The Unforgiveable Sin - who is God warning?

Good study Whirlwind this is exactly why Luke 12:10 does not contradict itself

Hello whirlwind,I too believe,that this is the unforgivable sin,but after reading the following study,Im not sure if Im 100% in agreement,think Im gonna study it again.Read this study and give me an opinion So then, what is this Unforgivable Sin that the Scriptures allude to in some half-dozen places? And what Bible student is there that hasn't happened across the mention of an unforgivable sin in Scripture and not wondered what that sin was? In this study we shall examine it from all angles, searching the Scriptures for our answers. We see from the Scriptures themselves several things about this unforgivable sin. We see that before Jesus had ascended it was impossible to commit this sin:Matt 12:30-3230 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man [Jesus Christ BEFORE HE ascended], it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost [which was sent by Jesus Christ AFTER He ascended], it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (KJV) We see that this sin is regarding the 'third part' of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit of God. It is not stated to be one who blasphemes God nor His Christ, but only His Holy Spirit (but they are One as we shall see). And that the 'assault' on that Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin:Mark 3:22-3022 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He [Jesus] hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:30 Because they said, He [Jesus] hath an unclean spirit. (KJV) We see that it is impossible to find forgiveness for one who has committed this sin — there is no way back for them, no repentance available to them. We also see a little deeper into what the nature of this unforgivable sin is. We see that only believers can commit this sin. We also see it associated with the "falling away," which brings our minds to "...for that day [Second Advent] shall not come, except there come a falling away first...." (II Th 2:3):Heb 6:4-64 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance [no forgiveness]; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God [Jesus Christ AFTER He ascended] afresh, and put him to an open shame. (KJV) We see the unhappy state of one who commits this unforgivable sin:I Jn 5:16-1716 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. (KJV)Here is the link for the rest of this studyhttp://www.biblestudysite.com/unforgivablesin.htm

