riots in Europe

Marilyn C said:

God`s word says `far north` `tsaphon,` meaning - used only of the north as a quarter. (Thus my obviously Russia

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More Newspaper Eschatology speculation. Did the Lord tell you that the North is, per your 1970's teacher, the Soviet Union? Or today's Russian Federation? Of course not!

Beside, what does the "far north" (please provide the Scripture) has to do with the kingdom of Revelation 17?!

Marilyn C said:

The Prophet Daniel gives more detail.

`Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of ptter`s clay and partly of irom, the kingdom shall be divided, yet the strength of iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay.
And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; ...` (Dan. 2: 41 - 44)

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Time out. Do you know what the clay spiritually refers to in Scripture? And the Iron? How is this kingdom divided with both? Did the Lord really talking about the Shia and the Sunni? Come on! Show me the verse where the Lord says the Shia is clay or Sunni is iron or whatever?

Marilyn C said:

The Shia/Sunni conflict is marked by strength and weakness and has been going on for decades if not centuries.

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Sigh...

Marilyn C said:

Being taught in the `70`s also shows that my teachers were NOT looking at their newspapers for answers.

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Really? I am sure that they are heavily influenced by the doctrine of Hal Lindsey. :-)

Marilyn C said:

You first have to gives scriptures to show that it is a spiritual kingdom.

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LOL! And it is in the chapter of Revelation 17, right? Do you actually read the chapter as literal narrative consistently? Humm? Is the beast a literal animal with seven physical heads and ten actual horns? Is the woman literally riding it, dressed in purple and scarlet, holding a golden cup? Where do you see her, physical?

The chapter itself interprets its imagery: the heads represent authority. The horns represent power. The waters represent peoples and nations, and tongues. And the woman? Why, she represents a city (Revelation 17:9–12, 15, 18). Not physical city, but spiritual city! This is symbolism requiring interpretation—not a photograph of future events as you think!

Have you already forgot that Scripture also uses a mountain to represent a kingdom: Daniel 2:35, 44–45 connects the mountain filling the earth with God’s kingdom. Oh mine! Therefore, where does Revelation 17 identify these kings as "ten modern nations or their leader as Islamic?" That connection still needs biblical support which you have not done yet!

Again, what kingdom is it that the Beast want to rule through the ten kings which represents his full of power for an hour (ie. short season).

Something is up.
Have you been watching Brazil today?
Voting for Presidential Election run-off between Bolsonaro and Lula , the crowds are amazing.
Nick Shirley 4 hours ago dropping footage of what's happening there.
East meets West.

The Eastern Hemisphere going up in flames from Ukraine to Congo.
The Western Hemisphere is healing.
Removing cartels and drug dealers, human traffickers, dictators.

I mean,
I feel bad by what I am seeing over in France and Italy and Greece and Belgium, all of that, Gaza, Libya, Hungary. I mean the whole Eastern Hemisphere is in turmoil. Earthquakes in diverse places even, political earthquakes.
In the Western Hemisphere the only 2 resistors to change from the Globalist stronghold is Canada and Mexico.
All of South America is turning Conservative Red and it was all blue and controlled by entities such as USAID.
Lot's of money flowing there to keep the crime alive.

Cutting off the funding is like cutting off the head of the snake.

So Here's Nick Shirley


I'm still waiting to hear the results.

Hugs

The New World Order

just kidding
Hugs

Marilyn C said:

If you continue to be rude then our discussion is finished.

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If my bluntness offends you, I’m sorry—but the truth doesn’t become less true because it’s uncomfortable.

Marilyn C said:

God`s word tells us that the `far north` is used only of the north as a quarter.
And yes myteachers told me it was the Soviet Union, that great bear of the north as it was called devouring country after country. But then we know later on it seemed on the face of it to divide up with Russia and other countries but all seem to have the same philosophy.

The prophet Ezekiel was told of this for God uses the word `Rosh` which the Russian people call Russia. Thus when the far north federation is brought down by God to Israel. (Ez. 38: 8)

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Smile...

Then if you are correct, then most Bible commentators are engaging in personal opinions, idle speculation, and their own private interpretations. Because the Word of God tells us very clearly who Gog is, and who Magog is also.

Revelation 20:7-8

• "And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,
• and shall go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea."

So unless Russia has conquered the whole world and become all the nations from its four corners, then their interpretations has been measured against the Word of God and found wanting. God's word tells us that when Satan is unbound or loosed from his prison, he will go forth deceiving "the nations of the entire world," and God calls them collectively, "Gog and Magog." Why "Gog and Magog" is a subject for another day, but suffice it to say, all the "nations" of the world are gathered together against the camp of the saints, which would be the church. Saints are God's people, and their camp is the church.

Marilyn C said:

The kingdom of 10 kings in Rev. 17: 12 & 17 is the same as the one in Dan. 7: 7 & 23. And in Dan. 7 we see arising 4 great beastly kingdoms - British Empire, Soviet Union (later Russia), EU and Islam.

