What part of all forms of blasphemy will be forgiven men do you not get ???the blashempy of the Holy ghost can not be commited unless one knows they are comitting it the pentality is most serious God ever gives this is a big deal a major thing we are told a miracle like penecost will happen again in the End Days its the only time one will receive the full knowlede of God to be able to get this penalty this is not everday occurance it is worthy of eternal damnation same as Satan do you not get that Im not tying in Penecost day I was just using it as comparison to explain what Mark 13 is talking about
The Unforgiveable Sin - who is God warning?
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(kriss;43897)
Super kal I will tell you reguardless of all these opinions scripture is very clear it can not be comited today we are plainley told all blasphemies of men will be forgiven, period the end, as long as Grace is in effect there is no unforgivable sin possable. Christ died for all sin even blaspheme. as he saysThe unforgivable sin can only be commited by one who has been given the full knowledge of God through the Holy spirit as happened on Penecost day Acts 2 when the elect are put on trial by Antichrist in Mark 13 they are told not to premeditate what they will say because the Holy spirit(God) will come and speak through them if one denys this it is a blashpemy that will bring eternal damnation. Why because they will know the truth of God as he will show them God would never damn anyone to eternal damnation without giving them first his full knowledge. this is the truth reguardless of what others guess at this is what scripture says Denver is soon going to have a study on this so watch for it.
that will be extremely helpful... and thank you for helping me understand it
Super kal I will tell you reguardless of all these opinions scripture is very clear it can not be comited today we are plainley told all blasphemies of men will be forgiven, period the end, as long as Grace is in effect there is no unforgivable sin possable. Christ died for all sin even blaspheme. as he saysThe unforgivable sin can only be commited by one who has been given the full knowledge of God through the Holy spirit as happened on Penecost day Acts 2 when the elect are put on trial by Antichrist in Mark 13 they are told not to premeditate what they will say because the Holy spirit(God) will come and speak through them if one denys this it is a blashpemy that will bring eternal damnation. Why because they will know the truth of God as he will show them God would never damn anyone to eternal damnation without giving them first his full knowledge. this is the truth reguardless of what others guess at this is what scripture says Denver is soon going to have a study on this so watch for it.
that will be extremely helpful... and thank you for helping me understand it
(kriss;43942)
What part of all forms of blasphemy will be forgiven men do you not get ???the blashempy of the Holy ghost can not be commited unless one knows they are comitting it the pentality is most serious God ever gives this is a big deal a major thing we are told a miracle like penecost will happen again in the End Days its the only time one will receive the full knowlede of God to be able to get this penalty this is not everday occurance it is worthy of eternal damnation same as Satan do you not get that Im not tying in Penecost day I was just using it as comparison to explain what Mark 13 is talking about
This seems to be a famous line for you "what do you not get".I understand and do not appreciate you implying my ignorance. I said that you would know that you were blasphemy. Who would not know if they were slandering someone. Where does it say that we will see another miracle like pentecost (where is the scripture)?Also if you look up Matt. 10:20 Where it says Spirit speak in you.It is the same greek word used in Mark 12:36-For David himself said by the Holy Ghost..Is the Spirit speaking through David here or is the Spirit telling David what to say. I believe that in both scriptures it could be that the Spirit was giving them the words to speak. When it say not ye that speaks-could be that it it is not there words but the Holy Spirit giving them the words to say. Just like he does preachers, teachers etc.
What part of all forms of blasphemy will be forgiven men do you not get ???the blashempy of the Holy ghost can not be commited unless one knows they are comitting it the pentality is most serious God ever gives this is a big deal a major thing we are told a miracle like penecost will happen again in the End Days its the only time one will receive the full knowlede of God to be able to get this penalty this is not everday occurance it is worthy of eternal damnation same as Satan do you not get that Im not tying in Penecost day I was just using it as comparison to explain what Mark 13 is talking about
This seems to be a famous line for you "what do you not get".I understand and do not appreciate you implying my ignorance. I said that you would know that you were blasphemy. Who would not know if they were slandering someone. Where does it say that we will see another miracle like pentecost (where is the scripture)?Also if you look up Matt. 10:20 Where it says Spirit speak in you.It is the same greek word used in Mark 12:36-For David himself said by the Holy Ghost..Is the Spirit speaking through David here or is the Spirit telling David what to say. I believe that in both scriptures it could be that the Spirit was giving them the words to speak. When it say not ye that speaks-could be that it it is not there words but the Holy Spirit giving them the words to say. Just like he does preachers, teachers etc.
