Strong delusions

Truth · Feb 8, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ? They loved not the truth and because of not loving the truth which is the Son...God said He would send them strong delusions. "I also will choose their delusions," God says in (Isaiah 66:4-7)

The Jews were blinded to the truth. Only those broken recognized Jesus as the Son of God. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love is: who the Son was, and is. Matthew 16: 15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

There seems to be this delusion, all centered around the greatest act of love in the history of mankind...whom do you say went to the cross for sin?

Consider what they called Him:

Matthew 27:63
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

They called Him a deceiver. A liar. A drunkard. We know it is not true because we see Him as the risen Christ; God in the flesh. But how many say otherwise?

And those followed Him were called no different: 2 Corinthians 6:7-8 [7] By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

No love of the truth=delusions to believe a lie, the lie that Christ was and is not God. No other deception counts as much as this one.

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.

John 8:44-45
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The delusion is already here. People are already blind.

Romans 1:23-26
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Matthew 24:4-5
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 5:6
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

2 Chronicles 18:20-22
[20] Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? [21] And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him , and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. [22] Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

The delusion of: who is Christ?

This delusion has been here for at least, 1700 years. Our Heavenly Father has told the end from the beginning. Two statement's you made in your post's, 1- But they all might be dammed that believed not the Truth, But had Pleasure in Unrighteousness, 2- the reference of, The Children of Disobedience!
What is unrighteousness? Paul claims that the Law showed us what sin is, so unrighteousness would be the transgression of the Law??
Children of Disobedience-- Again to be disobedient to what?
Please read Matthew 5. Verse 1 States-- And seeing the Multitudes, [ He left them behind] He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated!!!! [HIS DISCIPLES] came to Him. the 2nd verse is Important 2-Then He opened His Mouth and Taught [THEM] His Disciples, saying. This is where He began to teach them. When you get to ver-17 consider what He is Teaching, as I have said before, the delusion is what got Israel exiled from the Land!

charity · Feb 8, 2018

ScottA said:
1 John 4:1-3
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

Perhaps it would help if it were in the form of a question:

What good is a test of whether or not a spirit is of God or not, if the demons have already confessed that Jesus has [first] come in the flesh?"

Luke 4:41
"And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

No...that is not the test. But rather the test is a test to see if a person confesses that "it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." Meaning, Christ has first come in His own flesh, but also come a second time in the flesh of the one who confesses that Christ is in him. Which is to say, "quickly", "today", and not some future time of Christ coming again in His own flesh which He has left behind. For He did not commit His flesh to the Father, but only His spirit.

'Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:
because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:
.. Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
.. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:
and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.'
(1 John 4:1-3)

Hello @ScottA,

I am seeking to understand your meaning too.

* Looking at the word translated 'spirit' in the verses above, from 1 John 4, it refers to spirit-beings. Spirits are of various kinds - they may be teaching 'demons' or 'deceiving angels' (1 Timothy 4:1). All are called 'spirits'. Some are more wicked than others (Matthew 12:45). There are spirits 'different' from others (2 Corinthians 11:4). The Lord speaks of 'this kind' (Matthew 17:21). It is sometimes difficult to distinguish them from good spirits from whom they differ. They deceive by transforming themselves and, like human ministers, appear to be 'ministers of righteousness', and 'angels of light' (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). One of them appeared in this manner, advertising the message and the meetings of Paul and Silas (Acts 16:16-18). Our responsibility is not to believe them, but to, 'try them'.

* How can this be done? How are we to try them? - Only by the Word of God. We have no other test by which we may prove them.
* By this we can try their teachings.
* By this we can try their doctrines (Galatians 1:6-10)
* By this we can test their practices (1 Corinthians 14)
* If many speak at the same time, we can at once test this by the Word of God, which says the speaking is to be 'by course' (i.e. in succession) 'one by one' (1 Corinthians 14:31); and the reason is given, 'For God is not the author of confusion' (1 Corinthians 14:33). 'The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets' (1 Corinthians 14:32). If therefore we see that the speakers are under the 'control' of the spirits, and cannot speak or cannot be silent for some alleged reason, then it is clear that the spirits are not 'subject' to the speakers, but that the speakers are subject to the spirits.

* When are we to try the spirits if not now?
* How are we to try them but by the Word of God?
* No other test can take the place of this. We can be so easily misled by apparent results, or by our own tastes and feelings that, if we use not this one and only judge we may be mistaken and deceived.