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(Chuckle) Ah yes, the classic 1970s premillennial approach—keep one eye on Scripture and the other on the evening news, then squeeze today’s nations into biblical prophecy. Sorry to disappoint you, but Christ is exposing a far more sinister spiritual kingdom—one foreshadowed by those Old Testament nations. Perhaps let Scripture interpret the headlines for a change, will ya?!

Marilyn C said:

Hal Linsey didn`t speak of Islam as far as I know.

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Really? I do not think you have studied his sources very well.

Yes—Hal Lindsey explicitly discussed Islam in his biblical prophecy teaching. His own ministry website, the Hal Lindsey Report, provides clear examples:

• His teaching series, Ezekiel’s View on the Middle East Crisis, includes topics titled “The Koran Contradicts Several Key Verses of the Bible” and “Muhammad Was a Genius in Spreading Islam,” alongside teachings on Ezekiel 38 and its predicted invasion.
• In “Gog, Magog, and Russia” (September 2023), he identified Russia as leading the Ezekiel 38–39 coalition, with Iran, Turkey, and certain African nations among its allies.
• In “Israel…at War” (October 2023), he discussed radical Islamic terrorism and described the Hamas attack as a precursor to his interpretation of the Russia–Iran war in Ezekiel 38–39.

So, yes, he connected Islam and modern Muslim nations with end-times prophecy.

Selah!

Marilyn C said:

Yes, Rev. 17 has many symbols but certainly not a spiritual city. The `woman` is the false religion of the world. It is NOT the RCC which is only one of the prostitutes. False religion was always shown as a harlot in the Old Testament.

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That interpretation of yours overlooks a crucial biblical pattern: in the Old Testament, God repeatedly calls His own unfaithful covenant people a harlot (Isaiah 1:21; Ezekiel 16). Harlotry does not automatically mean “all the world’s false religions.” It is about God's congregation! Period!

Yes, the woman represents a spiritual city—Revelation 17:18 explicitly identifies her as a city. She is representing the unfaithful congregation that has become unfaithful to Christ, rather than exclusively the RCC, Rome, earthly Jerusalem, or some imagined “world religion federation.” She is the apostate congregation, where Satan seeks to exercise his rule.

Selah!

Marilyn C said:

Mountain - high places, (idolatry) `they are also 7 kings.` (Rev. 17: 10)

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Mountain = Kingdom.

Marilyn C said:

The 10 kings are seen in Dan. 7: 24 `The 10 horns are 10 kings who shall arise from this kingdom.`

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Quoting Daniel 7:24 establishes that the horns represent kings, but it does not establish that those kings are "ten modern nations or political leaders". That is an assumption you are bringing to the text.

Do your homework in Scripture: horns symbolize power (Zech. 1:18–21), and ten here signifies the fullness of that power. These kings receive authority with the beast for “one hour” and surrender their power to him (Rev. 17:12–13). Satan exercising spiritual dominion through false prophets and false christs within the fallen congregation before Christ’s return (Matt. 24:24; 2 Thess. 2:3–4).

The issue is who rules within the unfaithful church! Consider ONE example: Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church in Houston. He "is" indeed a false prophet whose prosperity-centered, feel-good gospel replaces the call to repentance with comforting promises. That is how deception takes hold within a congregation—and why God’s elect must recognize it, testify against it, and come out (Rev. 18:4).

In this interpretation, such false teachers are themselves instruments of judgment, pictured by the tormenting locusts and deceptive frog-like spirits (Rev. 9:3–5; 16:13–14). Now consider that deception spreading through congregations worldwide: that is the spiritual assault as Gog and Magog surrounding the camp of the saints (Rev. 20:8–9), that many people of you fail to understand! Spirituial discerned!

Selah!

Yet YOU keep directing attention toward a future world religion or an alliance of nations attacking earthly Israel. Where does Daniel 7:24 establish those identifications? Repeating a geopolitical interpretation does NOT prove it from Scripture.

The way I see it, YOU are looking in the wrong place and assuming the wrong identity of Israel. You need to search and examine the spiritual rebellion within God's congregation that has "become" unnfaithful where false prophets and christs (hateful birds) rule! .

Selah!

Marilyn C said:

One scripture does not give all the details as you seem to desire.

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Try me!

Marilyn C said:

That is why we look at more scriptures from the prophets.

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With what? Carnal eyes and mind?

Marilyn C said:

In Dan. 7 we read of these 10 kings just before the Lord sets up His kingdom through Israel over the nations. (Dan. 7: 27)

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Here you go again. Wrong Israel on this side of the Cross.

Marilyn C said:

Looking at the other prophets Isa. 31: 4,5 & 8, (the Assyrian) and Dan. 2: 41 - 44 (the iron and clay) Dan. 7: 7 & 23 (last great beastly kingdom) we get quite a good picture of the last Gentile world power to arise.

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You still fail to answer my questions. For example, what is God's definition for iron and clay in Scripture?

Marilyn C said:

You would know that Islam has nearly 2 billion people.

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So?