Here’s some information about the “unpardonable sin” you might find interesting:Matthew 12:22-45Using the Gospel of Matthew as a base, we see that Jesus began His ministry in chapter 4. From chapter 4 until chapter 12, Christ is seen going around Israel proclaiming the Kingdom and preaching the gospel of the Kingdom. He performs many miracles, and the purpose of each of these miracles between chapters 4 and 12 is to authenticate His person and His message. They are signs to force the nation of Israel to come to a decision regarding: (1) His person – that He is the Messiah; and, (2) His message – the gospel of the Kingdom. But, then, in Matthew 12, the whole purpose of His miracles and His ministry will undergo a radical change. The rejection of His Messiahship is about to occur. In Matthew 12:22-29, we read:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a demon, blind and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the dumb man spake and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed, and said, Can this be the son of David? 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons. 25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges. 28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.As we stated earlier, the purpose of the miracles of Jesus was to authenticate to the nation His person and His message. Within Judaism were also exorcists who exorcised demons (v. 27). But in Jewish exorcism, one had to communicate with a demon in order to find out its name and then use that name to cast out the demon. But in the case here, where the demon caused the person to become dumb, Jewish exorcism was of no avail. Communication with the demon was rendered impossible. But Jewish theology taught that when the Messiah came, He would be able to cast out even that kind of demon.Indeed, in verse 22 of the above passage, Christ was able to exorcise that kind of demon.In verse 23, this caused the people to begin asking the question, “Can Jesus really be the Messiah?” This was one of the key purposes of this miracle, that they might see that He was indeed the foretold Son of David. The people, however, were not willing to judge His person by themselves but were looking to their religious leaders, the Pharisees, to come up with some kind of public statement or judgment concerning Jesus. They were looking to the Pharisees to conclude either that He was the Messiah or that He was not. But if He was not the Messiah, the Pharisees needed to offer some kind of alternative explanation as to how He was able to perform these many miracles.In verse 24, we find that the Pharisees chose the latter course. They refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah, because He did not fit the Pharisaic “mold” or idea of what Messiah was supposed to say and do. Their alternative as to how He was performing His miracles was to say that He Himself was demon-possessed by Beelzebub. This, then, becomes the basis of the rejection of the Messiahship of Jesus. This is the “leaven of the Pharisees,” the false teaching about which Jesus would warn His disciples. They were to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, i.e., the claim that Jesus was not the Messiah but rather that He was demon-possessed. It was on these grounds that the Pharisees rejected the Messiahship of Christ.In verses 25-29, Messiah responded to this accusation by telling them that their statement could not be true, as it would mean that Satan’s kingdom was divided against itself.In verses 30-37, Jesus pronounced judgment on the generation of that day. Verses 30-32 read:30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth. 31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.This is a warning from Jesus that they are treading on very dangerous ground. He says that blaspheming against Him, the “Son of man”, can be forgiven, but if they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, they will have crossed the line. LOTS of people find this confusing, but I think we can find a very reasonable and Biblically sound explanation for this statement.We must be very clear as to what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. It is the unpardonable sin which was committed by “that generation” of Israel in Jesus’ day. It did NOT involve the denial of Jesus’ Messiahship while He was physically present on this earth on the grounds that He was demon-possessed. This was “speaking a word against the Son of man”, to use Jesus’ own words. Jesus differentiates between that and “blasphemy against the Spirit”. So where does “blasphemy against the Spirit” fit in?To find the answer, we must go to the book of Acts, specifically Chapters 2 & 7. In chapter 2, we see the famous story of the Holy Spirit coming on the apostles and the resultant speaking in tongues, etc. This was followed in chapters 3-6 by story after story of the Holy Spirit’s testimony to Israel concerning Jesus’ Messiahship. Time and time again miracles occurred as well as radically changed behavior, both in the general group of believers as well as in the apostles themselves, all of which served as testimony to Israel regarding the true Messiahship of Jesus. This was all testimony that came from the Holy Spirit, via the apostles. Then we get to the moment where the line was crossed at Acts 6:8-7:60, the false accusation, trial, and stoning to death of Stephen. Look at this excerpt from Stephen’s testimony before the Sanhedrin:Acts 7:51-53 - “”You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.” ”By their subsequent stoning Stephen to death, they have now completed the “blasphemy against the Spirit”. And three things now happen at this point that are critical to this discussion.Acts 8:1-2 - “Saul approved of their killing him (Stephen). On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.”1. Saul, later to be Paul of course, enters the picture.2. The Church is scattered, being forcibly moved on to Phase 2 of the Great Commission.3. The identity of the group of believers is here confirmed by the Scriptures as “The Church”.Up until this point, the possibility may have still been open that Israel could claim their earthly kingdom under Christ’s leadership. But now, they have committed the “unpardonable sin” and rejected the testimony of the Holy Spirit as presented in Acts 2-7, concluding with the testimony of Stephen. When they stoned Stephen, they signed their own death warrants as the viable corporate nation of Israel, not as individuals. (If they had signed their death warrants as individuals, then Saul could not have been saved and become Paul since he played a key role in the murder of Stephen.)At this point we should look at what Jesus had to say about this “blasphemy against the Spirit”. This sin would be considered unpardonable, requiring judgment. It is a sin that cannot be committed by individuals today. It was a national sin committed by the generation of Jesus’ day; and for that generation, that sin was unpardonable. This did not mean that individual members of that generation could not be saved, for many were saved. It did, however, mean that nothing they could do would avert the coming destruction of Jerusalem once that unpardonable sin was committed. It was a done deal, signed, sealed, and delivered, do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.Rejection of His Messiahship, then, was the unpardonable sin. Judgment was set, and there was no way of alleviating that judgment. It was a judgment that was to be fulfilled in the year A.D. 70. In Matthew 12:33-37, Messiah emphasized that there was no middle ground in the decision that had been declared regarding His Messiahship. Finally, Jesus tells that generation of Israel that they would be condemned by their own words, saying:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.We then see later on in Matthew 16 that Jesus is already planning on switching to a new entity: ”On this rock I will build my church...” Not “might” build or even “probably” build, but “will” build. It’s already a done deal. This is because God, in His knowledge of all things past, present, and future, knew that, even though He gave Israel another chance in Acts 2-6, they would reject it and He would wind up turning to the Gentiles.Consider this: In Matthew 23 we find Christ’s denunciation of the Scribes and Pharisees, the Jewish leadership of that day, for leading the nation in the rejection of His Messiahship:O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! (Notice the similarity with Stephen’s testimony in Acts 7:52.) How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house (the Temple) is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.Speaking to the Jewish leadership, Christ reiterates His original desire to gather them if they would only accept Him. But due to their rejection of His Messiahship, they will be scattered instead of gathered. Their house, the Jewish Temple, will be destroyed with nothing remaining. He then declares that they will not see Him again until they say, “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord”. This is a messianic greeting, and it will signify their acceptance of the Messiahship of Jesus, which will happen at the time of the 2nd Coming.Messiah will not return until the Jews and the Jewish leaders ask Him to come back. For just as the Jewish leaders led the nation to the rejection of His Messiahship, they must someday lead the nation to the acceptance of that very same fact.We see this in Hosea 6:1–3Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.

whirlwind;39697]We know that murderers and rapists can said:

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him[/b].

