Is the Great Commission for today

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SealedEternal

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Jan 6, 2008
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(RichardBurger;51236)
The scriptures say;9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.I gather by all the replies that this scripture doesn't mean anything. Certainly it does not mean what it says and must be interpreted for us to be able to see what it means. -- But in any case they broke their agreements.What foolishness.Richard
So they agreed that Paul would be commissioned to make disciples of all the gentile nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that Christ commanded them, and James, Cephas, and John were commissioned to make disciples of the Jews, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that Christ commanded them. What point are you trying to make?SealedEternal
 

winsome

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Feb 15, 2008
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There is no need for me to try and plug the holes you say exist because you would only continue to say it.Richard
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There is a need for you to plug the holes because they destroy your theory.Lets go through this and then I will show you what interpretation of Gal 2:9 makes sense.You say that Paul was given one gospel to take to the gentiles and Peter was given a different one to take to the Jews. But then you need to explain the following:1. Paul did not go to the gentiles first, but as I showed he consistently went to the Jews first. Why would he do that if his gospel was for the gentiles only? 2. When he went to the Jews did he preach Peters gospel or his own? If he preached his own why was he preaching a gentile gospel to Jews?3. If he preached different gospels to different groups what happened with mixed groups?4. What about “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”5. Why would he go to the gentiles alone when it was God’s plan for him to go to both gentiles and Jews?“Go, for he [Paul] is an instrument whom I have chosen to bring my name before Gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel [i.e. Jews];”(Acts 9:15)6. If Peter was to go only to Jews why did God command him to go to the gentile Cornelius?7. Whose gospel was preached to the gentiles in the 10 years before Paul started preaching, for example in Antioch and Rome?8. If the gentiles were meant to have a different gospel to Peters why would God allow Peter’s gospel to be taken to many different lands by those converted at Pentecost (see my earlier post).Gal 2:9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.This text makes sense if you interpret it, not in terms of ethnicity, but nations or lands. So Paul would go travelling in gentile lands (outside Israel) and Peter concentrate on Israel.Then everything fits. There is one gospel for all. Paul takes it to both Jews and gentiles in the gentile lands and Peter to the Jews and gentiles in Israel.And it makes sense for Paul to be the travelling one:- he was a Roman citizen so he had some standing and protection by the civil authorities- he had good credentials as a Jew; a Pharisee, a student of the Law under Gamaleil. It would make him welcome in any synagogue- his Greek would have been excellent; much more acceptable than Peter’s with his Galiean accent.There is one Lord, one, faith, one baptism – and one gospel for all.
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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winsome: I know I am wasting my time. Your lack of understanding God’s purpose in the salvation of mankind is shown by the questions you have asked.1. Paul did not go to the gentiles first, but as I showed he consistently went to the Jews first. Why would he do that if his gospel was for the gentiles only?My Answer: Not always, and as a matter of fact in Acts 28:23-31 NKJV23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.24 And some were persuaded by the things which were spoken, and some disbelieved.25 So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: "The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers,26 saying, -- 'Go to this people and say: 'Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand;And seeing you will see, and not perceive; 27 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."'28 "Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!"29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves.30 Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him,31 preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him.2. When he went to the Jews did he preach Peters gospel or his own? If he preached his own why was he preaching a gentile gospel to Jews?My Answer: Because the new gospel of God’s grace is for all people. You asked whose gospel he preached. According to the scriptures it was a gospel “HIDDEN IN GOD AND REVEALED TO HIM.”Eph 3:8-11 NKJV8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;10 to the intent that “”””now”””” the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,Notice that in Acts 3:21 Peter is proclaiming things made known by the prophets since the world began. In contrast, in the book of Romans, 16:25, Paul is proclaiming things kept secret since the world began. Something made known cannot be a secret and something kept secret has not been made known. Notice that Peter proclaimed the crucifixion of Jesus as something for the Jews to repent of (Acts 2) where Paul proclaimed that he gloried in the cross of Christ (Gal 6:11-15). Clearly, Peter and Paul proclaimed two different messages.3. If he preached different gospels to different groups what happened with mixed groups?My answer: For 40-years (until 70 AD) after the crucifixion of Jesus, the Jews had the opportunity to accept Jesus as their king. If Jesus had setup His kingdom on this earth the Gentiles would be saved through the Jews by becoming Jews. During this time their was a transition from Law to Grace.4. What about “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”My answer: one Lord = Jesus Christ, one faith = in the works of God, one baptism = Jesus’ baptism into death on the cross.Luke 12:49-50 NKJV49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!Since the Holy Spirit places us “in Christ” we participate in His death (baptism).5. Why would he go to the gentiles alone when it was God’s plan for him to go to both gentiles and Jews?“Go, for he [Paul] is an instrument whom I have chosen to bring my name before Gentiles and kings and before the people of Israel [i.e. Jews];”(Acts 9:15)My answer: The gospel of God’s grace given to Paul is founded on Jesus’ work on the cross, and in this dispensation it is for all people.6. If Peter was to go only to Jews why did God command him to go to the gentile Cornelius?My answer: God said to Abraham, “I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you (Speaking of Israel) . The scriptures tell us that Cornelius was a blessing to Israel. It is wrong to assume that Cornelius was not being made a Jewish proselyte that would keep the Law of Moses.7. Whose gospel was preached to the gentiles in the 10 years before Paul started preaching, for example in Antioch and Rome?My answer: It was always possible for a Gentile to become a Jewish proselyte.8. If the gentiles were meant to have a different gospel to Peters why would God allow Peter’s gospel to be taken to many different lands by those converted at Pentecost (see my earlier post).My answer: The nation of Israel was to be a light for the world. They were to start in Jerusalem and then go into the rest of the world. -- However, they couldn’t convince the Jews in Jerusalem to accept Jesus so how could they convert the world. Show me where you find that Peter’s gospel was taken to the rest of the world. --- Do you remember the Judaisers that were always trying to get the Gentiles to go under the law of Moses? Well they didn't just go away. We have a blend of their doctrine in with grace today. You know, faith plus works of the Law.I know I have wasted my time because you are not going to accept anything I wrote. But I tried.Richard
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RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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(SealedEternal;51271)
So they agreed that Paul would be commissioned to make disciples of all the gentile nations, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that Christ commanded them, and James, Cephas, and John were commissioned to make disciples of the Jews, immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that Christ commanded them. What point are you trying to make?SealedEternal
If you understood what was going on in Acts 21:20 you would know that Paul was teaching the gospel of God's grace to both the Jews and the Gentiles but the Jewish believers didn't like it because they were zealous for the Law of Moses. Looks like James and the Elders were still teaching the Law to them.Richard
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