* The spirit-beings you refer to ScottA, in Luke 4:41, were demons, or devils, they were not masquerading as something other than what they were, they did not need to be tried, and they recognised the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. They were not seeking to deny that He had come in the flesh, for He was before them, as flesh and blood, He could not be denied.

* The spirits being referred to in 1 John 4:1-3, were denying that the Christ, then risen to God's right hand, had come in the flesh at all,in order to deceive. He rose as the man Christ Jesus, as flesh and bones, and was not a spirit (Luke 24:39).

* We are indwelt by His nature, 'pnuema-Christou' (Romans 8:9). It is His spirit that indwells us, for He has risen to God's right hand. 'The spirit of Christ', as man, was psychological; and was, as such, commended to the Father at His death (Luke 23:46). There is no other spirit of Christ. But this pnuema-Christou is the new nature which makes us 'sons of God' as He is 'the Son of God'.

So, I cannot accept your explanation, @ScottA, I'm sorry.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

ScottA · Feb 8, 2018

charity said:
* How can this be done? How are we to try them? - Only by the Word of God. We have no other test by which we may prove them.

Okay, one thing at a time then...

No, not only by the word of God - that is my point (and John's), for even the demons know the word and will use it against you as they did from the beginning with Eve.

So, then, John gives us another test, which is of the spirit. Which is what Christ left to us and sent to lead us into all truth - which the scriptures only elude to in parable ("All things come in parables"). That test, is not to refer back to the word. But specifically refers to what spirit is speaking: that which is according to Christ coming into the one who is speaking, or the spirit of one who is without Christ speaking in them. Which, John clearly says is "anti-Christ."

Therefore, if "it is no longer we who live but Christ who lives in us", the test is also proof that Christ has come [again] in the flesh, which did begin to occur "quickly", beginning at Pentecost. And "they who do not confess that it is no longer them who live, but Christ who lives in them"...are "anti-Christ", which had also began when John reported it so.

ScottA · Feb 8, 2018

charity said:
* How are we to try them but by the Word of God?
* No other test can take the place of this. We can be so easily misled by apparent results, or by our own tastes and feelings that, if we use not this one and only judge we may be mistaken and deceived.

* The spirit-beings you refer to ScottA, in Luke 4:41, were demons, or devils, they were not masquerading as something other than what they were, they did not need to be tried, and they recognised the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. They were not seeking to deny that He had come in the flesh, for He was before them, as flesh and blood, He could not be denied.

* The spirits being referred to in 1 John 4:1-3, were denying that the Christ, then risen to God's right hand, had come in the flesh at all,in order to deceive. He rose as the man Christ Jesus, as flesh and bones, and was not a spirit (Luke 24:39).

* We are indwelt by His nature, 'pnuema-Christou' (Romans 8:9). It is His spirit that indwells us, for He has risen to God's right hand. 'The spirit of Christ', as man, was psychological; and was, as such, commended to the Father at His death (Luke 23:46). There is no other spirit of Christ. But this pnuema-Christou is the new nature which makes us 'sons of God' as He is 'the Son of God'.

So, I cannot accept your explanation, ScottA, I'm sorry.

What you have not accepted, is not me or mine, but Christ's second coming...that He first delivered the word in the flesh, and now does so by the Holy spirit of God. These are [two] different dispensations: by the dead and by the living. Both are Christ coming in the flesh, first as the Head, and then in His body. This is the confession that John was referring to - which if you do not accept...you reveal yourself (according to him) as an anti-Christ.

bbyrd009 · Feb 9, 2018

ScottA said:
"they who do not confess that it is no longer them who live, but Christ who lives in them"...are "anti-Christ"

this implies that any who do confess that are automatically not antichrist though, Scott, and this is just not true

101G · Feb 9, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Pondering on this proverb for days I have come to wonder if we have it backwards. God's righteous judgement was satisfied NOT by the wrath poured out on the Son, or the physical pain the Son endured, or the stripes, or the crown of thorns, or the nails...but rather God's wrath was satisfied by the act of love itself.

first thanks for your post. second no, it not backward. God is a righteous Judge, listen, Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand". I suggest you read all of the 53rd chapter.

see, God act of Love and his wrath is those who Love, or don't Love HIM.

PCY.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

101G said:
first thanks for your post. second no, it not backward. God is a righteous Judge, listen, Isaiah 53:10 "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand". I suggest you read all of the 53rd chapter.

see, God act of Love and his wrath is those who Love, or don't Love HIM.

PCY.