Kriss, in your post #26 you mentioned that the unpardonable sin could not be commited until he had the full knowledge of God through the Holy Spirit...In Romans 2:17-28 says that we are without excuse..vs. 19 says that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. What is it that God has not showed us?
Well I was using it as a question because you do not seem to get it I didnt imply ignorance I just dont understand what part of that statement you not getting All Men will be forgiven all forms of blasphemy how much clearer can God make it how can I write so you get the wordsan unbeliever can not blasphmey what they dont have (the Holy spirit) a christian would never intentionally do it So you are saying you believe a Christian believer can accently commit a sin of blasphemy so serious they get the same penalty as Satan if that is you belief fine. call it what ever you like then every christain is at risk of getting the same penalty as Satan if that makes sense to you call it want ..........................................but if one wants to know what scipture says this is a future event that will happen and God only speaks of one future event when God speaks through the Elect and thats Mark 13 and it is the only time the unforgivable sin can be comitted because its the only other time Gods spirit speaks through us as he did the first time to the aspostles. I doubt this will ever happen but God fore warns us of all things
(setfree;43945)
Kriss, in your post #26 you mentioned that the unpardonable sin could not be commited until he had the full knowledge of God through the Holy Spirit...In Romans 2:17-28 says that we are without excuse..vs. 19 says that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. What is it that God has not showed us?
Do you think anyone knows all the Word ???as the aspostles do you think we know all the mysteries of God ?? God has fore told us all things in his word that we need to know, most people can barely get through the surface text ??So just because he told us dosent mean we all know it before you are given the penality of eternal damnation dont you think it would be fair if God told you what the aspostles knew so you could make an informed choice to deny him and comit this blashemy???unless you think God is just unfair and would condem someone that just doesnt get it
Kriss, in your post #26 you mentioned that the unpardonable sin could not be commited until he had the full knowledge of God through the Holy Spirit...In Romans 2:17-28 says that we are without excuse..vs. 19 says that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. What is it that God has not showed us?
Do you think anyone knows all the Word ???as the aspostles do you think we know all the mysteries of God ?? God has fore told us all things in his word that we need to know, most people can barely get through the surface text ??So just because he told us dosent mean we all know it before you are given the penality of eternal damnation dont you think it would be fair if God told you what the aspostles knew so you could make an informed choice to deny him and comit this blashemy???unless you think God is just unfair and would condem someone that just doesnt get it
forgivenWretch
New Member
We were created with a brain, in order that we may make choices. The #1 choice that must be made is to accept or deny God's gift, Christ Jesus and His dying for our salvation.When we choose not to accept, we are damned to burn in Hell. "For the wages of sin is Death". By refusing to accept we blaspheme against Him, and for that we will burn. It is as plain as the nose on our face!Please do not bother telling us that this is only my opinion, since that would only be your opinion. It is Biblical and you nor anyone else cannot prove it other.
Blasphemy can be forgivenBlasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.Matthew 12 seem to indicate that attributing Jesus' miraculous healing power as coming from Satan and his workers is the blasphemy of The Holy spirit.Should we be asking:.... it says the sin will not be forgiven , ... it does not say we will be kept from heaven..... it says we will be in danger of eternal damnation. ... It does not say we will be sentenced to eternal damnation.I do not know the answers to these. I have always been troubled about this unforgivable sin , and hope to not be found guilty of it. Can a person receive salvation yet have an outstanding unforgiven sin ? I have a hard time accepting that one. I understand there is no punishment in heaven , but there is a loss of rewards for some. Who knows.What troubles me is if an unsaved person who is deep into witchcraft performs a miracle or a healing , my first thought would be they are working with evil powers. I would want to attribute it to Satan. Would I be blaspheming?Jesus said Satan cannot be divided against Satan , thus he posseses no healing powers. How then does the miracle take place ? Is it The Holy Spirit ? I would not think so.I think my point is , when seeming miracles happen outside of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ , I "have no comment" just to be on the safe side so I do not possibly blaspheme The Holy Spirit.Wish I knew the answers , In the meantime I do not dwell on it much , I just try to be "really carefull" what I say about such matters.Any comments will be appreciated.ThanksArnie M.