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OK' date=' I can see how you would arrive at the conclusion that murderers can’t be saved (although I arrive at a different conclusion), but where do you get the idea that a person who can’t be saved in this life could be saved in another? That sounds a lot like “karma” to me. Is there a Scripture to support this view?

whirlwind;39697' said:

In another scripture it is stated that the same penalty applies to both murder and rape.

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What Scripture?

whirlwind;39697]So said:

But...there is one sin that is unforgiveable even in the next age.Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man' date=' it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.[/i']

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There is nothing in that verse that mentions the next age.

whirlwind;39697]11.[b][i]And when they bring you unto the synagogues said:

[/b]:12. For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."That "same hour" is right before the end of this age when the elect are delivered for their testimony as taught to us in the Olivet Prophecies of [Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21].

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So we, the believers just before the Second Coming, are going to be getting hauled into “synagogues”? I have a hard time seeing how that will happen when the people who use synagogues, the Jews, will be on the run for their lives from the Antichrist. This warning of Luke 12:11 appears to be something that was directed specifically at the apostles who were in front of him at that moment.

whirlwind;39697]The [Luke 12] scripture explains the reason God blinded some to His full truth. Only the elect of God will be delivered before "[i]synagogues said:

" for a testimony. Only they, the elect, can commit the unpardonable sin.

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There is nothing that I see that connects the “unpardonable sin” with the elect. If that were the case, they wouldn’t be the “elect”, because they would be unforgiven. The two are mutually exclusive.

whirlwind;39697]The others have been blinded for their protection. [/QUOTE]This is the first time that I’ve ever heard of “being blinded” as something that is for one’s protection. Every instance throughout the Bible that I see of people being blinded said:

They aren't among those that will be delivered up so they can't commit that sin.

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OK, so even assuming that you’re right about this, that somebody who gets delivered up to a synagogue (even though all its congregants are on the run from the Antichrist) is at risk of committing the unpardonable sin, then why would James tell us to “Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials” when said person is at risk of losing their salvation?

whirlwind;39697]The Holy Spirit will speak through His elect said:

That is true, but the specific event that brings Christ back is Israel’s asking Him to come back and save them. We see this in Hosea 6:1–3Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. Let us acknowledge the LORD; let us press on to acknowledge him. As surely as the sun rises, he will appear; he will come to us like the winter rains, like the spring rains that water the earth.

whirlwind;39697]If one of the elect refused to be delivered for that purpose said:

Sorry, but I’m going to need to see more Scriptural support for this. You’re throwing in a few verses that go along with your position, but you’re not showing any Scriptures that actually support this final conclusion.

whirlwind;39697]Christ was our example of this end time event.John 12:48 [b][i]He that rejecteth Me said:

[/b]

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This is in reference to a lost person, not the “elect”.

whirlwind;39697]If we reject the Holy Spirit then at the last day His Word will judge us....the word that tolds us the penalty of that blasphemy will seal our fate. [/QUOTE]I disagree said:

49. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father Which sent Me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. This is our example. We may not speak our own thoughts but only allow the Holy Spirit to speak.....just as He did.50. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I spake therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak." Allowing the Holy Spirit to use us in this manner is our destiny as one of His elect....if we are one of His elect.

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It is true that Jesus is our example in not shrinking from the task that is given us in the face of persecution and trials, but that does not put us under the gun of the unpardonable sin. That would hardly put us in the position to “consider it all joy”

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All the studys above seem to have one thing in common they basically lead back to acts and Pencost Day for this reason and my own studies I believe whirlwind has it rightsorry N2 I dont have much faith in some of Nick's ideasJust as on Pencost Day God spoke through the aspostels the sign of this was all understood in their own Language We are of course are told this will happen one time again.So I do belive this is the only time it can be commited as whirlwind points outand then only by the Elect

Murder can be forgiven , and a murderer can go to Heaven. Without printing out half the Bible like some do , here is the short explaination.The murder started long before the killer actually goes through the mechanical motions of pulling the trigger.It started in the heart with hatred , anger and sin. We all have that same ingredient in our sinful nature and it is forgiven. Most of us do not go all the way with our "murderous thoughts" , we usually abandon them in a split second or so. The point is , we can be just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger. We just did not go ahead and pull it. We sure wanted to some times though ...... Right ???

(arniem;43694)
Murder can be forgiven , and a murderer can go to Heaven. Without printing out half the Bible like some do , here is the short explaination.The murder started long before the killer actually goes through the mechanical motions of pulling the trigger.It started in the heart with hatred , anger and sin. We all have that same ingredient in our sinful nature and it is forgiven. Most of us do not go all the way with our "murderous thoughts" , we usually abandon them in a split second or so. The point is , we can be just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger. We just did not go ahead and pull it. We sure wanted to some times though ...... Right ???
Finally! Another Christian that believes God at His word.The thought is just as much a sin as the actual doing.All of that printing makes em feel it makes them special, and how many ppl do they actually set and read all of that. It's more like a contest to see who can fill up a page first.