Armageddon: the big bloody battle scene where God slashes His enemies apart in unrelenting fury. How many men will it take to add up to the price of Christ, to satisfy this rage of God? It took ONE to satisfy God's wrath but that ONE was God in the flesh. So, we are saying all this blood and gore appeases our God when flesh profits nothing in His eye? If it is not all the slain that satisfies God's wrath then, is it casting those that don't believe into Hell?

2 Peter 3:9
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Or is it the turning to Him, the cry, the broken and contrite heart that seeks Him? It pleased the Lord to bruise Him. Yes. Was it the act of bruising or what was displayed by the Son? The steadfast love that held Him to the cross?

By your own admission you said "see, God act of Love and his wrath is those who Love, or don't Love HIM."

Which means "love" is what satisfies God's wrath...not the action of torture or destruction..."but those that love Him." You said it yourself. Those that love Him and those that don't...love is the difference. What is God's motive always? his heart? LOVE which the Lamb of God demonstrated to the fullest. We read and study Christ's teachings...who is God.

ScottA · Feb 9, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
this implies that any who do confess that are automatically not antichrist though, Scott, and this is just not true

Those are not my words, but John's.

But you have gone out of context. He is not referring to everyone, but only to those who confess Christ according to His promise of coming into them, as opposed to those who confess Christ without having Him inside, which are those who look for Him to come when He has not said. This, they do because when He knocked, they did not answer, for they did not know His voice and have looked away.

bbyrd009 · Feb 9, 2018

ScottA said:
Those are not my words, but John's.

that is not a reply though, but a justification, right. so, not buyin it wadr

ScottA said:
He is not referring to everyone, but only to those who confess Christ according to His promise of coming into them, as opposed to those who confess Christ without having Him inside, which are those who look for Him to come when He has not said. This, they do because when He knocked, they did not answer, for they did not know His voice and have looked away.

this makes no sense either, sorry, at least not to me.
i read "any man" there, so this seems to refute your pov

ScottA · Feb 9, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
that is not a reply though, but a justification, right. so, not buyin it wadr
this makes no sense either, sorry, at least not to me.
i read "any man" there, so this seems to refute your pov

1 John 4
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.

It is not "any man", but "every spirit" that is the context. Meaning, that those whom have the spirit of Christ living in them, as opposed to those who confess Christ but do not have Him living in them and whose spirit is of the world and not of Christ.

In other words, the subject here is "Christ in you"...which is proof of His coming again a [second] time, and also who is against Him (antichrist). And the test that John has given is to determine who is for Him and who is against Him, among those who confess Him...because many who confess Him, do not have Him, and therefore cannot say that He has come in [their] flesh.

101G · Feb 9, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Armageddon: the big bloody battle scene where God slashes His enemies apart in unrelenting fury. How many men will it take to add up to the price of Christ, to satisfy this rage of God? It took ONE to satisfy God's wrath but that ONE was God in the flesh. So, we are saying all this blood and gore appeases our God when flesh profits nothing in His eye? If it is not all the slain that satisfies God's wrath then, is it casting those that don't believe into Hell?

First thanks for the reply, second I'm not here to argue either. now a deception is not known, but god's people now know.
U posted, "all this blood and gore appeases our God". NO, and again I say NO, he hurts him to see any perish. he desire all to be save. this is no delusion. scripture, 1 Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth". but you see VJ, men LOVE darkness more than LIGHT. understand, all that blood and gore you are referring to, what about all that sinning and iniquity we have did, and some still doing. have you consider that it hurt God?. he have feeling too.

as for hell, as one thread put it, "the Good news about hell" is this. it will be cast into the lake of fire, (Revelation 20:14). Hell you don't need to worry about it's the "SECOND DEATH", no Greyhound return ticket there.

VictoryinJesus said:
2 Peter 3:9
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

this is exactly what I have said about in 1 Timothy 2:3. see most people want the Lord to hurry up. they want the day of the Lord NOW. well not me. scripture, Amos 5:18 "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light". well.... what benefit do you expect to get by it?. what Good is it going to do any, especially if they are not ready. let's be about our father business helping one another, to the unsaved, speak the truth. many christian might want to read Amos 5:18.

VictoryinJesus said:
Or is it the turning to Him, the cry, the broken and contrite heart that seeks Him? It pleased the Lord to bruise Him. Yes. Was it the act of bruising or what was displayed by the Son? The steadfast love that held Him to the cross?

yes, all whom he called. for have not all heard?. listen, Romans 10:11-16 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?".

this is the Love of God. for he have sent us into all the world, so there is no excuse. Romans 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people". dose it hurt God for his own creation to be disobedient to him. how can the clay say to the potter?, Romans 9:20 "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"

VictoryinJesus said:
By your own admission you said "see, God act of Love and his wrath is those who Love, or don't Love HIM."

see above.