(arniem;43965)
Blasphemy can be forgivenBlasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.Matthew 12 seem to indicate that attributing Jesus' miraculous healing power as coming from Satan and his workers is the blasphemy of The Holy spirit.Should we be asking:.... it says the sin will not be forgiven , ... it does not say we will be kept from heaven..... it says we will be in danger of eternal damnation. ... It does not say we will be sentenced to eternal damnation.I do not know the answers to these. I have always been troubled about this unforgivable sin , and hope to not be found guilty of it. Can a person receive salvation yet have an outstanding unforgiven sin ? I have a hard time accepting that one. I understand there is no punishment in heaven , but there is a loss of rewards for some. Who knows.What troubles me is if an unsaved person who is deep into witchcraft performs a miracle or a healing , my first thought would be they are working with evil powers. I would want to attribute it to Satan. Would I be blaspheming?Jesus said Satan cannot be divided against Satan , thus he posseses no healing powers. How then does the miracle take place ? Is it The Holy Spirit ? I would not think so.I think my point is , when seeming miracles happen outside of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ , I "have no comment" just to be on the safe side so I do not possibly blaspheme The Holy Spirit.Wish I knew the answers , In the meantime I do not dwell on it much , I just try to be "really carefull" what I say about such matters.Any comments will be appreciated.ThanksArnie M.
Very well put, as most of your post i have read has been. Plus I sense a note of loving patience in your words. I too am careful to judge what is of God and what is not. I have been guilty of questioning some things in churches and wondering if they were of God. But just because the Holy Spirit does not move as I have been taught; does not mean it is not of God.
Blasphemy can be forgivenBlasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.Matthew 12 seem to indicate that attributing Jesus' miraculous healing power as coming from Satan and his workers is the blasphemy of The Holy spirit.Should we be asking:.... it says the sin will not be forgiven , ... it does not say we will be kept from heaven..... it says we will be in danger of eternal damnation. ... It does not say we will be sentenced to eternal damnation.I do not know the answers to these. I have always been troubled about this unforgivable sin , and hope to not be found guilty of it. Can a person receive salvation yet have an outstanding unforgiven sin ? I have a hard time accepting that one. I understand there is no punishment in heaven , but there is a loss of rewards for some. Who knows.What troubles me is if an unsaved person who is deep into witchcraft performs a miracle or a healing , my first thought would be they are working with evil powers. I would want to attribute it to Satan. Would I be blaspheming?Jesus said Satan cannot be divided against Satan , thus he posseses no healing powers. How then does the miracle take place ? Is it The Holy Spirit ? I would not think so.I think my point is , when seeming miracles happen outside of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ , I "have no comment" just to be on the safe side so I do not possibly blaspheme The Holy Spirit.Wish I knew the answers , In the meantime I do not dwell on it much , I just try to be "really carefull" what I say about such matters.Any comments will be appreciated.ThanksArnie M.
Very well put, as most of your post i have read has been. Plus I sense a note of loving patience in your words. I too am careful to judge what is of God and what is not. I have been guilty of questioning some things in churches and wondering if they were of God. But just because the Holy Spirit does not move as I have been taught; does not mean it is not of God.
I am going to change my tune a bit.I just re-read Matthew 12 again and Jesus was specifically casting a demon out and that was what the pharasees claimed was done by Satan. The healing of the man was an after effect from removing the demon.In summary , I think blasphemey of The Holy Spirit is applicable only when a demon is being cast out of a person. It is at that time we must not attribute it to anything but the working of the Holy Spirit.To do otherwise would be blasphemy (Of The Holy Spirit)Anyone agree?Many thanksArnie
(kriss;43946)
Well I was using it as a question because you do not seem to get it I didnt imply ignorance I just dont understand what part of that statement you not getting All Men will be forgiven all forms of blasphemy how much clearer can God make it how can I write so you get the wordsan unbeliever can not blasphmey what they dont have (the Holy spirit) a christian would never intentionally do it So you are saying you believe a Christian believer can accently commit a sin of blasphemy so serious they get the same penalty as Satan if that is you belief fine. call it what ever you like then every christain is at risk of getting the same penalty as Satan if that makes sense to you call it want ..........................................but if one wants to know what scipture says this is a future event that will happen and God only speaks of one future event when God speaks through the Elect and thats Mark 13 and it is the only time the unforgivable sin can be comitted because its the only other time Gods spirit speaks through us as he did the first time to the aspostles. I doubt this will ever happen but God fore warns us of all things
I think arniem answered most of these. But if you will notice it was the pharisees that were blaspheming the Holy Ghost. (Mark 3:30) They were unbelievers!All sin EXCEPT blaspheme the Holy Spirit. THIS I GETAlso you did not mention the greek word in both Mark 12:36 and Matt 10:20???
