rev 19 return is "timid".

I don’t see a word implying a timid Ascension.

Taken · 2026-09-15T12:09:05-0500

JimKnox said:
Ditto, pal.

?
Ditto what?
I didn’t claim anything FOR you.

It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

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