VictoryinJesus said:
Which means "love" is what satisfies God's wrath...not the action of torture or destruction..."but those that love Him." You said it yourself. Those that love Him and those that don't...love is the difference. What is God's motive always? his heart? LOVE which the Lamb of God demonstrated to the fullest. We read and study Christ's teachings...who is God.

I will leave you with this, OBEDIENCE, see above, is better than sacrifice.

PS, "if you LOVE me keep my commandments"
PCY

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

101G said:
if you LOVE me keep my commandments"

What are His commandments?

101G · Feb 9, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
What are His commandments?

Matthew 22:35 "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets".

and this have never change, nor God changed it, listen, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". this have NEVER changed. the Lord Jesus said it then and now.

LOVE the Lord your God and ANOTHER with the SAME LOVE. simple.

PCY.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

101G said:
Matthew 22:35 "Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets".

and this have never change, nor God changed it, listen, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". this have NEVER changed. the Lord Jesus said it then and now.

LOVE the Lord your God and ANOTHER with the SAME LOVE. simple.

PCY.

Simple? Love costs everything. It is not simple.

101G · Feb 9, 2018

NO, everything have a price, but God is EVERYTHING, and he cannot be bought.

PCY.

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

101G said:
hang all the law and the prophets".

Hang all the Law...and the prophets. "Hang" consider it is not so "simple".

101G · Feb 9, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Hang all the Law...and the prophets. "Hang" consider it is not so "simple".

Yes it is, did you not read Micah? "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". can't get any simpler than that.

PCY

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

101G said:
Yes it is, did you not read Micah? "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?". can't get any simpler than that.

PCY

You misunderstood: not as in simple in instruction but in follow through. Go find a couple of your worst enemies that have cost you, then follow through. It is easy for us to talk about what "we know" but love is action.

Luke 6:46
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

VictoryinJesus · Feb 9, 2018

ScottA said:
1 John 4:1-3
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

Perhaps it would help if it were in the form of a question:

What good is a test of whether or not a spirit is of God or not, if the demons have already confessed that Jesus has [first] come in the flesh?"

Luke 4:41
"And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

No...that is not the test. But rather the test is a test to see if a person confesses that "it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." Meaning, Christ has first come in His own flesh, but also come a second time in the flesh of the one who confesses that Christ is in him. Which is to say, "quickly", "today", and not some future time of Christ coming again in His own flesh which He has left behind. For He did not commit His flesh to the Father, but only His spirit.

The "quick" and the "dead"?

John 6:63 KJV
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 4:17-18
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [18] Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Psalm 119:93
[93] I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Psalm 119:50
[50] This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

1 Corinthians 15:36
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

2 Timothy 4:1
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

I don't understand...are you saying the "dead" are OT saints, like David. And we are the "quick"?

ScottA · Feb 9, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
The "quick" and the "dead"?

John 6:63 KJV
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 4:17-18
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [18] Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Psalm 119:93
[93] I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Psalm 119:50
[50] This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

1 Corinthians 15:36
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

2 Timothy 4:1
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

I don't understand...are you saying the "dead" are OT saints, like David. And we are the "quick"?

Yes, "the quick and the dead", but no, not the OT saints as opposed to "we who are alive and remain". That would be two different topics.

As pertains to these times, that being "the times of the gentiles", the times of the "other fold" that Christ "must bring." This fold begins as all mankind, as dead to God, but alive to the world. It is then given to this "other fold" that if by hearing the good news of the coming of Christ, we do believe, then we shall be "grafted in" to the "chosen" and saved. The difference between this salvation and that of the OT saints, is that the OT saints died before Christ provided that which "quickly" became available thereafter...which was the quickening of the Holy Spirit which Christ sent (after He arose taking with Him "the dead in Christ" who are the OT saints, of whom He was "the Last").

So, then, Christ is the apex or dividing line between the two folds which Christ brings with Him to the Father...which makes Him "the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." On this side of that divide there is only one fold, in which are the dead of the gentiles who do not believe, and those gentiles who do believe. Those who believe are then "grafted in" to "chosen" to receive the Holy Spirit, and become "the living in Christ." It is the witness of the Holy Spirit/Christ living in them that is the test of who is of God according to John, as opposed to those who do not have Christ in them, i.e., "Whoever is not with me, is against me" (antichrist).

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