Well I was using it as a question because you do not seem to get it I didnt imply ignorance I just dont understand what part of that statement you not getting All Men will be forgiven all forms of blasphemy how much clearer can God make it how can I write so you get the wordsan unbeliever can not blasphmey what they dont have (the Holy spirit) a christian would never intentionally do it So you are saying you believe a Christian believer can accently commit a sin of blasphemy so serious they get the same penalty as Satan if that is you belief fine. call it what ever you like then every christain is at risk of getting the same penalty as Satan if that makes sense to you call it want ..........................................but if one wants to know what scipture says this is a future event that will happen and God only speaks of one future event when God speaks through the Elect and thats Mark 13 and it is the only time the unforgivable sin can be comitted because its the only other time Gods spirit speaks through us as he did the first time to the aspostles. I doubt this will ever happen but God fore warns us of all things
I think arniem answered most of these. But if you will notice it was the pharisees that were blaspheming the Holy Ghost. (Mark 3:30) They were unbelievers!All sin EXCEPT blaspheme the Holy Spirit. THIS I GETAlso you did not mention the greek word in both Mark 12:36 and Matt 10:20???
(arniem;43968)
I am going to change my tune a bit.I just re-read Matthew 12 again and Jesus was specifically casting a demon out and that was what the pharasees claimed was done by Satan. The healing of the man was an after effect from removing the demon.In summary , I think blasphemey of The Holy Spirit is applicable only when a demon is being cast out of a person. It is at that time we must not attribute it to anything but the working of the Holy Spirit.To do otherwise would be blasphemy (Of The Holy Spirit)Anyone agree?Many thanksArnie
So are you saying a saved person can commit this sin?
I am going to change my tune a bit.I just re-read Matthew 12 again and Jesus was specifically casting a demon out and that was what the pharasees claimed was done by Satan. The healing of the man was an after effect from removing the demon.In summary , I think blasphemey of The Holy Spirit is applicable only when a demon is being cast out of a person. It is at that time we must not attribute it to anything but the working of the Holy Spirit.To do otherwise would be blasphemy (Of The Holy Spirit)Anyone agree?Many thanksArnie
So are you saying a saved person can commit this sin?
ONLY WHEN A DEMON IS BEING CAST OUT............................ ... . ...............................does the issue of Blasphemy become possible. After 22 years as a Christian I just now "got it" Funny how that happens some times. I had misread this verse until today. I am humbled and thankful.Does everyone agree that we would have to be at an excorcism , or in a situation where a demon was being cast out of a person to be able to blaspheme The Holy Spirit ?? (by attributing it to Satan)
(setfree;43971)
So are you saying a saved person can commit this sin?
I think it would be extremely unlikely.After a succesfull excorcism a saved person would have to declare the demon was cast out by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. (ie: Satan and his workers)I suppose it could be possible , however I would have difficulty thinking a Christian could do it .Arnie M.
So are you saying a saved person can commit this sin?
I think it would be extremely unlikely.After a succesfull excorcism a saved person would have to declare the demon was cast out by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. (ie: Satan and his workers)I suppose it could be possible , however I would have difficulty thinking a Christian could do it .Arnie M.
Could it also be said that the pharisees were claiming the Jesus was not God's Son by blasphemy? They were denying the power of God and claiming it to be that of Satan.