King David murdered!, before he was a king he was a bad dude sometimes. Killing families etc.

(forgivenWretch;43710)
Finally! Another Christian that believes God at His word.The thought is just as much a sin as the actual doing.All of that printing makes em feel it makes them special, and how many ppl do they actually set and read all of that. It's more like a contest to see who can fill up a page first.
I hear you , loud and clear , and we are able to agree , and we did not have to print out the whole bible to prove it. It is just that easy . I have observed for years that people who are trying to promote a doctrine will quote a bunch of verses or print half the bible for you , but never once be able to answer anything in their own words. They are usually unable to do so. Love from CanadaArnie M

(arniem;43721)
I hear you , loud and clear , and we are able to agree , and we did not have to print out the whole bible to prove it. It is just that easy . I have observed for years that people who are trying to promote a doctrine will quote a bunch of verses or print half the bible for you , but never once be able to answer anything in their own words. They are usually unable to do so. Love from CanadaArnie M

Billy Graham and his wife once said it best.While being interviewed , Ruth Graham was asked about the hardships she endured over the many years her husband was on the road , problems in the marriage etc. The interviewer asked if she had ever contemplated divorce. No she said , never divorce , but murder YES !!! It was a tongue in cheek answer , yet showed an honesty we could all understand.Billy Graham , once speaking in front of a large group who were discussing ethics and "excessive riches" amongst some evangelists made the comment that he had never bought an expensive Armani suit and he usually bought the durable ones from Sears. The crowd applauded him but he held up his hand and said "but I WANTED an Armani suit".Simple , honest words work. It worked for Jesus and the prostitute in the gutter. She will be in heaven with us. The learned religious leaders of the day ... Jesus got nowhere with them.

The topic of this thread is the unforgiveable sin.Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgiveable sin. The subject came up when Jesus healed a blind and mute man. His opposers claimed it was done by Beelzebub, the prince of demons.Do not attribute the workings of the Holy Spirit to the enemy . Matthew 12 has the details.

(arniem;43726)
The topic of this thread is the unforgiveable sin.Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgiveable sin. The subject came up when Jesus healed a blind and mute man. His opposers claimed it was done by Beelzebub, the prince of demons.Do not attribute the workings of the Holy Spirit to the enemy . Matthew 12 has the details.
This is what I have understood also about the unforgiveable sin. But Paul did say that he was a blasphemer, but abtained mercy because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. (Maybe this was not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit)

(forgivenWretch;43710)
Finally! Another Christian that believes God at His word.The thought is just as much a sin as the actual doing.All of that printing makes em feel it makes them special, and how many ppl do they actually set and read all of that. It's more like a contest to see who can fill up a page first.
Thats all fine forgiven but it hasnt a thing to do with the unforgivable sin It is a one time sin that can only be committed by the Elect as mark 13 says the fact these people took the time to right a study to show you the evidence should be applauded, not belittled but hey you keep hanging on to your fast food quick answers religion thats whats wrong with the world today nobody wants to study God just give a quick easy answer. And by the way you obviously still dont know the answer

(kriss;43730)
Thats all fine forgiven but it hasnt a thing to do with the unforgivable sin It is a one time sin that can only be committed by the Elect as mark 13 says the fact these people took the time to right a study to show you the evidence should be applauded, not belittled but hey you keep hanging on to your fast food quick answers religion thats whats wrong with the world today nobody wants to study God just give a quick easy answer. And by the way you obviously still dont know the answer
What? I'm sorry but I do not follow what you are trying to say.Believe me I know the answer! And I also know that most of what is seen on these full page posts is merely a smoke screen and just as Arniem said, it is too easy to quote someone or something, but half of the answers are not the individual and more that likely, they don't even know what they are posting.The ONLY unforgiveable sin is blasphemy! Period.

Yes exactly but unless there is a contradiction in Gods word this is a particular type of blasphemy sense Chrrist died for all sins that would make a condradiction but then only a deeper study might show this yes its blasphemy but do you know when and how and where it can be commited ?

If you bother to read the verse's you will see that they even appear to contradict themselvesMar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: How can you be forgiven from all and be condemed to eternal damnation??

(kriss;43736)
If you bother to read the verse's you will see that they even appear to contradict themselvesMar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: How can you be forgiven from all and be condemed to eternal damnation??
I believe that you can be in danger of eternal damnation when you deny the power of Holy Spirit. Without this power there is no salvation.

The Bible DOES NOT contradict itself! Why is that so hard to understand? Everything you are saying is taken out of context.