Marilyn C said:

And it is quite obvious what their focus is - annihilation of Israel and subduing the rest of the world. How many countries do you see where they are beheading people, torturing them, killing, abducting etc. The only thing stopping them from rising as a formidable great power across the world is their inherent philosophical difference - Shia & Sunni. And that involves who is their rightful leader.

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Ah yes, more newspaper eschatology—because apparently those 1970s prophecy teachings need fresh headlines to stay alive. Sad!

Douggg said:

The verse could be the way you are reading it. Or the verse could be read differently that the Gog and Magog nations (that took part in the Gog/Magog attack on Israel a thousand years earlier) will be included.

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How convenient—one Gog and Magog becomes two whenever your timeline requires it! You place one attack before the thousand years and another afterward, identifying the first with Russia and the second with worldwide armies. Where does Scripture explicitly establish those two separate attacks? That distinction comes from your premillennial framework, not merely from the names “Gog and Magog.” Repeating the timeline does not prove it. Keep dreaming with your poster projects.

Douggg said:

In Ezekiel 39:2, Gog's army comes from places north of Israel. Which would seem to fit Russia.

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Your mistake begins with assuming which Israel is in view. “North of Israel” does not automatically mean Russia. Where does Ezekiel name Russia?

Israel here as God’s covenant people fulfilled in Christ—not merely a modern nation (Gal. 3:29; Eph. 2:12–19). Likewise, Judea in Matthew 24 as pointing spiritually to the covenant congregation the church. The threat is false christs and false prophets bringing deception among God’s people (Matt. 24:24), culminating in Gog and Magog surrounding “the camp of the saints” (Rev. 20:8–9).

You have supplied a compass direction, not biblical proof of Russia. Establish your identification from Scripture before presenting it as God’s meaning. Selah!

Douggg said:

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

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Ahem... here is spiritual lesson for you guys:

All nations of the earth will never ban together to wage a "physical war" against the Church unless you understand this as God breathed it. The word translated nations is the Greek word ethnos, meaning anyone who is non-Jewish, a foreigner. It is the same word translated Gentiles.

1Pe 4:3
"For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:"
Revelation 11:2
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Those words translated "Gentiles" that are wicked people and that tread down the Holy City is the same word you find in Revelation 20. People who insist on taking this word in Revelation to be the same as all the countries of the world attacking the Church, or worse Israel, are in error!! God is talking about spiritual Gentiles (unsaved professed Christians) v.s. spiritual Jews (True Elect). God separates us into two groups in His congregation all over the world, SPIRITUALLY!!! Spiritual Jews, who are the saved, and Gentiles, who are the unsaved. Moreover, read carefully what it says.

Revelation 20:8:
[SATAN] shall go out to deceive the Gentiles which are in the four quarters of the earth.

We have to remember this is Revelation, and that the unsaved people of the nations are already deceived before Satan was loosed. This deceiving that Satan does is upon those for whom he was bound from deceiving, and it wasn't the nations of the world! It was the Gentiles that he could not deceived for the 1000 years in order for God to build his Church. Once the Church is built and all Elect are secured, those who have not yet sealed by God in the Church are going to be deceived! As it is written:

Revelation 7:3
"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
The beast and the Gentiles will not attack God's congregation until God first finish His Elect through the testimony of Two Witnesses. AND THEN, they will start attack those within the congregaton who have not YET SEALED to be deceived. They are called Gog and Magog gather together to battle the faithful Church, as they are the unfaithful Gentile Church, those whom it is given to trample down the Holy city. Hello?!

Therefore, it is not about physical nations, but those deceived within the professing New Testament church!

These things require spiritual discernment (1 Cor. 2:14). Yet you keep reading earthly politics into a spiritual conflict—and consequently misidentify Israel, the Gentiles, and the nations. You cannot establish their spiritual meaning by pointing to a modern map. LOL!

Examine your assumptions instead of imposing them on the text. Selah!

Douggg said:

The ten horns do not have crowns until Revelation 13:1

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The content of Revelation 13 is during the last 42 months before Jesus returns. Revelation 13:5.

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Do you know what crowns upon the horns signify? When did these kings receive their crowns exactly? Chapter and verses please!

Douggg said:

What do you mean by "Selah!" ?

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Selah!

Selah simply is a signature exhortation from God for our thoughtful reflection and weighing of what we have just read.

TribulationSigns said:

Revelation 20:7-8

• "And when the thousand years have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,
• and shall go out to deceive the nations which [are] in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea."

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The first thing that came to mind was:

Act 10:10
And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11
And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12
Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

and then:

Mat 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Visions and trances. Are they the same thing?

anywho, just thinking
Hugs

TribulationSigns said:

Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea."

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Whose number?
Whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Gen 32:9
And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, the LORD which saidst unto me, Return unto thy country, and to thy kindred, and I will deal well with thee:
Gen 32:10
I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant; for with my staff I passed over this Jordan; and now I am become two bands.
Gen 32:11
Deliver me, I pray thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he will come and smite me, and the mother with the children.
Gen 32:12
And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

Hmm...

Whose number?


Are the animals in the sheet Gentiles?

what are the two bands?

divided?

just making observations.
Hugs