1.First of all an unbeliever can not commit blasphemy against what they do not have that is the Holy spirit 2. We are under grace all sin are forgiven all men 3. the penality is eternal damnation Only one has received that penailty Satan most serious sin one can receive4. Sense no one is judged yet this is a futer event 5. So why dont you tell me a time in the future when the Holy spirit will come andsomeone as written6.Mark 13 says this will happen to the elect one time in the future7. its like addin1+1+=3 IF........ you guys believe unbeilievs receive the holy spirit or this can happen to unknowing Christains go ahead Excuse me for tring to teach you scripture believe what ever you think Im sure you can come with a false reason you can agree on
(setfree;43974)
Could it also be said that the pharisees were claiming the Jesus was not God's Son by blasphemy? They were denying the power of God and claiming it to be that of Satan.
Had to think about that for a minute. I think you are right , the Pharasees trying to discredit Jesus (as being God's Son) was part of the blasphemy.You didnt quite say this but you are hinting that to deny Jesus Christ and Him being God's Son would be blasphemy in itself.I wouldnt go quite that far , but in a way it amounts to the same thing. To deny Christ would result in all sins being unforgiveable and the end result would be the same.Deep question . Good question.Sorry if I am putting words in your mouth ... but were you thinking what I thought you were thinking .... whew !!!... this topic stretches the mind...
Could it also be said that the pharisees were claiming the Jesus was not God's Son by blasphemy? They were denying the power of God and claiming it to be that of Satan.
Had to think about that for a minute. I think you are right , the Pharasees trying to discredit Jesus (as being God's Son) was part of the blasphemy.You didnt quite say this but you are hinting that to deny Jesus Christ and Him being God's Son would be blasphemy in itself.I wouldnt go quite that far , but in a way it amounts to the same thing. To deny Christ would result in all sins being unforgiveable and the end result would be the same.Deep question . Good question.Sorry if I am putting words in your mouth ... but were you thinking what I thought you were thinking .... whew !!!... this topic stretches the mind...
(arniem;43976)
Had to think about that for a minute. I think you are right , the Pharasees trying to discredit Jesus (as being God's Son) was part of the blasphemy.You didnt quite say this but you are hinting that to deny Jesus Christ and Him being God's Son would be blasphemy in itself.I wouldnt go quite that far , but in a way it amounts to the same thing. To deny Christ would result in all sins being unforgiveable and the end result would be the same.Deep question . Good question.Sorry if I am putting words in your mouth ... but were you thinking what I thought you were thinking .... whew !!!... this topic stretches the mind...
Yes! This is along the line that I was thinking. It is the only was I can understand this sin and it not contradict other scriptures.
Had to think about that for a minute. I think you are right , the Pharasees trying to discredit Jesus (as being God's Son) was part of the blasphemy.You didnt quite say this but you are hinting that to deny Jesus Christ and Him being God's Son would be blasphemy in itself.I wouldnt go quite that far , but in a way it amounts to the same thing. To deny Christ would result in all sins being unforgiveable and the end result would be the same.Deep question . Good question.Sorry if I am putting words in your mouth ... but were you thinking what I thought you were thinking .... whew !!!... this topic stretches the mind...
Yes! This is along the line that I was thinking. It is the only was I can understand this sin and it not contradict other scriptures.
(setfree;43938)
I agree that the Elect will be delivered to the synagogues. I believe it happen to the disciples and it will happen again at the end times.I also agree that the Holy Spirit will speak through them.But again this is not tied to the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Because Blashemy means-slander, you speak against the name or power. No where in these passages does it say that the ones delivered up will denounce God or the Holy Spirit. It simply says not to worry what to say that the Holy Spirit will be there to guide you or speak through you..
God plainly says he will speak through them they are not to premeditate I said if they deny this because they still hacve free will they will have committed the unforgivable sinI also said I doubt it would happen but God fore warns them of the penalitythats would be the unforgivable sin.
I agree that the Elect will be delivered to the synagogues. I believe it happen to the disciples and it will happen again at the end times.I also agree that the Holy Spirit will speak through them.But again this is not tied to the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Because Blashemy means-slander, you speak against the name or power. No where in these passages does it say that the ones delivered up will denounce God or the Holy Spirit. It simply says not to worry what to say that the Holy Spirit will be there to guide you or speak through you..
God plainly says he will speak through them they are not to premeditate I said if they deny this because they still hacve free will they will have committed the unforgivable sinI also said I doubt it would happen but God fore warns them of the penalitythats would be the unforgivable sin.
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